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Switching from Progressive to Libertarian-Left

Cyrylek said:
You would argue right.

"Libertarians" are the original, actual liberals, in every logical way. The American "liberals" ("progressives", whatever) are a triumph of the Orwellian Newspeak.
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Exactly so how can their be a libertarian left that uses government cohercian to meet its goals that's against the very core of libertarianism.
 
cpwill said:
:lamo :lamo :lamo

Laughing_Chimp.gif
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He said fascism saved Europe
 
Henrin said:
Take the time to read post 95 and 96.
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Oh I did

But that doesn't exactly make up for it imo

Also sorry for not responding. One has to sleep when one has a job

I know I know, holy **** a socialist with a job ;)
 
If what I'm reading here on what people accept is libertarian left...

Just how do you people consider forcing socialistic programs on others not authoritarian, which is diametrically opposite of libertarianism?
 
Lord of Planar said:
If what I'm reading here on what people accept is libertarian left...

Just how do you people consider forcing socialistic programs on others not authoritarian, which is diametrically opposite of libertarianism?
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Who said it forced socialistic programs on people?
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Who said it forced socialistic programs on people?
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That's what some of what I am reading is, at least my perception. I'll admit, i am guilty in filling in some blanks of what people said. When I went back over to find a specific example, I didn't find one.

I will maintain this:

1) When you institute a socialism style program among a population of people where it is not 100% unanimous, it is not libertarian. It is authoritarian. The many dictating to the few.

2) I see the difference between left libertarian and right libertarian to be like the example of pro choice vs. pro life. The pro choice libertarian doesn't see the fetus as innocent life being exterminated. they see it as just tissue. The right libertarian see it as innocent life, and has it's own rights not to be murdered. The libertarian party exists with both view. There are many issues left vs. right within the party.

3) The primary thing I see as a requirement to call oneself a libertarian is to acknowledge that nobody should be required to do anything they wish not to.

4) Nobody is 100% anything. We will all have some traits that fall outside what we choose to lable ourselves as.

5) Taxes are a necessary evil that should be as minimal as possible to support the smallest government possible to maintain a civil and protected society.
 
Lord of Planar said:
That's what some of what I am reading is, at least my perception. I'll admit, i am guilty in filling in some blanks of what people said. When I went back over to find a specific example, I didn't find one.

I will maintain this:

1) When you institute a socialism style program among a population of people where it is not 100% unanimous, it is not libertarian. It is authoritarian. The many dictating to the few.

2) I see the difference between left libertarian and right libertarian to be like the example of pro choice vs. pro life. The pro choice libertarian doesn't see the fetus as innocent life being exterminated. they see it as just tissue. The right libertarian see it as innocent life, and has it's own rights not to be murdered. The libertarian party exists with both view. There are many issues left vs. right within the party.

3) The primary thing I see as a requirement to call oneself a libertarian is to acknowledge that nobody should be required to do anything they wish not to.

4) Nobody is 100% anything. We will all have some traits that fall outside what we choose to lable ourselves as.

5) Taxes are a necessary evil that should be as minimal as possible to support the smallest government possible to maintain a civil and protected society.
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Heres' the difference, Right libertarians see property as the end all be all of economics, i.e. property is fundemental, left libertarians see it as a social contract LIKE government.
 
RGacky3 said:
Heres' the difference, Right libertarians see property as the end all be all of economics, i.e. property is fundemental, left libertarians see it as a social contract LIKE government.
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I don't follow. Will you elaborate please? i think I will disagree with your concept of "right."
 
Lord of Planar said:
I don't follow. Will you elaborate please? i think I will disagree with your concept of "right."
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Libertarianism in europe grew out of the socialist movement, the anarchist movement, i.e. anti-capitalism and anti-state, liberatrianism in american had 2 sources, the anarchist movement and the industrialists, any rand type libertarian.

My point is that for the libertarians that are pro-capitalism, property is seen as a fundemental right along with speach and bodily autonomy, it's the end all and be all, meaning property is the one institution that MUST stand.

For left-libertarians property is seen as for what it is ... an institution that is state made, a social-contract, just like government is a social contract, it (like government) is also a source of tyranny.
 
OK, if you wish. I think it's wrong.

I assume since currency is also government issue, left libertarians don't believe in currency...
 
Well i think you're both wrong. :roll:
 
LOL...


So we at least agree we are free to have our own thoughts...
 
Lord of Planar said:
That's what some of what I am reading is, at least my perception. I'll admit, i am guilty in filling in some blanks of what people said. When I went back over to find a specific example, I didn't find one.

I will maintain this:

1) When you institute a socialism style program among a population of people where it is not 100% unanimous, it is not libertarian. It is authoritarian. The many dictating to the few.
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I'm wondering if you see your own cognitive dissonance in this statement? A few dictating to many is also authoritarian which I'm sure deep down inside you know. The question then becomes, "How do you feel about statism"? And, "Too what degree?"

When you say, "The primary thing I see as a requirement to call oneself a libertarian is to acknowledge that nobody should be required to do anything they wish not to do" do you believe to be libertarian means to be selfish, in the true sense, to only fulfill one's own needs? I do believe this is where there is different schools of thought within the label 'libertarian'. Some forms believe that people should work together for the good of their group vs. only for the needs of oneself which is the difference between collectivism and individualism.

About taxes, collectivist believe taxes should be collect for the good of the group like schools, medical care, and protection from fire or crime vs. another version which is highly authoritarian when you start to take about our modern day national defense. Then there is also the theme of natural resources and let's not forget decentralization which also has different schools of thought.
 
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