The essence of Libertarianism is...

[SheWolf]

Well, that depends on how you define "libertarian" and "communitarian" doesn't it?

The big-L and small-l distinction is made even by most members of the Libertarian party. A left-libertarian is not a Libertarian, but is still a libertarian by definition. And I certainly think much of the geolibertarian philosophy of real-property ownership is communitarian by anyone's definition.

There is also the mini-anarchists...

 

[TurtleDude]

Come on. You claimed all liberals were parasites. Are you lecturing me on overgenerlization? If you need an example of Republican insanity, look at Iowa where they are trying to remove judges for allowing same sex marriage in the state.



Liberals pay taxes like everyone else.

I said they tend towards being reactionary parasitic statists. and current leftwing though in america in involves more government and more income redistribution which is statist and parasitic

47% of americans pay no income tax-their voting patterns are hard to prove but the Dems tend to win among the lowest income groups

 

[Guy Incognito]

No you wouldn't. If you aren't helping your community now, then that is indicative that you don't have the feelings of obligation and commitment that drive people who do. Blaming time and opportunity is a copout for a lack of motivation that is derived from not being socialized to value helping the community.

That's pretty harsh. Although what you say might be true, it is also entirely possible that somebody might want to help out in the community but not have enough time. I think our fellow forum goers deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[CriticalThought]

47% of americans pay no income tax-their voting patterns are hard to prove but the Dems tend to win among the lowest income groups

I would like to see some evidence of that.

 

[CriticalThought]

That's pretty harsh. Although what you say might be true, it is also entirely possible that somebody might want to help out in the community but not have enough time. I think our fellow forum goers deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I've watched people who have kids, have a full time job, and are going to school, and they still find time to help in the community. When someone says they don't have time or opportunity, they almost always mean they don't want to commit energy to it. The people who value community service get energy from community service whereas those who don't find it to be an energy drain.

 

[SheWolf]

No you wouldn't. If you aren't helping your community now, then that is indicative that you don't have the feelings of obligation and commitment that drive people who do. Blaming time and opportunity is a copout for a lack of motivation that is derived from not being socialized to value helping the community.

I actually have plans to start doing more work and helping more organizations... I am actually in the process of planning projects and I have already committed my future resources.. so much for making assumptions about me.

 

[Guy Incognito]

socialist redistribution of wealth is not a valid concept of libertarianism nor is "freedom" that requires others to fund it

That's exactly right, I agree with this 100%. So why do so-called libertarians support corporate tort liability shields that protect the wealthy from the actions of the corporations they own? Modern day robber-barons never have to pay what they owe to the people their businesses have injured, thanks to this pernicious form of government-backed protectionism.

If the government stopped protecting business, then we might see a real free market in action-- one where the legal fiction of a "corporation" doesn't exist, and the people doing business are the ones held responsible for the injuries caused by the business. Imagine that, a marketplace with real accountability. It would look very different.

This is just one of hundreds of reasons why right-libertarians are phony libertarians.

 

[TurtleDude]

I would like to see some evidence of that.

dems have always won the majority of HS dropout votes

 

[CriticalThought]

I actually have plans to start doing more work and helping more organizations... I am actually in the process of planning projects and I have already committed my future resources.. so much for making assumptions about me.

Planning projects and commiting resources eh? Thinking and doing are two entirely diffferent things. I could plan an exercise routine and buy a ton of weights, but it doesn't mean I'll follow through on it.

Good luck though. I love being proven wrong.

 

[Kushinator]

remind me the proof behind your claim about central planning being preferred etc

Is firm organization planned centrally, or through market forces, e.g. is each individual acting on the behalf of themselves? Intra-firm central planning is the norm, please do try and keep up.

 

[CriticalThought]

dems have always won the majority of HS dropout votes

Where is the evidence for these claims?

 

[SheWolf]

I've watched people who have kids, have a full time job, and are going to school, and they still find time to help in the community. When someone says they don't have time or opportunity, they almost always mean they don't want to commit energy to it. The people who value community service get energy from community service whereas those who don't find it to be an energy drain.

I was trying to say, if I had more time and resources to offer I would.. not that I have no time or resources to offer. I am not Oprah. I can't give millions of dollars that I don't have... but if I had millions I would give more. I wish I could change the world.. haha. But seriously, there are certain issues that are close to my heart that I really wish I could do more about. I think somethings take time, research, and patience.. IDK.

 

[TurtleDude]

Is firm organization planned centrally, or through market forces, e.g. is each individual acting on the behalf of themselves? Intra-firm central planning is the norm, please do try and keep up.

I really tire of that crap about keeping up when its evasion
What proof do you have of your claim?

 

[CriticalThought]

I was trying to say, if I had more time and resources to offer I would.. not that I have no time or resources to offer. I am not Oprah. I can't give millions of dollars that I don't have... but if I had millions I would give more. I wish I could change the world.. haha. But seriously, there are certain issues that are close to my heart that I really wish I could do more about. I think somethings take time, research, and patience.. IDK.

I'm not attacking ya, just pointing out a few realities. Those who have not engaged in community service are not likely to engage in community service. The people who do either have something personal at stake or they have been socialized to value it.

 

[Gabriel]

a rather erroneous view of libertarians

It was a contextual statement.

 

[SheWolf]

I'm not attacking ya, just pointing out a few realities. Those who have not engaged in community service are not likely to engage in community service. The people who do either have something personal at stake or they have been socialized to value it.

I have engaged in community service before.. I have a lot passion for the issues I try to help my community and others with.

 

[TurtleDude]

Where is the evidence for these claims?

do you disagree or are you trying to derail things because that fact is inconvenient to your position

 

[CriticalThought]

do you disagree or are you trying to derail things because that fact is inconvenient to your position

It could be true, or it could not be true. How am I suppose to know without any evidence?

 

[SheWolf]

do you disagree or are you trying to derail things because that fact is inconvenient to your position

He is just asking for evidence.. probably so he can form an intellectual opinion. If you don't offer it, it makes you look like you're derailing or being inconvenienced. I personally don't think a democrat/liberal would care about the fact, because they like to say they are for "the little guy."

 

[TurtleDude]

It could be true, or it could not be true. How am I suppose to know without any evidence?

G O O G L E-try it

but you see I have been debating stuff for years and I know what the evidence is-I don't spend alot of time looking for links of stuff I know is true

its one of those facts anyone who argues about voting patterns in the USA knows

 

[Kushinator]

I really tire of that crap about keeping up when its evasion
What proof do you have of your claim?

Please refer to the principal agent problem that exists within the majority of all private firm structure (except for the extremely small firms where the owners are the workers).

It seems to me you have no means of understanding firm behavior, which will severely limit your analysis. rof

 

[CriticalThought]

G O O G L E-try it

but you see I have been debating stuff for years and I know what the evidence is-I don't spend alot of time looking for links of stuff I know is true

its one of those facts anyone who argues about voting patterns in the USA knows

I generally expect people who make such arguments to provide the evidence to support them. It's called, "burden of proof".

For example I read statistics like these...

As evidence, Mr. Wolfe points to a new poll by Washington Post/ABC News that found that white people without a college degree favor John McCain, the Republican candidate, by 17 percentage points, while those with a college degree prefer Barack Obama, the Democratic candidate, by 9 percentage points.

And they kinda go counter to what you suggest.

And of course other stats like these...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106381/obama-education-gap-extends-general-election.aspx

So I'm struggling to find evidence to support what you suggest.

 

[SheWolf]

G O O G L E-try it

but you see I have been debating stuff for years and I know what the evidence is-I don't spend alot of time looking for links of stuff I know is true

its one of those facts anyone who argues about voting patterns in the USA knows

:2no4:

It's like I said before..

Looks like you are derailing and being inconvenienced..

:2brickwal

 

[SheWolf]

I generally expect people who make such arguments to provide the evidence to support them. It's called, "burden of proof".

For example I read statistics like these...



And they kinda go counter to what you suggest.

And of course other stats like these...

Obama Education Gap Extends to General Election

So I'm struggling to find evidence to support what you suggest.

Haha.

I do remember how Obama was winning all the college areas in the dem primary.. he won Washington state and Oregon, and the all the college towns and academic types. Hillary was getting the rest.. like the blue collar workers

 

[TurtleDude]

I generally expect people who make such arguments to provide the evidence to support them. It's called, "burden of proof".

For example I read statistics like these...



And they kinda go counter to what you suggest.

And of course other stats like these...

Obama Education Gap Extends to General Election

So I'm struggling to find evidence to support what you suggest.

this is a chat board-I see all sorts of assertions that have no backing proof-in many cases the arguments are sound since I take "judicial notice" of the facts

that has HS and less not HS Dropouts