Should having a child require a course to complete on parenting and a psychological evaluation?

[humbolt]

Absolutely. Further, having worked for the federal government, I firmly believe one of those telephone book sized background checks, complete with genetic testing, should be completed. We'll get the duds weeded out. You could be 55 before you get an approval. Maybe you should adopt. They're more lenient in such instances. Here's a prospective adoptee. Bear in mind we try to keep the relative ages between parents and their children in line with what uninformed and probably undesirable parents would have been back in less enlightened times.

 

[Goshin]

I would like to add that on the opposite end of the financial spectrum, I've observed absolutely dreadful parenting.

Quite true. It really depends more on character, not money.

But maintaining a tradition of good character in a family, across generations, is probably a lot harder amid desperate poverty than reasonable prosperity.

 

[justabubba]

Not always, that depends on where you live. And to the extent dog licenses are required it’s nearly always a grift for the city to make more money.

I mean other than getting a birth certificate, and an SSN, and filing for child tax credit, and enrolling in school, and myriad other things.

that's the problem
the parents do not get a SSN for their kids
if they will get a refund due to the children they will go to a tax preparer, otherwise, no
when the kid arrives in school they have often never seen a book
many are far below their age developmental level. you can probably guess why
those critical early years when essential learning should happen, it does not when shitty parents are involved

 

[Goshin]

Nah. Just do what Finland does.

Which is?

 

[nota bene]

I grew up with an alcoholic. It taught me how bad alcohol can be and I only drank occasionally. I shared this with my kids. Sometimes experience can be a good teacher.

I grew up with two. But even before they developed drinking problems, their attitude was to distrust their kids until they had proven themselves. So, for example, the teacher/neighbor/adult was always right. I did the opposite: I trusted my kids until they proved themselves untrustworthy. I also never introduced them to "Mr. Brown Belt" or "Mr. Black Belt."

 

[ttwtt78640]

That is how I learned.

WOW! Without the sage advice from elites paid for by the state, passing their test and getting a license at all.

 

[Bodi]

Right. However, it is implementation that I see as impractical, not that states such as Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Mississippi and other red states wouldn't or won't attempt to mandate new parent training. In short, the task would be monumental, costly and difficult to enforce.

Sure, I'd like to see more responsible parents raising children in the US but almost every week I see parents who apparently little or no motivation to parent responsibly.

Just this week - as I have seen on more than one occasion - a young child with parents watching played on the baggage conveyer at the airport. WTF? Right? All it takes is one second for the a bag to fall or slide onto the child or for a shoe lace or belt or hair on the child's head to get snagged into the moving conveyer parts and BOOM. Another child baked to death in the car while a parent was "just running in for a minute" to a store. On and on and on. You've seen it as has everyone reading this.

Would training work? I feckin doubt it.

Good post... nothing will make the world perfect or parents doing the right thing everty time... but surely not allowing gang members or murderers or child abusers or people with IQs that lead them to the dumbest of dumb decisions or those stuck in poverty because of lack of education, etc. to not have kids is a good place to start.

 

[Bullseye]

We have far too many government "experts" making rules and decisions for us now. And that doesn't even count elected officials.

 

[nota bene]

Quite true. It really depends more on character, not money.

But maintaining a tradition of good character in a family, across generations, is probably a lot harder amid desperate poverty than reasonable prosperity.

Yes, it is, and you touched on this in mentioning intergenerational poverty. I work with a charitable org that serves the poorest of the poor, and one issue is that many people genuinely cannot fathom making a decision that isn't of instant benefit. Put a little money aside for a tomorrow that may never come? Why, that's just crazy!

 

[Overitall]

I grew up with two. But even before they developed drinking problems, their attitude was to distrust their kids until they had proven themselves. So, for example, the teacher/neighbor/adult was always right. I did the opposite: I trusted my kids until they proved themselves untrustworthy. I also never introduced them to "Mr. Brown Belt" or "Mr. Black Belt."

Well, there you have it. What's that saying about the apple. Sometimes it's not always true and you can choose your own courses in life despite the choices of your parents.

 

[Goshin]

Yes, it is, and you touched on this in mentioning intergenerational poverty. I work with a charitable org that serves the poorest of the poor, and one issue is that many people genuinely cannot fathom making a decision that isn't of instant benefit. Put a little money aside for a tomorrow that may never come? Why, that's just crazy!

It's survival mentality. When tomorrow is a cloud of uncertainty and anxiety, you tend to live for today, for the moment. Planning for the future is all but impossible, because surviving NOW is hard enough.

 

[nota bene]

Yep, me too. I’m fortunate that my parents were committed to doing a good job, and I was a handful.

Parenting is the most rewarding and the most difficult job I’ve ever had. I’d like to have had some “do overs” but as a parent you don’t get those.

Nope. And Mark Twain was right about how when he was 26, his dad became so much smarter.

 

[Bodi]

Granted. I've spent time in neighborhoods were generational poverty and ignorance was endemic. It was horrifying. The hell they were in was exemplified by their inability to conceive of getting out and living a better way.

But what exactly do we do? I remember some Republican in the 80s proposed sterilizing all welfare recipients... the outcry was enormous, he was lucky to escape tar and feathers and being run out of town on a rail.

Mandatory classes on parenting? That's lovely... maybe it would even help a little. But only a little. When all your life has been a hell of ignorance and despair a few classes probably won't change you enough.

Or stop them from having kids and repeating the cycle.

I don't have the answer. Wish I did, but I don't think this idea would ever fly.

 

[nota bene]

It's survival mentality. When tomorrow is a cloud of uncertainty and anxiety, you tend to live for today, for the moment. Planning for the future is all but impossible, because surviving NOW is hard enough.

That's right, Goshin. I couldn't have said this better.

 

[reinaert]

Which is?

It's 'almost free' to have a baby in Finland—and feels like 'the whole country is providing for a child'

In Finland, the cost of giving birth is next to nothing. In the U.S., recent studies suggest that the out-of-pocket spending for maternity care costs $4,500 on average, meanwhile maternal mortality rates are increasing. Here, experts explain the broader implications of this discrepancy.

www.cnbc.com

No grammar schools, lots of play: the secrets of Europe’s top education system

In Finland children don’t start school until they are seven, but what happens before that is even more important

www.theguardian.com

 

[Goshin]

I found that having deep family roots helps a lot. A large extended family with mostly-shared-values makes it easier for the child to take your teaching seriously. The child sees it isn't just YOU that believes all this stuff, and they get to see the benefits of these values in relatives of various ages.

When Son#1 was old enough to start going out on his own, I told him "Neither your father, nor your grandfather, nor your great-grandfather ever spent a night in jail... try not to break the tradition."

So far he hasn't disappointed me.

 

[Bodi]

I'm not the one claiming to have the answer.

Wish I did. Pretty sure this one will never fly though.

When I was a 13yo student studying world affairs, I came up with a plan to end the Arab/Israeli conflict. It was a very good plan. If it had been accepted and implemented correctly it should have worked.

What I failed to take into account, at the age of 13, was there was no way in hell it would ever be accepted by enough people to be implemented, and if implemented too many would have tried to pervert it to their own ends for it to succeed. In short, it was a great plan that was doomed to fail by human nature.

Like this one.

Are you saying that you should have won the Nobel Peace Prize but because others are ageist you were denied the chance?

 

[Goshin]

Are you saying that you should have won the Nobel Peace Prize but because others are ageist you were denied the chance?

Haha. No.

I'm saying I was young and naive and thought a good idea was enough.

What's your excuse?

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's survival mentality. When tomorrow is a cloud of uncertainty and anxiety, you tend to live for today, for the moment. Planning for the future is all but impossible, because surviving NOW is hard enough.

When you find yourself up to your ass in angry alligators, it is very hard to remember that your mission was simply to drain the swamp.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

that's the problem
the parents do not get a SSN for their kids

Yes they do, you have to sign a form to get it

if they will get a refund due to the children they will go to a tax preparer,

Which famously involves no paperwork

otherwise, no
when the kid arrives in school they have often never seen a book

Hmmm I don’t believe that

many are far below their age developmental level. you can probably guess why

Because of the breakdown of intermediate institutions, caused purposefully by the left

those critical early years when essential learning should happen, it does not when shitty parents are involved

 

[Bodi]

Haha. No.

I'm saying I was young and naive and thought a good idea was enough.

What's your excuse?

Oh, I won.

 

[justabubba]

Many words to say “nothing”.

not receiving a parenting license could be consequential
showing up at the delivery room without it gets a report to social services to follow up and respond appropriately
if the parents are ineligible/unlicensed, then they lose eligibility for ANY future government services
they also get sterilized
somehow, my sense is most would not see that as "nothing"

 

[Goshin]

not receiving a parenting license could be consequential
showing up at the delivery room without it gets a report to social services to follow up and respond appropriately
if the parents are ineligible/unlicensed, then they lose eligibility for ANY future government services
they also get sterilized
somehow, my sense is most would not see that as "nothing"

So then the child maybe suffers, because the parents are denied gov services.

Maybe a less than ideal consequence.

 

[justabubba]

Quite true. It really depends more on character, not money.

character is critical
but so is means
without having means to care for themselves, how can the parents of children care for them properly

But maintaining a tradition of good character in a family, across generations, is probably a lot harder amid desperate poverty than reasonable prosperity.

absolutely. there are losers who are wealthy. i am not even going to point to an obvious example, who should be found ineligible to father any children
such ilk should be disqualified for a parenting license just as wonderful, caring people having limited means should receive one, if their means is even nominally adequate

 

[justabubba]

It's survival mentality. When tomorrow is a cloud of uncertainty and anxiety, you tend to live for today, for the moment. Planning for the future is all but impossible, because surviving NOW is hard enough.

so i ask, why should prospects have a child in the midst of such uncertainty
that child only makes a difficult situation worse
hell of a situation for a newborn to enter the world within