That Awkward Moment When The Tea Party Rally Gets Overtly Racist [W:219]

[notquiteright]

"That Awkward Moment When The Tea Party Rally Gets Overtly Racist" That Useless Thread When One Fool Tries To Paint An Entire Decentralized Political Movement With The Same Brush As Isolated Racists Being Racist.

That was the spin when the Tea Party tried to distance it'self from the 'fringe' sign makers who could be found at a disturbingly large number of rallies. "Why they is just a few kooks and we are weeding them out, no national leader believes any of that garbage"

Now there is a national leader using DNA of our Founders to oppose immigration reform, which is primarily dealing with Hispanics coming in and mixing it up.

Definiately awkward and not just a few poster carriers on the fringe.... eace

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

That was the spin when the Tea Party tried to distance it'self from the 'fringe' sign makers who could be found at a disturbingly large number of rallies. "Why they is just a few kooks and we are weeding them out, no national leader believes any of that garbage"

Now there is a national leader using DNA of our Founders to oppose immigration reform, which is primarily dealing with Hispanics coming in and mixing it up.

Definiately awkward and not just a few poster carriers on the fringe.... eace

You're missing the point -- it's the Tea Party movement, not the Tea Party. It is not one organization, it is a very loose confederation of many small like-minded organizations. It lacks a command structure, so its ability to weed anything out is extremely limited and it has no national leaders.

That's what makes it a threat not only to the Democrats, but also the Republicans. There have already been examples of how difficult it is for the Republicans to influence what they believe is a subset of their electorate.

 

[Paschendale]

I think if the main guy had used the term "nigger" several times as you claimed, you would have some evidence of that

What, like stopping to record him? I was at work. I finished my lunch and went back inside to continue working.

I'm not surprised at all by this reaction. The last time I brought this up, the mere fact that I am politically left leaning was used to say that I could not possibly have witnessed what I claim to have witnessed. It's kind of absurd that partisan hackery has lead people to not even believe what others see with their own eyes if it doesn't fit their side's narrative. That's the bubble.

The Right's argument these days is that the only racism that exists is the reverse kind--you know, racism that favors Blacks, Latinos, Gays, and everyone else except straight white males.

Which is, of course, complete nonsense. The few that actually believe that have never understood the privilege that they enjoy and think that losing some of it, having to play on equal footing to everyone, is actual discrimination.

 

[Conservative]

I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see how the usual tea party suspects on this forum are going to spin the "retrograde species" comments. I'm sure they'll come up with some unbelievable excuse.

Tea Party suspects? I wonder which side you would have been on at the Original Boston Tea Party?

There are racists on both sides but to ignore that reality is what people like you do best.

 

[TurtleDude]

What, like stopping to record him? I was at work. I finished my lunch and went back inside to continue working.

I'm not surprised at all by this reaction. The last time I brought this up, the mere fact that I am politically left leaning was used to say that I could not possibly have witnessed what I claim to have witnessed. It's kind of absurd that partisan hackery has lead people to not even believe what others see with their own eyes if it doesn't fit their side's narrative. That's the bubble.



Which is, of course, complete nonsense. The few that actually believe that have never understood the privilege that they enjoy and think that losing some of it, having to play on equal footing to everyone, is actual discrimination.

I call BS on both your claims. Equal footing is not what they want. They want superiority

 

[HelplessHoping]

True. I don't understand how someone could hear "nigger president" and think there was anything racist about that :shrug:

That isnt what was said. The truth is not EVERYTHING is racist, but some things are. Some are not so clear, but get labeled racist. Some people just see things as racist or percieve it from their point of view. Opinions are not facts. I believe that racism as an accusation requires proof.

 

[MarineTpartier]

He was decrying a bill that would permit millions of Hispanics to mingle and mix with the DNA of the Founding Fathers, n oh yeah MLK. The speech had a back drop, allowing Hispanics into the country is that back drop.

So those were his words or your takeaway from this? He actually said he doesn't want Hispanic DNA to mix with the DNA of the Founding Fathers and "oh yeah" MLK? Many times I've noticed that detractors of these groups (groups seen as extreme by the opposite like the TP or Occupy) will act as if they know what the person speaking is thinking. When they say something the suspicious listener automatically assumes the speaker meant the worst. Just making sure that isn't what's happening here.

I can't find the full speech anywhere, only the soundbite offered by HuffPo. Excuse me if I don't take their word for it. You know, that whole left leaning publication thing is in effect with them.

 

[HelplessHoping]

That was the spin when the Tea Party tried to distance it'self from the 'fringe' sign makers who could be found at a disturbingly large number of rallies. "Why they is just a few kooks and we are weeding them out, no national leader believes any of that garbage"

Definiately awkward and not just a few poster carriers on the fringe.... eace

To be fair, there are those on both sides of the fence that push the limits or completely leap over them. Many groups suffer from this. The only way to be free of nutbars is to vet each and every protester that shows up. I believe that it is POSSIBLE that a fringe element showed up. In actuality, you would have to have proof that those fringe were accepted members of the whole.

Most rallies I have attended have had fringe elements present. And though this is not a group pushing a political agenda, it is attempting to influence the law.

A peaceful protest of the Trayvon Martin verdict in Los Angeles unraveled into violence late Monday after a large group broke off and began smashing store windows, vandalizing cars and attacking bystanders, authorities said.

Read more:="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/n...urns-violent-article-1.1399750#ixzz2ZcBmYCcD"

So these 150 who splintered off part of the group or fringe? It happens on all sides...but I don't automatically blame the whole group.

 

[calamity]

I call BS on both your claims. Equal footing is not what they want. They want superiority

Prove it. Back up that nonsensical claim. Show some evidence.

 

[notquiteright]

You're missing the point -- it's the Tea Party movement, not the Tea Party. It is not one organization, it is a very loose confederation of many small like-minded organizations. It lacks a command structure, so its ability to weed anything out is extremely limited and it has no national leaders. That's what makes it a threat not only to the Democrats, but also the Republicans. There have already been examples of how difficult it is for the Republicans to influence what they believe is a subset of their electorate.

And I would have said the TP's are a rather well organized from behind the curtain group of many small and small minded organizations. There are national leaders, just not A national leader which is what 'conservatives' crave, sort of a one ring to bind us all thing.

When it comes to the Old School GOP, it is more the very real threat of a splintering of their movement if the TP's are not given what they demand- the social 'conservatives' are no longer content with lip service and a few bills that get shot down by the Supreme Court. The problem there is a solid majority of citizens isn't all warm and fuzzy over much of the social agenda the TPs insist on and many Citizens believe the DNA Dude speaks for far too many TPs.

If the TPs break away the GOP is doomed to wander in the wilderness for another 40 years with no guarantee they will every reach the Promiseland.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

And I would have said the TP's are a rather well organized from behind the curtain group of many small and small minded organizations. There are national leaders, just not A national leader which is what 'conservatives' crave, sort of a one ring to bind us all thing.

In other words, national leaders that can't really be pointed to because they work behind the scenes?

When it comes to the Old School GOP, it is more the very real threat of a splintering of their movement if the TP's are not given what they demand- the social 'conservatives' are no longer content with lip service and a few bills that get shot down by the Supreme Court. The problem there is a solid majority of citizens isn't all warm and fuzzy over much of the social agenda the TPs insist on and many Citizens believe the DNA Dude speaks for far too many TPs.

If the TPs break away the GOP is doomed to wander in the wilderness for another 40 years with no guarantee they will every reach the Promiseland.

Good, I'm sick of the 2-party monopoly. I can only hope something comes along to shatter the Democrats.

 

[notquiteright]

To be fair, there are those on both sides of the fence that push the limits or completely leap over them. Many groups suffer from this. The only way to be free of nutbars is to vet each and every protester that shows up. I believe that it is POSSIBLE that a fringe element showed up. In actuality, you would have to have proof that those fringe were accepted members of the whole. Most rallies I have attended have had fringe elements present. And though this is not a group pushing a political agenda, it is attempting to influence the law. So these 150 who splintered off part of the group or fringe? It happens on all sides...but I don't automatically blame the whole group.

I understand the strong desire to say 'they do it too' when confronted with this obvious example of a 'conservative' behaving badly. That does address the issue at hand, it is one thing for a few sign carriers to be dismissed as the fringe, a whole 'nother cat to skin when a national leader gets up and refers to DNA when talking immigration.

Have you attended a rally where the leader of a national TP organization gets up in front of Gawd and everyone to encourage us to keep our Founder's DNA safe?

 

[notquiteright]

In other words, national leaders that can't really be pointed to because they work behind the scenes? Good, I'm sick of the 2-party monopoly. I can only hope something comes along to shatter the Democrats.

The behind the scenes guys are rather well known, some even smile and wave to the crowd, the Koch Brothers come to mind. Howsomever I see most of the big money backers as preferring to have others stand for them and push their agenda without having to admit they are using the movement for their own interests- sort of a support their anti-abortion fight and the keep the 'traditional Americans the majority' code as long as they block meaningful tax reform and the casino capitalism many engage in.

When it comes to the Dems, if I was you I'd take comfort in the words of a sharp witted social commentator from my state- "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."

Does that help any? eace

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The behind the scenes guys are rather well known, some even smile and wave to the crowd, the Koch Brothers come to mind. Howsomever I see most of the big money backers as preferring to have others stand for them and push their agenda without having to admit they are using the movement for their own interests- sort of a support their anti-abortion fight and the keep the 'traditional Americans the majority' code as long as they block meaningful tax reform and the casino capitalism many engage in.

Sorry, but I don't buy that characterization. It could just as easily be that a bunch of little groups popped up because of a generalized sense of anger at the political process and a sense of helplessness towards fixing it in the more traditional manner of primaries and elections; said little groups are after things that are to the benefit of certain people with money, so they drop a wad of cash to give these groups the ability to buy more influence. That doesn't mean that these people are in control of the Tea Party movement.

When it comes to the Dems, if I was you I'd take comfort in the words of a sharp witted social commentator from my state- "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."

Cute, but not true.

 

[rocket88]

Tea Party suspects? I wonder which side you would have been on at the Original Boston Tea Party?

There are racists on both sides but to ignore that reality is what people like you do best.

Well, considering that the conservatives during the Revolution were Torries....which side would you be on?

I know history and conservatism are not compatible, but please try harder.

 

[sangha]

Sorry, but I don't buy that characterization. It could just as easily be that a bunch of little groups popped up

No, it couldn't because we know for a fact that the Tea Party groups did not merely "pop up"; from the very beginning they were formed and funded by the people nqr has referred to (ex Koxh Bros, Sheldon Adelson, etc)

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

No, it couldn't because we know for a fact that the Tea Party groups did not merely "pop up"; from the very beginning they were formed and funded by the people nqr has referred to (ex Koxh Bros, Sheldon Adelson, etc)

Formed and funded? Really? I would be very interested to read a credible source with clear reporting about how these people did in fact form these groups and are in fact in control of them.

Please do not provide sources that merely talk about donations, because I'll just posit that they saw groups of people doing things that were beneficial to their interests and offered financial support.

 

[sangha]

Formed and funded? Really? I would be very interested to read a credible source with clear reporting about how these people did in fact form these groups and are in fact in control of them.

Please do not provide sources that merely talk about donations, because I'll just posit that they saw groups of people doing things that were beneficial to their interests and offered financial support.

The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

Study: Tea Party Organizations Have Ties To Tobacco Industry Dating Back To 1980s | ucsf.edu

‘To quarterback behind the scenes, third-party efforts’: the tobacco industry and the Tea Party -- Fallin et al. -- Tobacco Control

Documents reveal tobacco companies funded their own ‘tea party’ first | The Raw Story

Al Gore: False Spontaneity of the Tea Party

 

[notquiteright]

Sorry, but I don't buy that characterization. It could just as easily be that a bunch of little groups popped up because of a generalized sense of anger at the political process and a sense of helplessness towards fixing it in the more traditional manner of primaries and elections; said little groups are after things that are to the benefit of certain people with money, so they drop a wad of cash to give these groups the ability to buy more influence. That doesn't mean that these people are in control of the Tea Party movement. Cute, but not true.

You don't have to buy it, it is already paid for!

Pop-ups always occur but for some select ones to rise to the surface and attract national attention and some opportunist politicians like DeMint needs deep pockets and an professionally crafted agenda. I'm sure some TPs are small leaderless cockleshells in the big boy politics seas, but to ignore the Koch Brothers, millionaire financial backers, and just say the Armey fight for control of Freedomworks is a difference of opinion is deluding yourself. FYI Dick claims FW gave Beck a cool million to say nice things about the organization- shades of Beck hustling stock in a gold scheme! :shock:

Freedomworks is said to have received 12 million from the Founder of Cancer Centers of America- and the group fights Obamacare- gee imagine that? And Richard Stephenson is supposed to have arranged the 8 million buy off of Armey.

If you don't think money doesn't buy great influence then what are the TPs attempting to change about the way DC operates? The drapes????

Anywho, some very big sharks are swimming under the cover of a few schools of bait fish, and I don't see them as very protective of the little fishes if push does come to shove.

And do take comfort in the example of FDR- the citizens were hugely happy with him and he almost lost it all by getting greedy- he attempted to rig the Supreme Court. He almost lost it all from over reach- There is hope, all is not lost, one must have faith in the fallacies of man. eace

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

Study: Tea Party Organizations Have Ties To Tobacco Industry Dating Back To 1980s | ucsf.edu

‘To quarterback behind the scenes, third-party efforts’: the tobacco industry and the Tea Party -- Fallin et al. -- Tobacco Control

Documents reveal tobacco companies funded their own ‘tea party’ first | The Raw Story

Al Gore: False Spontaneity of the Tea Party

I read your first link from start to finish. It utterly failed to deliver what I requested, so I skipped the rest.

 

[Conservative]

Well, considering that the conservatives during the Revolution were Torries....which side would you be on?

I know history and conservatism are not compatible, but please try harder.

Apparently you don't know as much about the Boston Tea Party as you think.

The Boston Tea Party (referred to in its time simply as "the destruction of the tea" or by other informal names and so named until half a century later[2]) was a political protest by the Sons of Liberty in Boston, a city in the British colony of Massachusetts, against the tax policy of the British government and the East India Company that controlled all the tea imported into the colonies.

Didn't know the Sons of Liberty were Torries. Today's T.E.A. Party stands for what and is a protest against what?

Oh, by the way I would have been on the Sons of Liberty Side as would most Conservatives

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

You don't have to buy it, it is already paid for!

Pop-ups always occur but for some select ones to rise to the surface and attract national attention and some opportunist politicians like DeMint needs deep pockets and an professionally crafted agenda. I'm sure some TPs are small leaderless cockleshells in the big boy politics seas, but to ignore the Koch Brothers, millionaire financial backers, and just say the Armey fight for control of Freedomworks is a difference of opinion is deluding yourself. FYI Dick claims FW gave Beck a cool million to say nice things about the organization- shades of Beck hustling stock in a gold scheme! :shock:

Freedomworks is said to have received 12 million from the Founder of Cancer Centers of America- and the group fights Obamacare- gee imagine that? And Richard Stephenson is supposed to have arranged the 8 million buy off of Armey.

If you don't think money doesn't buy great influence then what are the TPs attempting to change about the way DC operates? The drapes????

Anywho, some very big sharks are swimming under the cover of a few schools of bait fish, and I don't see them as very protective of the little fishes if push does come to shove.

And do take comfort in the example of FDR- the citizens were hugely happy with him and he almost lost it all by getting greedy- he attempted to rig the Supreme Court. He almost lost it all from over reach- There is hope, all is not lost, one must have faith in the fallacies of man. eace

You've gone from saying there are national leaders or a leadership structure behind the scenes to saying there's a lot of money flying around and that money influences people. Of course money is flying around and it influences people. Absolutely positively none of this translates into the kind of control that can be used to weed idiots out of the movement or even to direct the movement -- unlike the two major parties, which have a definite structure and set of authority figures.

I'm not interested in donations and how they may or may not influence -- I'm interested in individual people I can point to and say, yeah, that guy's the chairman of the board and that guy's the CEO and this one manages this region or that region. In other words, when some racist asshole pops out of the woodwork, if there isn't someone I can point at and hold responsible for the movement, then it's not the movement's fault -- it's the fault of the idiocy of one chapter of the movement.

 

[notquiteright]

You've gone from saying there are national leaders or a leadership structure behind the scenes to saying there's a lot of money flying around and that money influences people. Of course money is flying around and it influences people. Absolutely positively none of this translates into the kind of control that can be used to weed idiots out of the movement or even to direct the movement -- unlike the two major parties, which have a definite structure and set of authority figures. I'm not interested in donations and how they may or may not influence -- I'm interested in individual people I can point to and say, yeah, that guy's the chairman of the board and that guy's the CEO and this one manages this region or that region. In other words, when some racist asshole pops out of the woodwork, if there isn't someone I can point at and hold responsible for the movement, then it's not the movement's fault -- it's the fault of the idiocy of one chapter of the movement.

I know you are a smart fella, so I think you have rehearsed this line before- YOU claim it is a popcorn event with small leaderless groups are spontaneously emerging at this moment in time. I say there are financial backers with billions at stake so spending a few million is a nit combined with opportunist politicians like DeMint, and Armey who are quite willing to lead a charge- as long as they are well paid.

I never said the financial backers wanted to get rid of the 'DNA protectors' I'd opine they want them to stay, just not say stupid crap in front of the national media- it is bad enough the dirty laundry gets aired when the sock puppets get greedy like Armey.

You are not so naive to think ALL the baitfish need to swim in the same direction as the sharks, just enough of them to give cover. Come to think of it, it is helpful if a few small groups splinter off to give the appearance of no man behind the curtain.

Now I don't doubt many baitfish are indignant if folks like me try and include them in the same crowd as the DNA Dude, but the nagging fact is the racist theme does go through the movement, and yes I understand how repugnant that is to some in the TP movement, but for me it is AS repugnant as the billionaires using the movement for their very selfish concerns.

And since we still count votes and bought votes count the same as voluntary ones, the shark rule and the small schools used as cover get left out of any 'victory' party.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I know you are a smart fella, so I think you have rehearsed this line before-

I can't remember the last time I bothered to jump into one of these discussions, so... No. :lol:

YOU claim it is a popcorn event with small leaderless groups are spontaneously emerging at this moment in time.

I am saying that whereas there is a national Republican party that coordinates the parties in each of the 50 states, and whereas there are 50 state Republican parties which coordinate the parties in each of the counties, and whereas there are county Republican parties that coordinate the parties in each of the municipalities ... there is no such structure in the Tea Party movement. There is money, there are talking heads, but there is no national structure.

Since there is no national structure, you can't hold the movement responsible for the words of isolated idiots. You can only hold that local chapter responsible.

You can talk about money and influence until you're blue in the face, but in the absence of an actual organizing structure you can't hold the whole responsible for one broken part.

 

[sangha]

I read your first link from start to finish. It utterly failed to deliver what I requested, so I skipped the rest.

I'm not surprised that you stopped just before the sentence "Tea Party Organizations Have Ties To Tobacco Industry Dating Back To 1980s"