Switching from Progressive to Libertarian-Left

[66gardeners]

Yes, but you can't say that your political views = progress, and anyone who opposes it is anti-progress. You obviously failed to comprehend my example. Anyway, carry on.

Did I say anyone who opposes it is anti-progress. You speak for yourself, not me.

 

[66gardeners]

Yup, just like you can no longer associate libertarian with liberty since most of them are now republican fascists who got lost on their way to the tea party.

If they would only educate themselves. LOL

 

[66gardeners]

Corporations are like people. Some can be good and some can be bad. To arbitrarily treat them all as the worse of them is flat our wrong.

Corporations' purpose is not to work for you or me. A government's purpose is that reason.

 

[X Factor]

Did I say anyone who opposes it is anti-progress. You speak for yourself, not me.

You did ask how anyone could dare oppose progressivism and suggested it's the same thing as opposing progress. I will say that it all depends on where we're progressing to, whether or not "progress" is a good thing. If I am in a car that is progressing toward a cliff, I would be anti-progress in that case.

 

[66gardeners]

You did ask how anyone could dare oppose progressivism and suggested it's the same thing as opposing progress. I will say that it all depends on where we're progressing to, whether or not "progress" is a good thing. If I am in a car that is progressing toward a cliff, I would be anti-progress in that case.

Than you are a progressive. But I wasn't talking to you anyway.

 

[trfjr]

Who in their right minds is against progress. I do not trust corporations to do the right thing for me or you. Gov't is there for that reason. Make sure you vote for the right people. George Bush was not that.

government can and has become just as corrupt as corporations


A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circlue of our felicities.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[66gardeners]

government can and has become just as corrupt as corporations

Not everybody in gov't is corrupt. Liars are corrupt. Republicans lie. Republicans are corrupt.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

to be more accurate, it would be a socialistic attitude.

socialism and libertarianism are compatible... but it's mostly academic/philosophical compatibility... real world integration is incredible hard to pull off( primarily due to the authoritative tendencies that arise in implementing policy)

many Socialists are actually left Libertarians, but find themselves vacating basic tenants of libertarians in order to implement policy.

to be fair, this is also a problem that right libertarians have.

That may resemble the US but if you study abroad, you will learn that there are some places (like in Latin America) where government is both decentralized and in the hands of the local community.

 

[X Factor]

Than you are a progressive.

Nuh uh.

But I wasn't talking to you anyway.

You post on a topic, you invite comment. If you want to have a private conversation, take it to PMs.

 

[Gardener]

All power structures are corrupt. By very nature, one of the functions of any bureaucracy is to preserve the bureauocracy and the actions of those within such are geared towards serving the needs of such even as they attempt to serve their own.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I have been undergoing quite a bit of transformation with regard to my political views over the past few years. When I first came to this board I didn't know what Libertarian-Left was. I felt Progressive best reflected my ideals. But I have come to believe Left Libertarianism best describes my current political philosophy. I guess the major stumbling block for me lately with regards to progressivism is I have come to distrust governments almost as much as I mistrust large corporations. I am weary of any coalescence of power, whether it is in government or in the business sector.

I am certainly open to any further reading on the subject if anyone has suggestions.

Chomsky

 

[ttwtt78640]

Progress is a noun. Progressive is an adverb.

Submit is a noun. Submissive is an adverb. Someone who submits is submissive. Some who wants progress is progressive.

Nonsense! First of all progressive is and adjective not an adverb (that would be progressively).

Progressive Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[trfjr]

Not everybody in gov't is corrupt. Liars are corrupt. Republicans lie. Republicans are corrupt.

we have the biggest liar as a president then we ever had

 

[tererun]

Wow...

You are so misinformed.

It is pretty much obvious the right wing perversion of the libertarian party is all about having the right to own guns and that is where your rights end. Unlike real libertarians they want the fed to stop interfering in their state's attempts to ban choice for abortion, ban gay marriage, continue the drug war, establish a state religion, discriminate against hispanics and blacks, and bow to the god's ron and rand. The right is not about freedom, it is about state imposed morals and huge government whether it be at the federal or state level. If there is anyone misinforming me it is the people who identify themselves as libertarians today.

 

[tererun]

we have the biggest liar as a president then we ever had

Obama lies like any other politician, but lies the most is a pretty heavy accusation considering some of the epic liars we have had in the presidency in the past. I know you want that to be true, but you seem to forget that anyone who becomes a US president is a world champion liar and I think you would need some quantitative proof to go with such a quantitative argument.

 

[Bob N]

where differ from the left leaning libertarians is that I see government at the root of bad corporate behavior...and i don't trust government to regulate away a problem they created by regulation.

Really? I think the other way around. As a matter of fact, it is common knowledge that corporations (The same people that wants less government.) have lobbying groups that go to Washington DC with their checkbook accounts full of money ready to spend.

But don't worry. Our lawmakers make sure that once they get to DC the corporations are the first to get in to their offices.

Like I said earlier in this thread: both make great bed partners. :roll:

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Really? I think the other way around. As a matter of fact, it is common knowledge that corporations (The same people that wants less government.) have lobbying groups that go to Washington DC with their checkbook accounts full of money ready to spend.

Do as I say not what I do.

 

[VanceMack]

I have been undergoing quite a bit of transformation with regard to my political views over the past few years. When I first came to this board I didn't know what Libertarian-Left was. I felt Progressive best reflected my ideals. But I have come to believe Left Libertarianism best describes my current political philosophy. I guess the major stumbling block for me lately with regards to progressivism is I have come to distrust governments almost as much as I mistrust large corporations. I am weary of any coalescence of power, whether it is in government or in the business sector.

I am certainly open to any further reading on the subject if anyone has suggestions.

Get ready to be told you cant be a 'real' libertarian.

 

[What if...?]

There seem to be some distinct differences between the Libertarian Party and Left Libertarianism, particularly in regards to labor, capitalism, and ownership of property.

The whole laizzes faire(sic?) thing was what turned me off on libertarianism.

Concentrated power is dangerous, in our world money is power, capitalism is concentrative by nature.

Made is seem like a bait and switch by the rich men who tend to support it.

 

[What if...?]

Skepticism of government, belief that power in the hands of people (any power, any people) will be corrupted?

congrats on the move. You're in good company.

Except economic power, right?

 

[Thrilla]

Really? I think the other way around. As a matter of fact, it is common knowledge that corporations (The same people that wants less government.) have lobbying groups that go to Washington DC with their checkbook accounts full of money ready to spend.

But don't worry. Our lawmakers make sure that once they get to DC the corporations are the first to get in to their offices.

Like I said earlier in this thread: both make great bed partners. :roll:

corporations can't force the government to do anything... but that's not really my point.

my point is that most of that lobbying effort is expended to circumvent, or gain exceptions, from existing regulation.
it's generally brought about by the rule of unintended consequences.

it's not likely to change, though... not until we start putting time and effort into quality of policy instead of quantity of policies

 

[YoungConserv]

There seem to be some distinct differences between the Libertarian Party and Left Libertarianism, particularly in regards to labor, capitalism, and ownership of property.

I don't understand the libertarian lefy that seems like a contradiction in terms

 

[Bob N]

Do as I say not what I do.

That could go both ways. The world of business does not want government involvement, yet they go to Washington DC, so they can't even do as they say. Our elected lawmakers (both sides.) say they want what's good for everyone yet wind up doing for the few. I'll say it again: they both make for great bed partners.

What I don't like is a faction that is not government, and it says they do not want it in their lives, yet they might as well be living with it.

Anyways, I'm watching both of them. :shrug: :roll:

 

[Thrilla]

I don't understand the libertarian lefy that seems like a contradiction in terms

there is no contradiction... they are entirely compatible.

libertarianism was, at it's inception, a very "lefty" ideology.....it has, since then, expanded and covers a very wide array of beliefs.... form right leaning, to left, from socialism to anarchy.

the very first person to label himself a libertarian was a communist anarchist....Joseph Déjacque ... he was a french philosopher that identified himself as a libertarian communist.

unfortunately, it was the left leaning authoritatives who have crushed and persecuted libertarians throughout the years... primarily socialists and communists... this tradition continues today , even here in the US, where so called "liberals" are the the most most opposed to the ideology ( which says something about how illiberal contemporary liberals actually are)

 

[Bob N]

corporations can't force the government to do anything... but that's not really my point.

my point is that most of that lobbying effort is expended to circumvent, or gain exceptions, from existing regulation.
it's generally brought about by the rule of unintended consequences.

it's not likely to change, though... not until we start putting time and effort into quality of policy instead of quantity of policies

Why do firms lobby? A 22,000 percent return. A Christian Science Monitor article