Racist Paedophile ring [W:348 & 389]

[PoS]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Probably because rape is an exceedingly hateful act.

If you had no respect for the humanity or equality of another, would you not be more inclined to degrade them?

Pedophiles rape children not to degrade them, they do it because they are sexually attracted to them, like gays being sexually attracted to the same sex. The term rape in childhood sex abuse is a different term- its not forced sex but rather statutory rape which is sex with a minor (even if consented).

 

[Manc Skipper]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

As usual with these threads, half-truths and flat racist lies reign supreme. To put the racist peadophile ring into context, they were unusual in the number and length of time they operated before being caught. They were also in the minority in terms of child abuse in Britain. Something approaching 80-90% of such offences in Britain are committed by white British males. There may be a case for suggesting that their ethnicity allowed them to get away with their crime for longer than otherwise might have been the case, but not to their committing the crime itself.
It could also be the case that the ethnicity of the victims was also a factor, but only to the extent that they were the ones out there on the street, available and vulnerable, where kids of other ethnicities were not.

Nazir Afzal:

 

[maquiscat]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Pedophiles rape children not to degrade them, they do it because they are sexually attracted to them, like gays being sexually attracted to the same sex. The term rape in childhood sex abuse is a different term- its not forced sex but rather statutory rape which is sex with a minor (even if consented).

I'm going to change that to "may be" since sometimes the child in question could actually be raped as well, insofar as they don't consent or do so under duress instead of ignorance which would then make it statutory. Ultimately we have to look at the two side of rape; the victim and the perpetrator. In many pedophile cases the perpetrator is not out to rape the child per se', although that is what happens to the child. In most adult cases the perpetrator is actually out to rape the victim.

 

[Andalublue]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I can't go into quote by quote Andy, I'm pushed for time.

No problem, Paul. I appreciate that not everyone has as much free time as I have at the moment. I'm still in holiday mode, don't start back at work until next week.

What I will say is I think I covered pretty much exactly the line of argument you pursue in my previous post. Without going back to my link, it stated "there are various models of sexual grooming etc." And? That it NO way invalidates what we have within the Asian community. No one is suggesting that Asians make up the vast majority, or even a small majority. To pursue this line is wide off the mark, IMO. Like I said previously, a comparative analysis will tell us very little, that should be glaringly obvious. I mean I could say the majority of paedophiles in the UK are white, and? Or, the majority of paedophiles are white, work alone, are deeply devious and groom friends children, children that are familiar to them, and? So, we can safely say the Asian grooming gangs are another model with its own set of parameters. To my knowledge, they 'left their own community alone' quite unique. Worked in fairly large Asian gangs. Passed around their victims to brothers, cousins etc. fairly unique. My point, is these 'models' are simply that, models of types or acts of paedophilia. To offer, as you seem to suggest, as counter evidence (of what I'm not actually sure?) as this and other examples (the Catholic church) in no way counters what we are discussing. The cases in question show a systemic problem, within the Muslim community. The portion for debate is how 'big' a problem?

I agree completely. What I was highlighting is that last point by YAB, that unless we are careful to focus upon this as a matter of criminology, as distinct patterns of behaviour that certain strands of perpetrator use and others don't, we are in danger of relinquishing this argument to those who would use it to perpetuate the idea that this is simply another aspect of the clash of civilisations. It's not, it's a matter of dealing with a particular MO that may indeed emerge from immigrant cultural assumptions and attitudes and may be muddied by racial and religious sensitivities, but it's crime.

To imagine that it's something we just have to accept as being in any way normative of the immigrant communities lets the criminals off the hook. "We can't help it; it's part of our culture" doesn't cut it. It's not a part of any culture, it's an aberration of any culture.

Like a previous opinion piece stated: "what would be said if white only men travelled the Muslim community for Asian girls?" What do you think would be said Andy?

That it is an aberration of the culture from which those perpetrators come. It's not inherent.

Would it be labelled as a racist case? Very probably, although that would be as prone to assumptions and misconceptions as this case may show. Might this Rotherham case involve racist attitudes and motivations? It may, it well may, but who is ruling this out as a possibility? I don't think IC, Arcana, Serenity or I have made that assertion, have we?

 

[Andalublue]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

There may be a case for suggesting that their ethnicity allowed them to get away with their crime for longer than otherwise might have been the case, but not to their committing the crime itself.

Both may be the case, no? I think that as yet we simply don't know.

 

[Gardener]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

: "what would be said if white only men travelled the Muslim community for Asian girls?" What do you think would be said Andy?

Paul

Or Neo Nazis in Britain targeting only Muslim girls?

Would these same posters here who have so obviously helped enable this practice in the first place still be yapping away hysterically about "lies" if somebody told the truth about it?

 

[Gardener]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Just one example please. .

Well, people can certainly see what you are up to in this thread

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/137961-britain-victims-political-correctness.html

Now, I realize that as a person who has been the #1 supporter of Sharia courts operating in Britain even after it has been pointed out how they discriminate against women that you have a wee bit of a problem seeing women as equal to men, and I realize you will stop at nothing by way of trying to obscure the fact it is your fellow Muslims who are degrading British girls like they are, but my most sincere hope is that a few more Brits out there will say "enough is enough" to your crap. You are used to bullying your way to get whatever you want but it is time for people to start saying "no". No to your sharia. No to your misogyny. No to your intimidation.

You weren't able to bully Lizzie when you called her out, so you resorted to caling out Pinkie who is no longer here to defend herself, so you obviously have problems with women. That is the most telling facet of these threads in that it really tells people what you are all about. You may couch your rhetotic in all sorts of weasely double talk to indicate yours is a soft Islamism rather than hard and you are working towards a gradual undermining of Britain instead of a violent one, but all you are doing is acting the role of the good cop to the the hard Islamists bad cop in this routine. It's pretty effing obvious what you are up to, though.

These rapes were commited by Muslims targeting vulnerable British girls, they were widespread, they represent attitudes that are endemic to much of Briton's Muslim population, they are the product of hatred of the values of the host community, and they have been enabled through the very sort of intimidation you practice regularly.

 

[Gardener]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Who says racism is only about "feeling superior to ALL other races"? What I will say is these, mainly Pakistani Muslims, feel far--far superior to not ONLY WOMEN in general, but far--far--far more superior to those poor "white trash" girls they repeatedly abused, raped, continually intimidated and degraded. That you want to attribute some general hypothesis that racism has to mean; 'every Pakistani man must hate ALL white girls' for the accusation of racism to be true, is a measure of your understanding of what the term denotes. Long gone are the days, when such a term was solely attributed to the 'Nazi skinhead' of the far right. That you fail to see racism in a dissimilar 'setting' says more about your 'box like intelligence'.

The misogynistic attitude of these communities (yes communities) should tell you much:


"But the reality is that in pockets across Britain vulnerable white teenagers are being groomed and then trafficked to satisfy the cravings of Asian men, the vast majority of them Pakistani.

Some of the perpetrators are young bucks who attract girls through their good looks and fast cars, and then pass them on to older friends and relatives."

Rochdale grooming trial: Asian grooming gangs, the uncomfortable issue - Telegraph

Furthermore, when cases have gone to court family members (mothers/fathers) have insisted that it is "the fault of these girls" that their male members of the family have done this. They do not see it as 'what it is'. I could go on, and on. To fully understand this you have to take in the 'whole narrative' not focus on snippets of information, and then present it as evidence that counters the systemic issue.

Moreover:

"Then Sue Berelowitz, the lamentably foolish deputy children’s commissioner, trots out her lame line that Asian men targeting white girls is “just one of a number of models”, even though such “models” account for an improbably large proportion of all gang sexual abuse. Did Berelowitz not hear Nazir Afzal, Chief Crown Prosecutor for North West England, when he blamed “imported cultural baggage” for appalling crimes by members of his own community? “The men think that women are some lesser being,” he said.

Oxford grooming gang: We will regret ignoring Asian thugs who target white girls - Telegraph

The bolded part is the 'systemic PC part that has afflicted UK society'. Even now, a popular line of interviewees. What should be obvious, NO ONE denies 'these other model types' that's what many are struggling to comprehend. That we have white paedophiles operating the globe over, does that detract from the model in question: that racist, mainly Pakistani men, working in organized gangs are seeking 'white' vulnerable girls? Of course not.

Paul

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell

 

[gunner]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell

It's certainly starting to feel that way.

Paul

 

[Gardener]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

It's certainly starting to feel that way.

Paul

I'm glad you call yourself a progressive because your values are consistent with actual progressive values instead of just being a label to indicate doctrinaire leftist.

Why any group is given carte blanch to degrade women and children is beyond the pale. That people would dedicate themselves to obscuring the reasons for their actions is despicable. This isn't human progress. It is regression on such a massive scale that we might as well all move back to the caves.

 

[Baltim]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

There's plenty of Europeans who go to 3rd world countries for underage sex so does that make them racist too?

Quite possibly although it's also possible they go there because they are less likely to be caught as the police probably aren't as well resourced as in a first world country so they're less likely to be caught.

 

[Baltim]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

It is a problem in my eyes that we are so focused on the race and religion of the people involved when it happens to be Muslims, but ignore all the other similar crimes that happen in a much higher frequency.. relatively speaking.

In the last year there have been more exposes of paedophiles in Britain than I care to remember. The internet has been buzzing with tales of celebrities and politicians, usually white, abusing children for ages so your claim that these events are being ignored is specious.

Also, was the world's biggest paedophile ring only targeting children of a single ethnicity? Or perhaps a better description would be targeting children outside of a particular religion.

If you take a look at my posting history you'll see that I'm actually quite a fan of Islam - I even lived with a Muslim family when I travelled in Morocco - and am more likely to defend it than decry it but the simple fact is that there are some Muslims in Britain who feel whites and non Muslims are fair game.

I live in a town where almost 30% of the population is Asian, mainly Pakistani Muslims. I grew up amongst these people and have been invited into their homes and attended family celebrations such as weddings so I hate to say it, because people do have a tendency to tar whole groups because of the actions of a tiny minority, but this sort of stuff has been going on for quite a while and no amount of denying it will change the fact that it is happening and there is definitely a racial/religious supremacist aspect to it.

 

[gunner]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

In the last year there have been more exposes of paedophiles in Britain than I care to remember. The internet has been buzzing with tales of celebrities and politicians abusing children for ages so your claim that these events are being ignored is specious.

Also, was the world's biggest paedophile ring only targeting children of a single ethnicity?

If you take a look at my posting history you'll see that I'm actually quite a fan of Islam - I even lived with a Muslim family when I travelled in Morocco - and am more likely to defend it than decry it but the simple fact is that there are some Muslims in Britain who feel whites and non Muslims are fair game.

I live in a town where almost 30% of the population is Asian, mainly Pakistani Muslims. I hate to say it, because people do have a tendency to tar whole groups because of the actions of a tiny minority, but this sort of stuff has been going on for quite a while and no amount of denying it will change the fact that it is happening and there is definitely a racial/religious supremacist aspect to it.

I take what you say at face value, and it is very refreshing to again, see it labelled for 'what it is'. I still have friends from in and around Sheffield, and their only surprise is it took so long to come out. But then if we examine the PC aspect, it should not come as that much of a surprise. Thus far, at least the Labour party has taken steps to expel those that were in positions of relative influence (relative to what, is not obviously apparent at this stage). I feel, the danger--is we still do not get the step change needed, for fear of being called 'it's racist' to tackle said communities.

Paul

 

[gunner]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

It is a problem in my eyes that we are so focused on the race and religion of the people involved when it happens to be Muslims, but ignore all the other similar crimes that happen in a much higher frequency.. relatively speaking.

WHO is ignoring these 'similar' crimes? (by the way (although it was more likely unintentional) I'm glad you used "similar") denoting you accept these cases as 'dissimilar' to other 'models' of paedophilia.

Paul

 

[Baltim]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I take what you say at face value, and it is very refreshing to again, see it labelled for 'what it is'. I still have friends from in and around Sheffield, and their only surprise is it took so long to come out. But then if we examine the PC aspect, it should not come as that much of a surprise. Thus far, at least the Labour party has taken steps to expel those that were in positions of relative influence (relative to what, is not obviously apparent at this stage). I feel, the danger--is we still do not get the step change needed, for fear of being called 'it's racist' to tackle said communities.

Paul

I reckon Labour have only taken action because they had to be seen to act.

And I fear you're right that fear of causing offence will see this problem still not being tackled properly.

 

[Wiggen]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

The title of this thread is strange. Racist pedos? If they were racists why would they go after white girls unless they didnt like their own race?

Because rape is not a crime of passion or lust. It's a crime of domination and subjugation. You really didn't know that?

 

[PeteEU]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

WHO is ignoring these 'similar' crimes? (by the way (although it was more likely unintentional) I'm glad you used "similar") denoting you accept these cases as 'dissimilar' to other 'models' of paedophilia.

Paul

Society in general and especially the media as in my example. It was in the media for under a day, as are most mass arrests of pedophile gangs, unless of course they are Muslim.

 

[PoS]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Because rape is not a crime of passion or lust. It's a crime of domination and subjugation. You really didn't know that?

Quite possibly although it's also possible they go there because they are less likely to be caught as the police probably aren't as well resourced as in a first world country so they're less likely to be caught.

Soo, lemme see if I got this straight: a pedo who molests his own race is just a pedo but a pedo who molests other races is a racist pedo? Ok. Weeird.

 

[Wiggen]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

WHO is ignoring these 'similar' crimes? (by the way (although it was more likely unintentional) I'm glad you used "similar") denoting you accept these cases as 'dissimilar' to other 'models' of paedophilia.

Paul

Whenever confronted by overwhelming evidence that renders any argument you could possibly muster useless, the standard approach is to say 'yes, but look what (insert name here) does!'.

 

[Wiggen]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Soo, lemme see if I got this straight: a pedo who molests his own race is just a pedo but a pedo who molests other races is a racist pedo? Ok. Weeird.

No, a racist pedo is one who molests and rapes primarily because his victims, who are of a different race, are seen as inferior and worthy of being raped and brutalized. I know these are difficult concepts but find a quiet room and think about them for a while.

 

[PoS]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

No, a racist pedo is one who molests and rapes primarily because his victims, who are of a different race, are seen as inferior and worthy of being raped and brutalized. I know these are difficult concepts but find a quiet room and think about them for a while.

Sorry but your convoluted logic makes no sense. If a white Brit goes to Thailand and rapes young girls over there it doesnt make him a racist pedo but if a Pakistani Brit rapes white Brit girls then he is a racist because he aims to brutalize them because whites are inferior? Is that your logic?

 

[PeteEU]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

In the last year there have been more exposes of paedophiles in Britain than I care to remember. The internet has been buzzing with tales of celebrities and politicians, usually white, abusing children for ages so your claim that these events are being ignored is specious.

Yes for a day or two maybe. Even the revelations of a paedophile gang in Westminster was quickly pushed to one side. But this case of grooming.. pops up all the time.

Also, was the world's biggest paedophile ring only targeting children of a single ethnicity? Or perhaps a better description would be targeting children outside of a particular religion.

Irrelevant. A pedophile is a pedophile. Only reason to bring this up is to fan the flames of religious and racial war.

If you take a look at my posting history you'll see that I'm actually quite a fan of Islam - I even lived with a Muslim family when I travelled in Morocco - and am more likely to defend it than decry it but the simple fact is that there are some Muslims in Britain who feel whites and non Muslims are fair game.

And there are Whites who think blacks are fair game and dirty and so on. So what? I have met plenty of chauvinistic white males that think women are nothing but property.. in all age groups. Why is it suddenly a massive problem when the guy is a bit colored and Muslim?

I live in a town where almost 30% of the population is Asian, mainly Pakistani Muslims. I grew up amongst these people and have been invited into their homes and attended family celebrations such as weddings so I hate to say it, because people do have a tendency to tar whole groups because of the actions of a tiny minority, but this sort of stuff has been going on for quite a while and no amount of denying it will change the fact that it is happening and there is definitely a racial/religious supremacist aspect to it.

Yes but it is Islamic, or is it nationalism? I too have seen this. In Denmark we have a large Turkish population and here Turkish nationalism is ripe, despite many of the actually being born in Denmark. There is not much difference with the British Pakistani community, or even the British living in Spain. It has very little to do with religion but with national pride.

 

[Andalublue]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

In the last year there have been more exposes of paedophiles in Britain than I care to remember. The internet has been buzzing with tales of celebrities and politicians, usually white, abusing children for ages so your claim that these events are being ignored is specious.

You're right that major paedophile cases are not being ignored per se, although the Westminster ring seems to have conveniently disappeared, but what is ignored when discussing the other rings is the religion and ethnicity of perpetrators. When paedophile priests were being unearthed at a rate of knots a few years ago now, so many people falling over themselves to point out how this was an aberration from the Catholic faith. Here you'd get the distinct idea that the behaviour of the gang in Rotherham is an inevitable consequence of having Pakistani Moslems living amongst us. You must have been reading those claiming seriously that it's fairly mainstream Moslem belief that rape can be a form of jihad. WTF?

Also, was the world's biggest paedophile ring only targeting children of a single ethnicity? Or perhaps a better description would be targeting children outside of a particular religion.

You see, I don't believe, although I'm sure this will emerge at trial, that the criminals in Rotherham were targetting any particular race - they just went for what was available and that, in a borough where 93.2% of the population are white, is almost certain to be white.

I hate to say it, because people do have a tendency to tar whole groups because of the actions of a tiny minority, but this sort of stuff has been going on for quite a while and no amount of denying it will change the fact that it is happening and there is definitely a racial/religious supremacist aspect to it.

You're quite right, we have to be doubly vigilant, first to stamp out the behaviour, address the attitudes that cause it to happen and root out every last person who seeks to abuse the most vulnerable kids. No fear, no favour and no special treatment for any social or ethnic minority. Secondly, we have to protect those people who are likely to be the innocent victims of any hysterical and misinformed vigilante backlash. What's the betting there will be an increase in assaults on Asian shop-owners, 'Paki-bashing' sprees and fire-bombings of Mosques in the coming months? Rotherham's Moslem community must be feeling both shame and fear at the moment. There are fewer than 10,000 Moslems in the borough, they'll make an easy target.

 

[German guy]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

BBC News - Oxford exploitation trial: Guilty verdicts over child rapes

I have deliberately included 'Racist' in the title of this thread as all the guilty offenders were Asian, and mainly from the Pakistani community, and there victims were all young White girls. The crimes are absolutely despicable. As far as I can see, there looks to be no charges for racism, on top of all other charges; I wonder why?

Paul

When I saw a report about it on tv, they said several approaches to invistigate after first clues were known were halted, because the authorities were afraid of being accused of "racism". If that's true, that finally one example when it's legitimate to complain about "political correctness running amok".

I'm not sure if the Asians responsible for these deeds are "racists", or if it would be more appropriate finding another term, but obviously ethnicity did play a role here. Absolutely despicable.

 

[Grant]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Who says racism is only about "feeling superior to ALL other races"? What I will say is these, mainly Pakistani Muslims, feel far--far superior to not ONLY WOMEN in general, but far--far--far more superior to those poor "white trash" girls they repeatedly abused, raped, continually intimidated and degraded. That you want to attribute some general hypothesis that racism has to mean; 'every Pakistani man must hate ALL white girls' for the accusation of racism to be true, is a measure of your understanding of what the term denotes. Long gone are the days, when such a term was solely attributed to the 'Nazi skinhead' of the far right. That you fail to see racism in a dissimilar 'setting' says more about your 'box like intelligence'.

The misogynistic attitude of these communities (yes communities) should tell you much:


"But the reality is that in pockets across Britain vulnerable white teenagers are being groomed and then trafficked to satisfy the cravings of Asian men, the vast majority of them Pakistani.

Some of the perpetrators are young bucks who attract girls through their good looks and fast cars, and then pass them on to older friends and relatives."

Rochdale grooming trial: Asian grooming gangs, the uncomfortable issue - Telegraph

Furthermore, when cases have gone to court family members (mothers/fathers) have insisted that it is "the fault of these girls" that their male members of the family have done this. They do not see it as 'what it is'. I could go on, and on. To fully understand this you have to take in the 'whole narrative' not focus on snippets of information, and then present it as evidence that counters the systemic issue.

Moreover:

"Then Sue Berelowitz, the lamentably foolish deputy children’s commissioner, trots out her lame line that Asian men targeting white girls is “just one of a number of models”, even though such “models” account for an improbably large proportion of all gang sexual abuse. Did Berelowitz not hear Nazir Afzal, Chief Crown Prosecutor for North West England, when he blamed “imported cultural baggage” for appalling crimes by members of his own community? “The men think that women are some lesser being,” he said.

Oxford grooming gang: We will regret ignoring Asian thugs who target white girls - Telegraph

The bolded part is the 'systemic PC part that has afflicted UK society'. Even now, a popular line of interviewees. What should be obvious, NO ONE denies 'these other model types' that's what many are struggling to comprehend. That we have white paedophiles operating the globe over, does that detract from the model in question: that racist, mainly Pakistani men, working in organized gangs are seeking 'white' vulnerable girls? Of course not.

Paul

You can understand their feelings of superiority when Hindus effectively fight back to protect their women (as posted earlier), Muslims would certainly do the same I believe, but the White liberals remain docile and not only do not fight back, they try to hide what's going on. Who could possibly have respect for White trash like this? It seems that both Hindu men and Muslim men are superior to whatever other men are taking up space in the area.