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Tennessee grocery store attack: ‘He kept on shooting’

TU Curmudgeon said:
What was in "the shooter's head" was that he had a right to kill people whom he didn't know just because he had been fired.

What more do you have to know?
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Well, that was my first reaction, too, and that's a piece of it. But to be that close to the line that you are ready to kill yourself and random others is a lot more than that. It didn't happen overnight. It's the ultimate annihilation. We have to do better at seeing these train wrecks coming.
 
Big Steve said:
And those are all dependent on the applicant being honest. It's not like the DMV does medical checks to determine if someone is an epileptic or mentally unstable. Also, passing the driver's test is remarkably simple. I don't know of anyone who would truly consider that "vetting"...
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No, not really....there is a database....and they use it. Further, if you lie on a driver's license application and are caught....that is a crime. Depending on your state, you can be imprisoned for up to 2 years for lying on a driver's license application.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Actually the "average criminal" is NOT deterred by the possibility of arrest and/or incarceration because the "average criminal" tends to believe that [1] they will never get caught, [2] if caught they will [2a]never be convicted, or [2b] be able to negotiate a plea bargain.
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Many criminals aren't really thinking ahead at all when they break laws. They're a very impulsive bunch, as a rule.
 
ClaraD said:
No, not really....there is a database....and they use it. Further, if you lie on a driver's license application and are caught....that is a crime. Depending on your state, you can be imprisoned for up to 2 years for lying on a driver's license application.
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Really??

Huh.

Exactly what database are first time driver license applicants listen on?
 
Big Steve said:
Really??

Huh.

Exactly what database are first time driver license applicants listen on?
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there is a national data base, but we aren't talking just first time driver's license applicants....and first time still have to pass a drivers test both written and a physical driving test. They have to also swear under penalty they aren't lying on the said application...for instance...a person with a seizure disorder...if they have had it their whole life...and lie to get a license...then subsequently get into an accident because of a seizure....and it is found they lied on the application...guess what they are charged with? Oh, that is right...a crime.
 
ClaraD said:
there is a national data base, but we aren't talking just first time driver's license applicants....and first time still have to pass a drivers test both written and a physical driving test. They have to also swear under penalty they aren't lying on the said application...for instance...a person with a seizure disorder...if they have had it their whole life...and lie to get a license...then subsequently get into an accident because of a seizure....and it is found they lied on the application...guess what they are charged with? Oh, that is right...a crime.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure doctors report it if you're diagnosed with a seizure disorder.
 
MaryP said:
Actually, I'm pretty sure doctors report it if you're diagnosed with a seizure disorder.
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He is now narrowing it down to new applicants...a new applicant may not have a report sent to the DMV....because that would violate HIPAA...however, if that person shows up with a driver's license at the doctor's office, because that person is a danger to the public....the doctor would be under obligation to report it to the DMV at that point.
 
TurtleDude said:
what is more dangerous-an item that is not designed as a weapon but kills more people than

an object that has-as one of its main purposes-being a weapon?
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Might I suggest that car accidents are the major cause rather than a deliberate act? Of course if you can demonstrate that the use of a car as a lethal weapon exceeds that of guns in terms of numbers killed, I'll be happy to concede.
 
ClaraD said:
there is a national data base, but we aren't talking just first time driver's license applicants....
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I said for APPLICANTS.

There is no database someone could go to in order to determine if there's a reason someone should be denied a license.

If you're just going to make up nonsense and present it as fact, let me know and we can end this right now...

ClaraD said:
and first time still have to pass a drivers test both written and a physical driving test. They have to also swear under penalty they aren't lying on the said application...for instance...a person with a seizure disorder...if they have had it their whole life...and lie to get a license...then subsequently get into an accident because of a seizure....and it is found they lied on the application...guess what they are charged with? Oh, that is right...a crime.
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There was no such question asked when I got my New York driver's license in 1980, or my California license in 1990, or my Florida license in 2013...
 
mrdeltoid said:
Another example of “When seconds count, police are only minutes away “.
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When seconds count, a 'good guy with a gun' is only minutes away.

I know, I know, the conclusion we're supposed to draw from your bumper sticker line is that there aren't enough guns in grocery stores.
 
Antiwar said:
When seconds count, a 'good guy with a gun' is only minutes away.

I know, I know, the conclusion we're supposed to draw from your bumper sticker line is that there aren't enough guns in grocery stores.
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Here in Florida, it's a pretty safe bet that more than a few folks in the grocery store with you are armed...
 
MaryP said:
Well, that was my first reaction, too, and that's a piece of it. But to be that close to the line that you are ready to kill yourself and random others is a lot more than that. It didn't happen overnight. It's the ultimate annihilation. We have to do better at seeing these train wrecks coming.
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You might want to ask yourself if the "loss of face" involved in being fired had something to do with the fact that the ASPL decided to abandon all Christian teachings in order to lash out.

However, you are quite correct that this shooting is not something that happened overnight. The shooting has its roots in the American veneration of guns, the American veneration of "colourful" criminals, the American veneration for those who resort to violence in order to solve "issues", and the American veneration for "putting your own interests ahead of anyone else's interests".

What is involved in doing better at seeing these train wrecks coming is (metaphorically speaking):

[1] learning to recognize railroad tracks​
​
[2] learning to recognize locomotives​
​
[3] learning to recognize when a locomotive is approaching​
​
and​
​
[4] learning that the safest place to be standing when a locomotive is rushing toward you is NOT between the rails.​

Unfortunately (again metaphorically speaking) Americans have been taught that they have a constitutional right not to be run over by locomotives even if they do stand between the rails.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't deny that, but the issue becomes what is the best way to try to prevent that sort of thing from happening. The main way laws deter bad behavior is the threat-and then the application of incarceration. People who are not deterred by the possibility of a life sentence (or being killed or dying) are not particularly impacted by a law banning them from having a gun. With open borders and 400 million guns in the USA and a billion on the world market-including tons of recently declared obsolete soviet block weapons, you are not going to prevent someone from getting a gun anymore than laws banning crack or heroin stops addicts from getting that stuff. However, the people who would never ever contemplate murdering others are often disarmed by gun laws,
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Ohhhh, it's an "open borders" issue.
 
It's obvious that the solution to gun violence is more guns and more gun rights.
 
MaryP said:
Many criminals aren't really thinking ahead at all when they break laws. They're a very impulsive bunch, as a rule.
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Which is one of the main reasons why almost all sociological studies have shown that the "average criminal" has actually chosen the BEST "career path" that is REALISTICALLY available to them (as they ACTUALLY are).

[NOTE - The term "average criminal" pretty much excludes persons who commit acts of violence without any intention of financial gain.]
 
Big Steve said:
Here in Florida, it's a pretty safe bet that more than a few folks in the grocery store with you are armed...
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Doesn't it give you a real warm and fuzzy feeling to know that you live in a society where a significant proportion of the population thinks that they NEED to be armed at all times?

Wouldn't you absolutely hate to live in a society where a significant proportion (like, almost all) of the population thinks that anyone who thinks that they NEED to be armed at all times is more than slightly off their rocker (and has the crime statistics to prove it)?
 
Antiwar said:
Ohhhh, it's an "open borders" issue.
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no, its a valid point from someone who actually understands trafficking contraband and knows how it is almost impossible to stop weapons, drugs, illegals, etc from coming into our nation
 
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TurtleDude said:
no, its a valid point from someone who actually understands trafficking contraband and knows how it is almost impossible to stop weapons, drugs, illegals, etc from coming into our nation
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Yeah, it's not like the US is the #1 manufacturer and exporter of weapons, it's that guns are being trafficked in across the "open borders."
 
Antiwar said:
Yeah, it's not like the US is the #1 manufacturer and exporter of weapons, it's that guns are being trafficked in across the "open borders."
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that has nothing to do with my point that if GUNS ARE BANNED as some want, in the USA, criminals will easily be able to bring thousands in weekly.
 
TurtleDude said:
that has nothing to do with my point that if GUNS ARE BANNED as some want, in the USA, criminals will easily be able to bring thousands in weekly.
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Ohhhh, IF GUNS ARE BANNED, then there'll be an "open borders" gun problem in addition to the domestic gun problem.
 
Antiwar said:
Ohhhh, IF GUNS ARE BANNED, then there'll be an "open borders" gun problem in addition to the domestic gun problem.
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no, if guns are banned, it will only disarm the law abiding-DUH
 
TurtleDude said:
no, if guns are banned, it will only disarm the law abiding-DUH
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Ohhhh, now the point you were trying to make by mentioning "open borders" is that laws only affect the law-abiding. My "DUH."
 
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