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Ted Cruz gives an amazing speech -- doesn't endorse Trump

Josie said:
Neither does Ted Cruz from what I heard. When someone says that they are a Christian before anything else, that doesn't equal "I want this country to be a theocracy".
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It doesn't but we all know the religious nut jobs would love it if it were.
 
ocean515 said:
Perhaps. But I am of the belief the times have changed significantly and permanently. Whether it be here in the US, or in Europe, the average every day citizen is fed up with the people in government they thought they could trust.

What ever number is represented by "crap-ton", Cruz lost, and he should have declined the invitation to speak if he didn't intend to be a man of his word.

He promised to support the candidate voters selected, and he showed himself to be nothing but an establishment Republican faking his outsider credentials. Clearly, people are done with such people. Thank goodness for that.

I don't think that will ever be forgotten.
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whah?

The Establishment is furious - the Establishment is solidly behind Trump. The Establishment is behind Trump not least because they hate Ted Cruz[/u].

Donald Trump broke the pledge months ago. He doesn't get to claim it's defense now.
 
Josie said:
Like who?
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Give it a rest. I have seen countless religious nut jobs that want their creationist non-sense taught in schools and evolution banned and the 10 commandments hanging in every court room and abortion banned and condoms banned and the "what you do with your sex organs" police in everyone's bedroom.
 
blaxshep said:
Give it a rest. I have seen countless religious nut jobs that want their creationist non-sense taught in schools and evolution banned and the 10 commandments hanging in every court room and abortion banned and condoms banned and the "what you do with your sex organs" police in everyone's bedroom.
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In the past we had religion in schools, the 10 commandments in public spaces, abortion was banned and being gay was looked upon as evil --- does that mean we were once a theocracy?
 
I thought it was brilliant. He refused to bow at the altar of Trump. He gave a great speech. And he held firm to his principles. If I'd lived in his district, I'd campaign for him.
 
Josie said:
In the past we had religion in schools, the 10 commandments in public spaces, abortion was banned and being gay was looked upon as evil --- does that mean we were once a theocracy?
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only misguided
 
cpwill said:
whah?

The Establishment is furious - the Establishment is solidly behind Trump. The Establishment is behind Trump not least because they hate Ted Cruz[/u].

Donald Trump broke the pledge months ago. He doesn't get to claim it's defense now.
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I disagree. I see it completely different.

The evidence as I see it doesn't approach supporting your contention the Establishment supports Trump. It seems to me, the Establishment is completely against Trump and is struggling to come to terms with the voice of the voters who placed Trump where he is.

Cruz revealed he is little more than a copy of the political elite voters have shown they are through with.
 
ocean515 said:
I disagree. I see it completely different.

The evidence as I see it doesn't approach supporting your contention the Establishment supports Trump. It seems to me, the Establishment is completely against Trump and is struggling to come to terms with the voice of the voters who placed Trump where he is.
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:lol: the establishment started making their peace with Trump as soon as it became obvious that the most likely alternative was Cruz (whom they hate, hate, hate, hate, hate). The Establishment has uniformly lined up behind Trump, The Establishment used bare-knuckle politics earlier this week to squash any last ditch attempt to even have a verbal protest-opposition to Trump on the floor.

The idea that Trump is fighting The Establishment has always been a bit ridiculous - but now? They're the same.

Cruz revealed he is little more than a copy of the political elite voters have shown they are through with.
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...no. Cruz demonstrated that he's willing to stick to principle, and fight, even when doing so is unpopular. He is exactly what Trump voters claimed they wanted, which, of course, only makes them hypocrites. :)
 
cpwill said:
:lol: the establishment started making their peace with Trump as soon as it became obvious that the most likely alternative was Cruz (whom they hate, hate, hate, hate, hate). The Establishment has uniformly lined up behind Trump, The Establishment used bare-knuckle politics earlier this week to squash any last ditch attempt to even have a verbal protest-opposition to Trump on the floor.

The idea that Trump is fighting The Establishment has always been a bit ridiculous - but now? They're the same.



...no. Cruz demonstrated that he's willing to stick to principle, and fight, even when doing so is unpopular. He is exactly what Trump voters claimed they wanted, which, of course, only makes them hypocrites. :)
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No need for the emoticons cpwill. I'm attempting an adult discussion.

I find no evidence whatsoever that backs your assertion. Has the "apparatus" surrendered to the realty of Trump as the voters choice? Do they have any choice?

Did the anti-Trump protest go nowhere? Yes, as it should have. They don't deserve any special treatment. They don't get to hijack the convention. Their candidates lost. That is how it works. They tried, and failed, end of story.

And no, Cruz proved he was no better than Clinton pointing to the camera and claiming he did not have sex with that woman.

Cruz should never have promised to support the eventual candidate if he didn't mean it. Obviously, he was lying when he made the promise - an indicator of lack of character and a preference for political expediency, which voters are done with.
 
cpwill said:
:lol: the establishment started making their peace with Trump as soon as it became obvious that the most likely alternative was Cruz (whom they hate, hate, hate, hate, hate). The Establishment has uniformly lined up behind Trump, The Establishment used bare-knuckle politics earlier this week to squash any last ditch attempt to even have a verbal protest-opposition to Trump on the floor.

The idea that Trump is fighting The Establishment has always been a bit ridiculous - but now? They're the same.



...no. Cruz demonstrated that he's willing to stick to principle, and fight, even when doing so is unpopular. He is exactly what Trump voters claimed they wanted, which, of course, only makes them hypocrites. :)
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great... well I'm glad Ted is so principled. meanwhile we risk screwing the Constitution for the next 30 years or more, since poor little Ted can't stand but divide the party and the radical side of the Dems have absolutely no problem barking all about it and how "unprincipled, racist and stupid" the GOP in general is, so they can win at any cost; because by being so evil and demented, we , as conservatives, deserve to lose.

there are idealistic principles and then there is reality. I prefer to pay attention to reality.
 
Hypothetical said:
great... well I'm glad Ted is so principled. meanwhile we risk screwing the Constitution for the next 30 years or more, since poor little Ted can't stand but divide the party and the radical side of the Dems have absolutely no problem barking all about it and how "unprincipled, racist and stupid" the GOP in general is, so they can win at any cost; because by being so evil and demented, we , as conservatives, deserve to lose.

there are idealistic principles and then there is reality. I prefer to pay attention to reality.
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If you believe the Reps don't bark a bunch of ridiculous lies, so THEY "can win at any cost" then you have absolutely no grasp on reality.

Both parties play the same destructive games. We lose, but neither party is innocent when it comes to "win at any/all cost" tactics that do nothing but hurt the overall country as a whole.
 
It's kinda amazing to me that when Ted Cruz spoke about needing someone who defends the Constitution and to vote your conscience, some Trumpers immediately assume Cruz was saying to vote for Hillary. How does that make sense in their brains? Cruz doesn't want Hillary to be President. Cruz doesn't want Trump to be President. But there's no way he'd vote for Hillary over Trump.
 
Dragonfly said:
If you believe the Reps don't bark a bunch of ridiculous lies, so THEY "can win at any cost" then you have absolutely no grasp on reality.

Both parties play the same destructive games. We lose, but neither party is innocent when it comes to "win at any/all cost" tactics that do nothing but hurt the overall country as a whole.
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I understand that precisely. I don't like it. but the items that I spoke of just because of someone's politics is by and large a Dem game.
 
Josie said:
It's kinda amazing to me that when Ted Cruz spoke about needing someone who defends the Constitution and to vote your conscience, some Trumpers immediately assume Cruz was saying to vote for Hillary. How does that make sense in their brains? Cruz doesn't want Hillary to be President. Cruz doesn't want Trump to be President. But there's no way he'd vote for Hillary over Trump.
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speaking in a purely cold and calculating political sense, because it leaves uncertainty in the mix that Dems can harp on.

if he could not bring unity, he should not have spoken.
 
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Hypothetical said:
I understand that precisely. I don't like it. but the items that I spoke of just because of someone's politics is by and large a Dem game.
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No it's not.

The reps constantly talk about "the evil and demented Librools" and their "desire to turn the USofA into a communist dictatorship" and the "desires to confiscate every gun ever made", and the "desire to destroy America from within"... and none of that even touches the whole "birther" idiocy we lived through for the last 7 years.....and the Obama is a Muslim/ISIS ....

I mean come on, the reps are EQUALLY as guilty of everything you suggest the Dems are/do.
 
It's the only thing Cruz has ever done that I really like. I respect him for it. It may hurt him politically in the long run, Adelsen would not see him after his remarks, but I would not endorse a candidate either, who had stooped to attacking my wife and father. Cruz is right on this one. Trump should be embarrassed, and it shows how poor his political judgment is to ask a guy like Cruz to speak at the convention, without having his endorsement.
 
Dragonfly said:
No it's not.

The reps constantly talk about "the evil and demented Librools" and their "desire to turn the USofA into a communist dictatorship" and the "desires to confiscate every gun ever made", and the "desire to destroy America from within"... and none of that even touches the whole "birther" idiocy we lived through for the last 7 years.....and the Obama is a Muslim/ISIS ....

I mean come on, the reps are EQUALLY as guilty of everything you suggest the Dems are/do.
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sure there are those that do, but somehow not as virulently, not in my opinion.

I'll tell you what, next time you see a great number of republicans throwing ****, assaulting convention and rally goers just for attending a political event and calling them racists and such, you let me know.
 
Hypothetical said:
great... well I'm glad Ted is so principled. meanwhile we risk screwing the Constitution for the next 30 years or more, since poor little Ted can't stand but divide the party and the radical side of the Dems have absolutely no problem barking all about it and how "unprincipled, racist and stupid" the GOP in general is, so they can win at any cost; because by being so evil and demented, we , as conservatives, deserve to lose.

there are idealistic principles and then there is reality. I prefer to pay attention to reality.
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:lol: you have no idea what you are talking about, do you :)


Cruz didn't divide the party - Trump did that. Trump asked Cruz to come give the speech and approved the speech ahead of time....

....apparently because they wanted to boo him and then attack him. Booing defending the Constitution. Which you claim is weakened by the guy begging folks to come out and vote to defend it? :lol:
 
ocean515 said:
No need for the emoticons cpwill. I'm attempting an adult discussion.
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:) The strongest emotion I'm feeling is amusement at the pathetic, pathetic, transparency of those who claim to be "upset" about this, or those who claim that somehow Trump is fighting the Establishment.

I find no evidence whatsoever that backs your assertion. Has the "apparatus" surrendered to the realty of Trump as the voters choice? Do they have any choice?
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Sure they do. They chose to back Trump. And they started making that choice during the Primary, well before Trump had wrapped it up. They're quite happy to "rent the party to Trump for four months" rather than risking losing it to Cruz for four years.

Did the anti-Trump protest go nowhere? Yes, as it should have. They don't deserve any special treatment. They don't get to hijack the convention. Their candidates lost. That is how it works. They tried, and failed, end of story.
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The GOP Establishment overrode party rules in order to shut down the vote, lest it become embarrassing. Now, you can think that maybe they should have, so this thing could be a pageant instead of a convention. But let's not pretend that it was anything other than the Establishment doing what the Establishment does - shutting down conservatives.

And no, Cruz proved he was no better than Clinton pointing to the camera and claiming he did not have sex with that woman. Cruz should never have promised to support the eventual candidate if he didn't mean it. Obviously, he was lying when he made the promise - an indicator of lack of character and a preference for political expediency, which voters are done with.
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:lamo

So are you honestly woefully uninformed, and truly don't know that it was Trump who shattered this pledge and tossed it aside months ago, or are you just a hypocrite, who doesn't actually give a crap about what he's complaining about? :)
 
Helix said:
he won't be Ryan's running mate in 2020, IMO.
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No, but I like the way you think. Trump loses, Ryan wins in 2020. Ryan is walking the line between principle and party pretty well right now. If there is one person that might actually make me vote, its Ryan.
 
Lets not forget that 7 million people voted FOR Cruz, and 52% of voters voted for someone other than Trump. Cruz isnt on the wrong side ideologically.
 
finebead said:
It's the only thing Cruz has ever done that I really like. I respect him for it. It may hurt him politically in the long run, Adelsen would not see him after his remarks, but I would not endorse a candidate either, who had stooped to attacking my wife and father. Cruz is right on this one. Trump should be embarrassed, and it shows how poor his political judgment is to ask a guy like Cruz to speak at the convention, without having his endorsement.
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I dont think so. You have to think like Trump. Put a loser up, then come out a winner. Its all about boosting Trumps ego. Its a reality show.
 
cpwill said:
:lol: you have no idea what you are talking about, do you :)


Cruz didn't divide the party - Trump did that. Trump asked Cruz to come give the speech and approved the speech ahead of time....

....apparently because they wanted to boo him and then attack him. Booing defending the Constitution. Which you claim is weakened by the guy begging folks to come out and vote to defend it? :lol:
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I know exactly what I am talking about.

"apparently because they wanted to boo him"... oh well then I suppose the RNC wants to lose the election then, because that is all that will accomplish. perhaps Trump IS a Dem plant candidate. Is that what you are proposing? What I am not doing is giving creedence to any conspiracy theories.

I have no problem with him wanting to defend the constitution, but we don't need his words to tell us that. what we need is his endorsement. if he REALLY wanted to help defend the constitution this cycle, but absolutely could not bring himself to clearly endorse Trump in a sign of unity, then he should have declined to speak.
 
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