• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:

In addition, the framework, as described in the legislation as well as "FAQs" from Ocasio-Cortez's office, calls for a variety of other lofty goals:

"upgrading all existing buildings" in the country for energy efficiency;
working with farmers "to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions... as much as is technologically feasible" (while supporting family farms and promoting "universal access to healthy food");
"Overhauling transportation systems" to reduce emissions — including expanding electric car manufacturing, building "charging stations everywhere," and expanding high-speed rail to "a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary";
A guaranteed job "with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations and retirement security" for every American;
"High-quality health care" for all Americans.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.
 
Last edited:

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,937
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The New Green Steal will destroy the economy.
 

Keridan

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
2,151
Location
Raleigh NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Usual fails with this kind of insanity. Even the linked article points out the most glaring idiocies, such as no idea at all where the several trillion dollars comes from or how to achieve a 30 year goal in ten years or how in the world enough transportation overhaul could be done to revolutionize air travel and get rid of as much as possible.

It's an outlandish wish list that is not viable in any way or even close.

My plan is about the same. I'm gonna give everyone a billion dollars, but avoid any inflation when I do so. Everyone will also get a puppy that never dies and a house that flies on the power of dreams wherever you want to go.
 

j-mac

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
40,296
Reaction score
11,692
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:



Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal an equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.
:lamo...while we're at it we can solve the origins of the universe, build Star Trek's USS Enterprise, give everyone a million dollars cash, and cure cancer....This is truly bat **** crazy.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Usual fails with this kind of insanity. Even the linked article points out the most glaring idiocies, such as no idea at all where the several trillion dollars comes from or how to achieve a 30 year goal in ten years or how in the world enough transportation overhaul could be done to revolutionize air travel and get rid of as much as possible.

It's an outlandish wish list that is not viable in any way or even close.

My plan is about the same. I'm gonna give everyone a billion dollars, but avoid any inflation when I do so. Everyone will also get a puppy that never dies and a house that flies on the power of dreams wherever you want to go.

The problem with your wishful thinking crap is that we've been having wishful thinking for the past 100 years in the hopes that rich people will invest in our national infrastructure. We actually got so bad we elected a rich guy who wanted to build a wall and he can't even do that properly! If there's legislative framework for upgrading infrastructure and fixing the transit system. I'm all for it.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
:lamo...while we're at it we can solve the origins of the universe, build Star Trek's USS Enterprise, give everyone a million dollars cash, and cure cancer....This is truly bat **** crazy.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk

Cause building a wall is working out so well for you guys.
 

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,937
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The problem with your wishful thinking crap is that we've been having wishful thinking for the past 100 years in the hopes that rich people will invest in our national infrastructure. We actually got so bad we elected a rich guy who wanted to build a wall and he can't even do that properly! If there's legislative framework for upgrading infrastructure and fixing the transit system. I'm all for it.

When's the last time we elected a poor president?

This horse**** has nothing to do with upgrading infrastructure. It's about more control of the private sector and lining politicians and yes, rich peoples's pockets.
 

Keridan

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
2,151
Location
Raleigh NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
The problem with your wishful thinking crap is that we've been having wishful thinking for the past 100 years in the hopes that rich people will invest in our national infrastructure. We actually got so bad we elected a rich guy who wanted to build a wall and he can't even do that properly! If there's legislative framework for upgrading infrastructure and fixing the transit system. I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, there is no legislative framework here. This isn't some campaign promise about lowering taxes 3% on this group or fixing existing programs. This is crapping rainbows and mastering wizardry at Hogwarts. It's absolutely beyond insane. Read your own article. They can't even comprehend how she thinks any of it would be achieved, she just made some of the most absurd appeals to fantasy anyone in politics has ever said with a straight face and backed it up with nothing. Literally taking the wealth of all the top 5% (wealth, not even just income) wouldn't fund 0.01% of this dreamland.
 

celticwar17

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
6,540
Reaction score
2,524
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Cause building a wall is working out so well for you guys.

He's trying lol... What do you want him to do? Just because he is getting opposition from Democrats at every turn, doesn't mean he should stop trying...

Trying and failing due to opposition is a lot better then never trying to execute a campaign promise at all. I don't know what I would expect otherwise. I also have no idea what he should have done differently in order to build the wall.
 

ecofarm

global liberation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
133,426
Reaction score
43,216
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Plans are stupid. Just say whatever and promise others will pay. Is she a politician or what?
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Unfortunately, there is no legislative framework here. This isn't some campaign promise about lowering taxes 3% on this group or fixing existing programs. This is crapping rainbows and mastering wizardry at Hogwarts. It's absolutely beyond insane. Read your own article. They can't even comprehend how she thinks any of it would be achieved, she just made some of the most absurd appeals to fantasy anyone in politics has ever said with a straight face and backed it up with nothing. Literally taking the wealth of all the top 5% (wealth, not even just income) wouldn't fund 0.01% of this dreamland.

Our government framework itself is inherently broken and needs a major overhaul. I do this type of stuff for a living in the tech sector. I'm freaking tired of seeing measly 3% tax deals (loaded w/ lobbyist pork) nobody ever reads. The outline is now out there. If passed we'll have decades to figure it out and that's 100X better than relying on lobbyists b/c people like her and people like me who know that our system is broken will be elected in order to help figure it out and straighten out the mess.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
38,834
Reaction score
13,406
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:



Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.

If she truly wanted to reduce emissions and understood the problem, show would be advocating
streamlining solar grid attachment laws to something good for both the homeowner and the electrical utility,
as well as advocating development of power to liquid fuel plans.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/power-to-liquids/
A path to increased solar, will cause massive seasonal electricity surpluses, which could be converted to carbon neutral fuels for existing demands.
No new vehicles, no new service stations needed, fast and very direct results, by turning a problem we know is coming, into a solution.
 

Mongidig

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
13,385
Reaction score
7,764
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'm looking forward to watching the liberal tears again after Trump wins in 2020. Whacko's like AOC will make sure that happens.

The Democrats better cut these people off before it spreads too far.

Proposals like these look pretty on paper until you realize the cost and the unintended consequences. Then there is the not so good history of Socialism.
 

Keridan

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
4,183
Reaction score
2,151
Location
Raleigh NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Our government framework itself is inherently broken and needs a major overhaul. I do this type of stuff for a living in the tech sector. I'm freaking tired of seeing measly 3% tax deals (loaded w/ lobbyist pork) nobody ever reads. The outline is now out there. If passed we'll have decades to figure it out and that's 100X better than relying on lobbyists b/c people like her and people like me who know that our system is broken will be elected in order to help figure it out and straighten out the mess.

Okay, well, you enjoy your trip to disney land. Two quick points, though, this never gets taken seriously by anyone who could possibly pass it and you don't have decades when she sets a deadline of all buildings in the country of 340 million people to be upgraded to carbon neutral by 2030.

Anyway, if this floats your boat, more power to ya. I prefer to focus on things that involve sanity.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
He's trying lol... What do you want him to do? Just because he is getting opposition from Democrats at every turn, doesn't mean he should stop trying...

Trying and failing due to opposition is a lot better then never trying to execute a campaign promise at all. I don't know what I would expect otherwise. I also have no idea what he should have done differently in order to build the wall.

Which is why I said if AOC gets any of this passed she'll be on level playing field w/the President. He hasn't gotten a dime from Democrats. Will AOC get some Republican votes on this? They seem to like her tax plan.
 

Nilly

stb
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
6,873
Reaction score
3,809
Location
DC
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
As the article states, this is a non-binding resolution, it’s only the first step towards what should be significant further legislation on each point.

Paying back our climate debt is going to take aggressive actions, which is exactly what this is. If you want to be angry at someone/thing, blame the destructive irresponsible actions of corporations and our lack of will to regulate throughout the last 100 years. We have taken a loan out on the climate and now it’s left to future generations to pay it back.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Okay, well, you enjoy your trip to disney land. Two quick points, though, this never gets taken seriously by anyone who could possibly pass it and you don't have decades when she sets a deadline of all buildings in the country of 340 million people to be upgraded to carbon neutral by 2030.

Anyway, if this floats your boat, more power to ya. I prefer to focus on things that involve sanity.

Then I expect to see you at the next #impeachthemf rally.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
89,765
Reaction score
53,396
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:



Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.

Let's just start with those guaranteed (federal?) jobs with a family sustaining wage, paid vacations and retirement security. Once that little nugget is in place then much of the rest becomes unnecessary. Of course, the lack of a private sector to tax might be a tad of a problem but I'm sure AOC can work around that minor detail.
 

Bum

I survived. Suck it, Schrodinger.
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
14,925
Reaction score
11,343
Location
Home
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
"upgrading all existing buildings" in the country for energy efficiency;
working with farmers "to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions... as much as is technologically feasible" (while supporting family farms and promoting "universal access to healthy food");
"Overhauling transportation systems" to reduce emissions — including expanding electric car manufacturing, building "charging stations everywhere," and expanding high-speed rail to "a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary";
A guaranteed job "with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations and retirement security" for every American;
"High-quality health care" for all Americans.


All in 10 years?


I cant fault her enthusiasm, but I do question her math......seems she will come up trillions short.
 

ElChupacabra

Me cago en las cabras!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
25,294
Reaction score
16,706
Location
The Garden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Those are some lofty goals, and not that I disagree with the outcome per se, but how you make all of that happen is the real question. There are a lot of factors here to make something like this work; including how this affects the current energy paradigm. Personally, I think this is something that works best when it's a market driven force rather than mandated exclusively through the government. The challenge is we can't effectively transition from fossil fuels to alternative fuels and provide the same level of output. If we can't do that, it's going to be hard to create the kind of demand that would create a market demand for that type of energy.

Then of course there is the issue of funding, and without a clear plan I can't see myself supporting something like this.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Let's just start with those guaranteed (federal?) jobs with a family sustaining wage, paid vacations and retirement security. Once that little nugget is in place then much of the rest becomes unnecessary. Of course, the lack of a private sector to tax might be a tad of a problem but I'm sure AOC can work around that minor detail.

That might be a step towards universal income, I can't say I agree with this one, but again it's a wide proposal that I agree with 90%. She's looking at this stuff with clear eyes.
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
31,974
Reaction score
30,885
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The overreaction is off the chart, it is just a nonbinding resolution with no greater strength than a congratulations to the save the northern spotted owl society.

The outline itself has plenty to agree with and plenty to be critical of, but this is hardly breaking news... even if it does set off all the conservatives already freaking out over anything she says, or even wears.
 

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
25,357
Reaction score
11,556
Location
Post-Trump America
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Those are some lofty goals, and not that I disagree with the outcome per se, but how you make all of that happen is the real question. There are a lot of factors here to make something like this work; including how this affects the current energy paradigm. Personally, I think this is something that works best when it's a market driven force rather than mandated exclusively through the government. The challenge is we can't effectively transition from fossil fuels to alternative fuels and provide the same level of output. If we can't do that, it's going to be hard to create the kind of demand that would create a market demand for that type of energy.

Then of course there is the issue of funding, and without a clear plan I can't see myself supporting something like this.

While companies do invest in infrastructure it's only to help the company itself. No companies have invested to help fix either the NJtransit system or the MTA. These public transit systems are over 100 years old that millions of people use everyday and Amazon coming into queens announcing no plans to try to help jump-start that seems to disprove your point, just as a local example.
 

Kobie

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
48,281
Reaction score
25,273
Location
Western NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
He's trying lol... What do you want him to do? Just because he is getting opposition from Democrats at every turn, doesn't mean he should stop trying...

Trying and failing due to opposition is a lot better then never trying to execute a campaign promise at all. I don't know what I would expect otherwise. I also have no idea what he should have done differently in order to build the wall.

He had two years with a GOP House and GOP Senate and didn’t do dick. Don’t give me this “opposition from the Democrats” bull****.
 
Top Bottom