Terror -- The Uk's New Christmas export (1 Viewer)

[Red_Dave]

The question was answered; though Indians, Jewish bankers, women and Irishmen aren't fired by a religious ideology which tells them to subjugate people who aren't like them.


And I'll add this PS too -

THE 73 SECTS fraud: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...rrested-beating-up-his-15.html#post1059141593

Well I,l ask again if this ideology is so universal in Muslim countries (And i don't deny for a second that this ideology exists , i deny that its mainstream) then why does it not enjoy electoral support?

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

As most Muslim countries aren't (and never were) proper democracies at all, such a question lacks weight.

And jihadi rhetoric is mostly irrelevant to everyday Muslim life. Deep inside the Islamic world virtually everybody's already a Muslim, their priority is to get by.

 

[Red_Dave]

As most Muslim countries aren't (and never were) proper democracies at all, such a question lacks weight.

And jihadi rhetoric is mostly irrelevant to everyday Muslim life. Deep inside the Islamic world virtually everybody's already a Muslim, their priority is to get by.

But what about those that are, or at least those that still have elections (some of which need to be rigged in order to keep the Islamists in power) ? Its quite clear that if almost all Muslims had a monolithic agenda then this would be reflected at the polls. You have yet to provide evidence of this.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

There's a simple solution to the problem of British terrorism. Don't let any Brits into the country.

 

[ricksfolly]

Douglas Murray: Terror—The U.K.'s New Christmas Export - WSJ.com

"It's a story that is becoming as familiar as the traditional nativity: Ordinary young man goes to Britain, most likely to study, and comes out an Islamic extremist. If you had told Britons 20 years ago that this sort of thing was going to become routine in the 21st century, they would have laughed at you. But Britain is no longer the country it was."



I agree. The country that gave us Winston Churchill is now the terrorist hub of Europe. At some point, I am hoping politically correct denial will give way to educated realism, but for now, it is just the rest of the world that is suffering for Britain's myopia as they export their terrorism elsewhere.

Another case of media political over-exaggeration.

There are Muslims in every country, we even have millions here, many are radical thinkers, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're terrorists.

ricksfolly

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Another case of media political over-exaggeration.

There are Muslims in every country, we even have millions here, many are radical thinkers, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're terrorists.

ricksfolly

The epitome of American Islam is Anwar al Awlaki. He speaks for all American Muslims.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Drone attack kills two Britons in Pakistan: BBC News - Drone attack 'kills two Britons' in Pakistan

See what I mean?

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Red Dave:

I've told you that jihadi politics is less relevant to a nation already Muslim. Strict Sharia is the order of the day in so many. And in a democracy you get some kind of choice of the level of barbarism on order.

Islam and the main sects are set in some kind of stone but Muslims can still be different. And with each sect of it you get a different expression of the core Islam, due to brutal tribal politics Muhammad himself caused.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Drone attack kills two Britons in Pakistan: BBC News - Drone attack 'kills two Britons' in Pakistan

See what I mean?

Comedy sketches sometimes lampoon news reports headling British deaths in some disaster/battle over others. 'Jingoistic', they say.

Not any more! These scum are as British as Adolf Hitler!

 

[Manc Skipper]

Comedy sketches sometimes lampoon news reports headling British deaths in some disaster/battle over others. 'Jingoistic', they say.

Not any more! These scum are as British as Adolf Hitler!

By all accounts they are as British as you are.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

....And that drone attack comes as we strive not to upset Muslims YET AGAIN on our own bleedin' soil:



RADARSITE: American Red Cross Symbol Offends Muslims: British Flag Offends Muslims

A British member of parliament says that the symbol of the American Red Cross - the red cross - is offensive to the country's Muslims. Foreign Office minister Chris Bryant says the "red cross" is undermining the work of the humanitarian organization.

UK: RED CROSS orders staff to remove all signs of Christmas because they might offend MUSLIMS! « Bare Naked Islam's Weblog




This happened over previous years too.

As I've said, the more we grovel the more certain Muslims can bellyache about being not liked.

Perhaps, you dips--- left wing scum, the two are connected?! And not just connected but sourced to Muslim and Leftard demands for special treatment in the first place!

 

[julietsm]

Not excuses, just the research profile of a UK person who is likely to be of interest to extremists. Good proper research has been done on this. You may not like it but that is reality. Now the extremists who go about doing the recruiting would obviously be another question.



I would suggest here that you are validating the research. You do not say where you are from but UK and indeed I think European research would suggest that the person who can be recruited by extremists is generally fairly new to Islam. This has come from researching the people who have been involved. You will find that the Stockholm bomber was not interested in Islam till he came to the UK. He fits that profile.

Regarding exhortations to violence you will find such things in the Torah, the Bible and the Koran. Such things can be used by people to justify their actions. However to single out the Koran would suggest a different agenda.

That was in the Old Testament, which is a history of the Jews. There is no such exhortation to violence now.
And you certainly won't find any in the New Testament either, except for the bloodshed which will ensue when Jesus Christ returns to gather his own and crush the unbelievers - the islamists - who are the REAL INFIDELS.
The only sin that will never be forgiven is the rejection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Lord of All.
But 'every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord'.
Wow, that is gonna really kill certain people... literally!

And I am an American, btw, and we are fully sick of all the mosques pumping out jihadists over here, too.

 

[julietsm]

Yes, and I am bloody well sick of the native Brits being spat upon by this third-world...
ahem.
Yes, good and flerking tired of it!
I love my English friends. I even know a Chilean girl who can't get her citizenship but muslims seem to have no problem.
Hasn't the UK had it's fill of dole sucking immigrants by now? This girl ACTUALLY WORKS.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

By all accounts they are as British as you are.

I want to turn on the UK, ferment jihad and kill kuffars too?!

God, my memory must be slipping if I can't even remember that!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this from the same class of people who say 'Nothing British about the BNP' because of their manifesto!

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

But 'every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord'.
Wow, that is gonna really kill certain people... literally!

Even pitched on a religious level, Islam is a fraud. Muhammad claimed the Angel Gabriel came down and dictated the hate-filled, contradictory and love-bereft Koran.

The Revelations state somewhere that the Devil disguised as Gabriel will mislead a corruptible false prophet. If good ol' peaceful Mo really did have these visions then, according to peaceful Christians killed by Islam, that's what it was.

 

[julietsm]

I want to turn on the UK, ferment jihad and kill kuffars too?!

God, my memory must be slipping if I can't even remember that!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this from the same class of people who say 'Nothing British about the BNP' because of their manifesto!

You're just going to have to spend more time in mosques, sweetie.
THAT will surely jog your memory! :shock:

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Still, at least 'our' pioneering MPs have everyone's best interests at heart:

Shahid Malik MP: “whole parliament will be Muslim” « Tony Blair

Muslim Parliament of Great Britain

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...sharia-stock-exchange-hmm.html#post1058634646 , etc.

As Nick Ross says on TV's Crimewatch, 'Don't have nightmares'!







Though I do say so myself......

I thought these Muslims were supposed to be the most successfully integrated! I suppose yes, if the criteria for that is the government assisting their self-ghettoisation. No better way to be compatible than to create your own system to 'integrate' into!

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Perhaps, you dips--- left wing scum, the two are connected?!

Moderator's Warning:

Stop the personal attacks.

 

[Laila]

Our exports are for life, not just for Christmas.

:rofl
:mrgreen:

 

[Gardener]

So the left are the '50 Brits' who have frequented this board over the years. Thanks for putting it in context. Not bad out of a population of 62 million....:shock:

On a serious note, once again you have failed to deliver any context or underpinning evidence as to what you are actually suggesting.

Paul

Gunner, you might avail yourself to any of a number of online dictionaries so you can learn the meaning of the word "example".

 

[Arcana XV]

Douglas Murray: Terror—The U.K.'s New Christmas Export - WSJ.com

"It's a story that is becoming as familiar as the traditional nativity: Ordinary young man goes to Britain, most likely to study, and comes out an Islamic extremist. If you had told Britons 20 years ago that this sort of thing was going to become routine in the 21st century, they would have laughed at you. But Britain is no longer the country it was."



I agree. The country that gave us Winston Churchill is now the terrorist hub of Europe. At some point, I am hoping politically correct denial will give way to educated realism, but for now, it is just the rest of the world that is suffering for Britain's myopia as they export their terrorism elsewhere.

It is sort of worrying. Young UK Muslims, whether born there or not, seem to be the easiest to recruit into international terrorism. You gotta wonder why that is, given how open and accommodating the country is to other cultures. Then you have France, who is anything BUT open and accommodating to other cultures and yet their Muslim youth is, according to experts, the hardest to recruit. It's gotta make you wonder what the French are doing right and what the Brits are doing wrong. It should be the other way around, yet it's not. Weird.

 

[Gardener]

It is sort of worrying. Young UK Muslims, whether born there or not, seem to be the easiest to recruit into international terrorism. You gotta wonder why that is, given how open and accommodating the country is to other cultures. Then you have France, who is anything BUT open and accommodating to other cultures and yet their Muslim youth is, according to experts, the hardest to recruit. It's gotta make you wonder what the French are doing right and what the Brits are doing wrong. It should be the other way around, yet it's not. Weird.

The answer seems pretty straightforward to me in that if you expect people to assimilate, and adopt the attitude that those who come to your country become part of the fabric of your society in such a way that they accept your culture as their culture, such as the melting pot approach of the United States, then people will assimilate. That doesn't mean they will completely abandon all aspects of their parent culture, but they WILL embrace the culture of their adopted home.

If you adopt the approach of the U,K., however, and place the immigrant cultures on such a pedestal that they are inviolate, attack anybody who suggests they should adopt the cultural attitudes of their new country as being the product of racism and bigotry, give them their own parallel legal systems, change the way your schools are taught to accomoidate their prejudices, cultivate a relationship with the most backwards among them as a springboard towards your own political power and do everything that PREVENTS their assimilation, then they will not assimilate.

It is the cult of multiculturalism responsible for the radicalization, and the British are the most cult-like practitioners of such. What they fail to understand due to the dogma of multiculturalism overriding basic common sense is that by very nature people fear differences, and are loyal to their own, so the more you encourage them to be different, the greater the gulfs, and the more assimilated they are, the less. The radicalization is a direct consequence of the British enabling them to be so separate, as they examine the world according to value systems that stand in such stark contrast to one another. Seems to me that people should be able to understand this on an intuitive level, yet people don't because very few people really think at an original level, preferring to just babble way saying the same things others say. Even though the flaws of multiculturalism are so patently obvious, all the social conditioning is such that it is all but impossible to break through the barrier people put up based upon they way they have been conditioned to respond in the way they do.

Until the British change, their Muslim population will only continue to radicalize.

 

[Arcana XV]

The answer seems pretty straightforward to me in that if you expect people to assimilate, and adopt the attitude that those who come to your country become part of the fabric of your society in such a way that they accept your culture as their culture, such as the melting pot approach of the United States, then people will assimilate. That doesn't mean they will completely abandon all aspects of their parent culture, but they WILL embrace the culture of their adopted home.

If you adopt the approach of the U,K., however, and place the immigrant cultures on such a pedestal that they are inviolate, attack anybody who suggests they should adopt the cultural attitudes of their new country as being the product of racism and bigotry, give them their own parallel legal systems, change the way your schools are taught to accomoidate their prejudices, cultivate a relationship with the most backwards among them as a springboard towards your own political power and do everything that PREVENTS their assimilation, then they will not assimilate.

It is the cult of multiculturalism responsible for the radicalization, and the British are the most cult-like practitioners of such. What they fail to understand due to the dogma of multiculturalism overriding basic common sense is that by very nature people fear differences, and are loyal to their own, so the more you encourage them to be different, the greater the gulfs, and the more assimilated they are, the less. The radicalization is a direct consequence of the British enabling them to be so separate, as they examine the world according to value systems that stand in such stark contrast to one another. Seems to me that people should be able to understand this on an intuitive level, yet people don't because very few people really think at an original level, preferring to just babble way saying the same things others say. Even though the flaws of multiculturalism are so patently obvious, all the social conditioning is such that it is all but impossible to break through the barrier people put up based upon they way they have been conditioned to respond in the way they do.

Until the British change, their Muslim population will only continue to radicalize.

I suppose that's one answer. But looking at France again, Muslims have always been considered second-class citizens, many of them left to their own devices in the crappiest suburbs. On the one hand they're expected to assimilate and on the other they're made to feel different and that they don't belong. They should be the ones to lash out and get angry and they do but not in a jihadi sort of way. When they do lash out it's often against their own, especially against their women. But even though they've been discriminated against for decades, they still consider themselves French above all else and are loyal to the Republic. AlQaeda can't get to them the way they get to other Muslim populations in Europe. The only thing I can think of that explains this is the ultra-secularism they're immersed in their entire school lives. They learn to put Islam in second place behind their French identity. Is the British public education system less secular maybe or it simply that they're not expected to assimilate? Something just doesn't make sense when I compare the situation in these two countries.

 

[alexa]

It is sort of worrying. Young UK Muslims, whether born there or not, seem to be the easiest to recruit into international terrorism. You gotta wonder why that is, given how open and accommodating the country is to other cultures. Then you have France, who is anything BUT open and accommodating to other cultures and yet their Muslim youth is, according to experts, the hardest to recruit. It's gotta make you wonder what the French are doing right and what the Brits are doing wrong. It should be the other way around, yet it's not. Weird.

Assuming what you say is true Arcana I would think that the biggest difference is that we were up front in going into Afghanistan and then into Iraq. One of the main ways in which they work to condition people to terrorism is to look at videos of all the awful things we have done to Muslims. To get them thinking if they have any soul they must fight to remedy this situation. That I think is the main difference between France and the UK.

However that would not be sufficient to get someone to become a terrorist. As research has shown it has a lot to do with needing an identity and a sense of belonging. Our first migrants did not intend on staying here and so had no interest in assimilating. Instead they stayed together and worked together at jobs we British felt above.

However when these people choose to stay in Britain it was very different. Most of them encouraged their kids to integrate. As well as this I can remember in the 80's many of them rebelling against Muslim culture.

While they were doing this they were facing disgusting racism. I know this because my daughter told me all about how the children and indeed the parents spoke about kids from Bengal. Obviously this has psychological consequences and they just did not know who they were and we find from the 90's that more and more of them are identifying with Islam, many for the first time meeting it.. From the 90's religion becomes a big part of many people who were ethnically Muslim's sense of identity. In addition their parents suffered far more unemployment than the national average.

creating a further lack of self worth.

Now we also have at this time literal Islam coming into the UK. You have people with no experience and proper understanding of Islam being introduced to it in a Wahhabi way. I believe this was new to the UK because a couple of years ago I came upon an article written in 95 by a British Muslim who had received a letter from a Muslim in Jordan speaking of Islam in a Literalistic way. He explained that this was not what should be happening and that was not how Islam should be approached. He was extremely concerned.

The final thing in making many British Muslims more prone seems to have been the response to 9/11 when there were 670 reported attacks within two weeks – no doubt many more which were not reported. Seems after that all ethnically Muslims became religious Muslims. Women took to wearing the burka or at least the Hijab. Muslims needed each other for security.

Many Muslims felt angry at being blamed for 9/11 and they did not know who they were. They were easy prey and many felt to some extent revolutionary. One of those was the guy who has set up that Muslim watch organisation (the name escapes me) He went off to Saudi Arabia but when he got there he was horrified at what he saw especially the racism. He realised then that things were a lot better in the UK and returned and set up that organisation.

For many others it was a short time thing till they could see the consequences of how they were thinking would take them.

The government of course started wetting it's pants and allowed new laws to be passed keeping Muslims in jail for a substantial time without trial. There has also been much criticism of many of the other government projects.

Jails more than Universities are the main recruiting ground. Here you find people with poor self worth, usually poor sense of who they are and frequently lacking in a Muslim upbringing. For them the special attention and care of the extremists feels like a godsend. The government has now sent some of it's top Muslim scholars into jail to try and sort it out.

Just because a country claims to be multicultural does not mean that it necessarily is.

Things are also not helped by the popular press demonising Muslims frequently with untrue or distorted articles.

That's the best I can do. I hope we are past the worst though there is certainly still work to do.

As far as global terrorism is concerned I believe that is something that all countries are going to have to deal with for the foreseeable future.

For more information

Identity and Belonging in a Changing Great Britain | Facing History and Ourselves


Pakistani identities and communities in Britain
http://www.insted.co.uk/pakistani community.pdf


The Role of Muslim Identity
Politics in Radicalisation
(a study in progress)


http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/communities/pdf/452628.pdf

 

[Arcana XV]

Thanks for that, Alexa. Quite interesting and it makes a lot more sense than simply blaming multi-culturalism. And you're very right when you say that all countries will have to deal with global terrorism at some point or another. Britain may be an important "hub" as Gardener said, but the reality is that there are recruitment organizations in every country and the internet is fast becoming a self-recruiting tool of sorts.

I'm reading this interesting report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence. It's a study on the recruitment and mobilisation for the Islamist militant movement in Europe. Worth the read:

http://www.icsr.info/publications/papers/1234516791ICSREUResearchReport_Proof1.pdf