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Soviets murder 3.5 million German POWs in Gulags circa WW2

Graffias

Graffias

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Below 1953 article in the The Pittsburgh Press admits 2.8 million German POWs taken by the Soviet Union have died, and another 700,000 are still listed as "missing."

Only around 20,000 German POWs held in the Soviet Union would be repatriated to Germany after 1953.

The last surviving 10,000 German POWs were not released by the Soviets until 1955.

Thus, around 3.5 million German POWs perished while in Soviet captivity

The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

.German POWs millions killed in Soviet gulags.webp
 
Stalin's only daughter - Lana - just died of colon cancer. I believe she was 85.
 
@OP: Weak sauce.
 
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Graffias said:
Below 1953 article in the The Pittsburgh Press admits 2.8 million German POWs taken by the Soviet Union have died, and another 700,000 are still listed as "missing."

Only around 20,000 German POWs held in the Soviet Union would be repatriated to Germany after 1953.

The last surviving 10,000 German POWs were not released by the Soviets until 1955.

Thus, around 3.5 million German POWs perished while in Soviet captivity

The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

.View attachment 67118872
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Yeah - the numbers are wrong . .. but since when did Russia ever present itself as some sort of 'we care' country?
 
It was posted in 1953. It was during the Cold War, the last year of the Korean War. Of course it will be garbage, seeing how US press will be heavily anti-Soviet.
It was also posted in 1953, 8 years after the end of WWII, when facts and statistics were still unclear and muddy, and lies made up during the war was still believed.
Also, don't forget Soviet propaganda
 
Really? Does it really need to be spelled out for you why the cited Pittspurgh Press article is a load of crap?

The article was published in January 1953, at the height of the Cold War and in the midst of the Korean War. It openly cites the reason for its publication to be the issue of Korean POW's. But hey, agendas aside, this article is complete crap because it cites absolutely nothing regarding these figures. "Estimates of NATO experts" means absolutely jack ****.

Even more pitiful, it openly admits that it is wrong in the very first paragraph:

An enigma of modern times is the fate of the German servicemen and civilian internees still held prisoner in Russia. They've never even been accurately counted.
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Emphasis mine. So this article right off the bat states they have never been counted, then in the very next sentence, goes on to count them. How much more illegitimate can you get?
 
Graffias said:
How exactly is it "garbage"?
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You are posting 60 year old cold war propaganda and expect it to be taken seriously. The American media had zero access and couldn't have made an accurate estimate even if they wanted to. The aircraft loss numbers in the other article illustrate the lack of information compared to contemporary sources. I'm interested in the truth, you are interested in exaggerating numbers to demonize the USSR. Its especially ridiculous as the Soviets already look bad enough without your distortion.
 
rathi said:
You are posting 60 year old cold war propaganda and expect it to be taken seriously. The American media had zero access and couldn't have made an accurate estimate even if they wanted to. The aircraft loss numbers in the other article illustrate the lack of information compared to contemporary sources. I'm interested in the truth, you are interested in exaggerating numbers to demonize the USSR. Its especially ridiculous as the Soviets already look bad enough without your distortion.
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So: the truth is that the Russians loved and cared for everyone and never killed and prisoner's of war.

Exaggerations here? yes . . . but outright lies? No. Does it make Russia look bad? No more than they already did.

Now - if we can't even get accurate figures on just how many people Russia purged on their own territory of her own people then how are we suppose to really dig up solid facts on these numbers?
 
Proud South Korean said:
It was posted in 1953. It was during the Cold War, the last year of the Korean War. Of course it will be garbage, seeing how US press will be heavily anti-Soviet.
It was also posted in 1953, 8 years after the end of WWII, when facts and statistics were still unclear and muddy, and lies made up during the war was still believed.
Also, don't forget Soviet propaganda
Click to expand...

Khayembii Communique said:
Really? Does it really need to be spelled out for you why the cited Pittspurgh Press article is a load of crap?

The article was published in January 1953, at the height of the Cold War and in the midst of the Korean War. It openly cites the reason for its publication to be the issue of Korean POW's. But hey, agendas aside, this article is complete crap because it cites absolutely nothing regarding these figures. "Estimates of NATO experts" means absolutely jack ****.

Even more pitiful, it openly admits that it is wrong in the very first paragraph:



Emphasis mine. So this article right off the bat states they have never been counted, then in the very next sentence, goes on to count them. How much more illegitimate can you get?
Click to expand...

rathi said:
You are posting 60 year old cold war propaganda and expect it to be taken seriously. The American media had zero access and couldn't have made an accurate estimate even if they wanted to. The aircraft loss numbers in the other article illustrate the lack of information compared to contemporary sources. I'm interested in the truth, you are interested in exaggerating numbers to demonize the USSR. Its especially ridiculous as the Soviets already look bad enough without your distortion.
Click to expand...

Ya'll realize that you still haven't proven anything, right?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Yeah - the numbers are wrong . .. but since when did Russia ever present itself as some sort of 'we care' country?
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exactly I dont think Russia tried to keep it a secret either!
 
As a German, I don't really feel in a good position to complain about the Soviet crimes on Germans during or post-WW2. You folks here, not being German, are in the comfortable situation to comment on it without getting involved in the context trap.

Whenever I meet fellow Germans who complain about these crimes against Germans between 1939 and 1945+, I usually have the impression they are revisionists who attempt to play down Germany's crimes (not that I met them in person, but you sometimes find them on internet boards or read about them in the press -- for example, officials of the organizations of "Germans dispelled from home", which, yes, for some weird reason still exist and still get some attention).

How to handle the problem? Without any doubt, crimes against humanity are crimes, no matter if they were committed by or against Germans. But still I don't think it feels right when Germans complain about it, without in the same sentence taking German crimes against the Soviets and other victims into account. Anything else smells too much like revisionism for my taste.

So when a German starts doing that, I usually tell him something like "yeah, what did you expect. After all we did to them, it's no wonder the Soviets were pissed. We murdered 20 million of them, so every Soviet soldier had lost at least one family member, so you can't really expect clean warfare from them. So if you want to blame anybody, blame Hitler for causing this mess in the first place."

That doesn't absolve the Soviets from their crimes, but I believe it places the emphasis of blame where it belongs.
 
apdst said:
Ya'll realize that you still haven't proven anything, right?
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We don't have to because the OP's article didn't, either. All we had to do was point this out.

Aunt Spiker said:
Then that means you missed my point. . . and I've written far worse - you need to read more :D
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What was your point, outside of pointless hyperbole? Where did anyone say anything even close to the turd you crapped out in this thread?

"The Nazi's killed 60 billion people!"
"No they didn't you idiot..."
"Oh they were all just a bunch of harmless Teletubbies then weren't they, that's what you're saying isn't it!"

:roll:
 
Khayembii Communique said:
We don't have to because the OP's article didn't, either. All we had to do was point this out.



What was your point, outside of pointless hyperbole? Where did anyone say anything even close to the turd you crapped out in this thread?

"The Nazi's killed 60 billion people!"
"No they didn't you idiot..."
"Oh they were all just a bunch of harmless Teletubbies then weren't they, that's what you're saying isn't it!"

:roll:
Click to expand...

Oh - you thought I was seriously implying that they were all about peace and love.
 
German guy said:
As a German, I don't really feel in a good position to complain about the Soviet crimes on Germans during or post-WW2. You folks here, not being German, are in the comfortable situation to comment on it without getting involved in the context trap.

Whenever I meet fellow Germans who complain about these crimes against Germans between 1939 and 1945+, I usually have the impression they are revisionists who attempt to play down Germany's crimes (not that I met them in person, but you sometimes find them on internet boards or read about them in the press -- for example, officials of the organizations of "Germans dispelled from home", which, yes, for some weird reason still exist and still get some attention).

How to handle the problem? Without any doubt, crimes against humanity are crimes, no matter if they were committed by or against Germans. But still I don't think it feels right when Germans complain about it, without in the same sentence taking German crimes against the Soviets and other victims into account. Anything else smells too much like revisionism for my taste.

So when a German starts doing that, I usually tell him something like "yeah, what did you expect. After all we did to them, it's no wonder the Soviets were pissed. We murdered 20 million of them, so every Soviet soldier had lost at least one family member, so you can't really expect clean warfare from them. So if you want to blame anybody, blame Hitler for causing this mess in the first place."

That doesn't absolve the Soviets from their crimes, but I believe it places the emphasis of blame where it belongs.
Click to expand...

I see the uneasiness about trying to play down German crimes. However, a crime against a people serving a government that people regard as wicked is still a crime. Also, many of the men who died were probably conscripts. The old debate about the culpability of the average German at this time applies, but not everyone in the German army was a monster. Both the Red Army and Wehrmacht committed countless atrocities. You don't need to make **** up to show this or worry that pointing out one side's atrocities somehow denigrates the memory of what the other side did. If tales of atrocities on one side are used to downplay the atrocities on the other, simply tell them what you would tell a small child, that two wrongs don't make a right. A pox on both Stalin's and Hitler's governments.
 
Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia. The scum of the scum. A pox on both their houses. The Nazis murdered millions of Russians. The Russians murdered Millions of Germans. Seems like a wash to me
 
Proud South Korean said:
It was posted in 1953. It was during the Cold War, the last year of the Korean War. Of course it will be garbage, seeing how US press will be heavily anti-Soviet.
It was also posted in 1953, 8 years after the end of WWII, when facts and statistics were still unclear and muddy, and lies made up during the war was still believed.
Also, don't forget Soviet propaganda
Click to expand...

It's a newspaper article... from 1953... haha.
 
FluffyNinja said:
You've been around since '06, and this is the "worst" you've seen? Wow! Just.....wow.
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I know - I mean - I've tried real hard to be a stupid twat and it hurts my feelings knowing that Communique just doesn't see it all :(
 
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