The essence of Libertarianism is...

[TurtleDude]

You're just demonstrating Technocratic's point that Libertarians have a naive understanding of the way the world works and human nature, because that analogy makes no sense. Is the dog supposed to be the wealthy people that the "fleas" are just sponging off of? If you really understood how to world worked, you'd realize that the rich people in your above analogy aren't the dog, they're just especially fat fleas who like to keep all the blood to themselves.

you are the one who claims to be the libertarian. Why do you call yourself something you are not? I note this board has several fake libertarians who are essentially communitarians.

 

[TurtleDude]

You're just demonstrating Technocratic's point that Libertarians have a naive understanding of the way the world works and human nature, because that analogy makes no sense. Is the dog supposed to be the wealthy people that the "fleas" are just sponging off of? If you really understood how to world worked, you'd realize that the rich people in your above analogy aren't the dog, they're just especially fat fleas who like to keep all the blood to themselves.

I have never met a real libertarian who is envious of the rich either. Those who fail spend alot of time blaming those who succeed for their lack of achievement. its rather common but has no real validity as an argument against the system

 

[VanceMack]

All humans are happy sunshine good people and they would never try to f*** me over or break any moral rules or standards.

Dont be silly.

It is...I can take care of mine, and I may choose to take care of others, and I damn sure dont need a federal government to tell me and my community what to do. And I recognize that sometimes people are evil vile assholes...and dont worry...Ive got that covered as well.

 

[Kushinator]

socialist redistribution of wealth is not a valid concept of libertarianism nor is "freedom" that requires others to fund it

You miss the point (not the least bit surprising). The why do firms have a preference to central planning as opposed to contracting individuals to specialize?

 

[Guy Incognito]

you are the one who claims to be the libertarian. Why do you call yourself something you are not? I note this board has several fake libertarians who are essentially communitarians.

What does this have to do with what I call myself? Aside from deflecting from the fact that you cannot address my real point, that is.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I have never met a real libertarian who is envious of the rich either. Those who fail spend alot of time blaming those who succeed for their lack of achievement. its rather common but has no real validity as an argument against the system

This has nothing to do with envy, and I would suggest that your repeated characterization of those who disagree with you as "envious" is merely a projection of your own psyche. As for the validity of a system, that is determined by the justice of the system.

 

[TurtleDude]

You miss the point (not the least bit surprising). The why do firms have a preference to central planning as opposed to contracting individuals to specialize?

I didn't miss anything

try again-your rant is not responsive to my point

 

[TurtleDude]

This has nothing to do with envy, and I would suggest that your repeated characterization of those who disagree with you as "envious" is merely a projection of your own psyche. As for the validity of a system, that is determined by the justice of the system.

disagree all you want-just don't pretend that your position is one of pro freedom or libertarian. You are a communitarian rather than a libertarian-a point that others have noted. You never agree with the real libertarians on this board. Maybe you are a contrarian but not a libertarian

 

[Guy Incognito]

disagree all you want-just don't pretend that your position is one of pro freedom or libertarian. You are a communitarian rather than a libertarian-a point that others have noted. You never agree with the real libertarians on this board. Maybe you are a contrarian but not a libertarian

I'd argue I'm much more of a "real" libertarian than you are, TD. I'm certainly no member of the Libertarian party, but I decided some time ago not to let Republicans-in-libertarian-clothing continue to get away with dragging my cherished political philosophy through the mud. Corporatist-libertarians have betrayed the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism, namely personal liberty. I don't recognize the invalid system of right-wing-libertarianism, but I am still very much a libertarian.

To claim that anyone who is "communitarian" isn't a "real" libertarian is either ignorant or intellectual dishonest. There are serious logical contradictions in the right-libertarian account of property rights. Some of us love liberty but can't stand the glaring illogic of right wing co-opted "Libertarians."

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you have a point?

:lol:

If this is the best response you can muster, it seems I have a very good point.

 

[TurtleDude]

I'd argue I'm much more of a "real" libertarian than you are, TD. I'm certainly no member of the Libertarian party, but I decided some time ago not to let Republicans-in-libertarian-clothing continue to get away with dragging my cherished political philosophy through the mud. Corporatist-libertarians have betrayed the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism, namely personal liberty. I don't recognize the invalid system of right-wing-libertarianism, but I am still very much a libertarian.

To claim that anyone who is "communitarian" isn't a "real" libertarian is either ignorant or intellectual dishonest. There are serious logical contradictions in the right-libertarian account of property rights. Some of us love liberty but can't stand the glaring illogic of right wing co-opted "Libertarians."

A communitarian is not a libertarian. I am sure of that.

 

[Guy Incognito]

A communitarian is not a libertarian. I am sure of that.

You wanna bet?

 

[TurtleDude]

You wanna bet?

leftwing libertarianism is not "libertarianism" as most people define it

and its certainly not communitarianism

 

[Guy Incognito]

leftwing libertarianism is not "libertarianism" as most people define it

and its certainly not communitarianism

Well, that depends on how you define "libertarian" and "communitarian" doesn't it?

The big-L and small-l distinction is made even by most members of the Libertarian party. A left-libertarian is not a Libertarian, but is still a libertarian by definition. And I certainly think much of the geolibertarian philosophy of real-property ownership is communitarian by anyone's definition.

 

[Kushinator]

I didn't miss anything

try again-your rant is not responsive to my point

Maybe you should try again, as you were the one responding to my point. Why do firms prefer central planning?

 

[TurtleDude]

Maybe you should try again, as you were the one responding to my point. Why do firms prefer central planning?

remind me the proof behind your claim about central planning being preferred etc

 

[CriticalThought]

leftwing libertarianism is not "libertarianism" as most people define it

and its certainly not communitarianism

Americanization of political terms causes all sorts of confustion.

In America, a libertarian is someone in the right wing who favors limited government. In the rest of the world, a libertarian is someone in the left wing who favors limited government. In fact, I believe most of the early libertarians were anarcho communists.

In America, a liberal is someone in the left wing who favors a paternal government. In the rest of the world, a liberal tends to be someone in the right wing who favors limited government.

Anyways, that is the rule of thumb I use.

Also, in a strange twist of reason. Republicans favor democratic government and Democrats favor republic government.

Whoever is in charge of naming political movements in our country needs to be fired.

 

[TurtleDude]

Americanization of political terms causes all sorts of confustion.

In America, a libertarian is someone in the right wing who favors limited government. In the rest of the world, a libertarian is someone in the left wing who favors limited government. In fact, I believe most of the early libertarians were anarcho communists.

In America, a liberal is someone in the left wing who favors a paternal government. In the rest of the world, a liberal tends to be someone in the right wing who favors limited government.

Also, in a strange twist of reason. Republicans favor democratic government and Democrats favor republic government.

Whoever is in charge of naming political movements in our country needs to be fired.

I don't know too many Republicans who want a pure democracy

we like constitutional limitations on mob rule

and current libertarians are classic liberals

current liberals tend to be reactionary parasitic statists.:mrgreen:

 

[CriticalThought]

I don't know too many Republicans who want a pure democracy

Here let me give you a taste. "Those damn activist judges overturning the will of the people!"

Most Republicans don't even understand the checks and balances of the government.

we like constitutional limitations on mob rule

Um...really?

and current libertarians are classic liberals

In the US, yes. Although in fairness, libertarianism is simply the premise of limited government involvement and realistically could be applied to left or right.

current liberals tend to be reactionary parasitic statists.:mrgreen:

Parasite imples that they contribute nothing. While in some cases that is true, I challenge you to prove it true for all liberals.

 

[SheWolf]

The essence is really "I have got mine, screw you. Oops, I screwed up, help me now." There are no Libertarians in a crisis. They're often the first ones who cry "where's the gubberment" when the sh*t hits the fan. Only, there is no gubberment anymore, because they killed it. Oops.

Libertarians have a very optimistic, naive understanding of how the world works and human nature.

I have a realistic and practical understanding about how human nature works.. however, most people have an optimistic view of how government works and that is in my way. No, it's in our way.

I am not a selfish person.. far from it. If I had more time and opportunity, I would be helping my community more than I am.

 

[TurtleDude]

Here let me give you a taste. "Those damn activist judges overturning the will of the people!"

Most Republicans don't even understand the checks and balances of the government.



Um...really?



In the US, yes. Although in fairness, libertarianism is simply the premise of limited government involvement and realistically could be applied to left or right.



Parasite imples that they contribute nothing. While in some cases that is true, I challenge you to prove it true for all liberals.

when you make claims like MOST REPUBLICANS you have set yourself up for failure because you cannot possibly prove your claim

a parasite is one who takes from another without benefiting the host. They might benefit someone or something else

 

[CriticalThought]

I am not a selfish person.. far from it. If I had more time and opportunity, I would be helping my community more than I am.

No you wouldn't. If you aren't helping your community now, then that is indicative that you don't have the feelings of obligation and commitment that drive people who do. Blaming time and opportunity is a copout for a lack of motivation that is derived from not being socialized to value helping the community.

 

[Gabriel]

"LEAVE ME ALONE."

Therefore, libertarianism is the antithesis of zealotry.

Libertarians don't live in a group of people or communities they are islands unto themselves. In no way to people benefit from living together and working together.

Hermits? or just want to be anarchist?

 

[CriticalThought]

when you make claims like MOST REPUBLICANS you have set yourself up for failure because you cannot possibly prove your claim

Come on. You claimed all liberals were parasites. Are you lecturing me on overgenerlization? If you need an example of Republican insanity, look at Iowa where they are trying to remove judges for allowing same sex marriage in the state.

a parasite is one who takes from another without benefiting the host. They might benefit someone or something else

Liberals pay taxes like everyone else.

 

[TurtleDude]

Libertarians don't live in a group of people or communities they are islands unto themselves. In no way to people benefit from living together and working together.

Hermits? or just want to be anarchist?

a rather erroneous view of libertarians