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Racist Paedophile ring [W:348 & 389]

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re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I somehow doubt that your fellow travellers would make such a generous assessment of those papers.

True.

The guardian is extremely biased, and so doctrinaire it isn't even funny.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I somehow doubt that your fellow travellers would make such a generous assessment of those papers.

Those are my assessments of those news outlets and everyone is free to make up their mind.
I'm not in a hive-mind with anyone else, my thoughts are my own. And it also doesn't negate the fact that those are the sources which Pat Condell links to in his description box and that is what is he is basing his commentary on. It's a factual based commentary provided by a ton of sources from accross the ideological spectrum and most of which have a decent reputation.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I'm not in a hive-mind with anyone else, my thoughts are my own. .

True.

Now, if the same could only be said for those who have created the political climate responsible for people having to chose between protecting children or being accused of racism and Islamophobia .
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

True.

The guardian is extremely biased, and so doctrinaire it isn't even funny.

I love the Guardian. It's where I catch up on all of the evil things the U.S. and Israel have been doing. :lamo
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I love the Guardian. It's where I catch up on all of the evil things the U.S. and Israel have been doing. :lamo

and your parakeet appreciates your dedication, too, I'm sure!
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

You obviously do not actually care that it was Pakistani Men raping young girls as a product of Jihad, and that this was ignored because of the very people like yourself who will deny that fact and then turn around and attack people who point out the truth. In this continuous pattern of behavior stretching back for quite some time, you have displayed that you are EXACTLY the sort of person who contributed to creating this political climate where people feared they would experience something similar as you are doing.
Why do you keep referring to this as jihad?

I'm from Bradford in the UK and there have just been nearly sixty arrests in one of our boroughs of men for abusing girls so I'm well aware there is a definite problem - and have unfortunately been aware of this problem for years - but this isn't a jihad.

It's racism/religious supremacism and exploitation, nothing more. So why keep trying to paint this already disgusting situation as something that Muslims view as a holy duty?
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Why do you keep referring to this as jihad?

I'm from Bradford in the UK and there have just been nearly sixty arrests in one of our boroughs of men for abusing girls so I'm well aware there is a definite problem - and have unfortunately been aware of this problem for years - but this isn't a jihad.

It's racism/religious supremacism and exploitation, nothing more. So why keep trying to paint this already disgusting and something that Muslim men view as a holy duty?

They get their heads filled with all sorts of religious supremacism at their local Mosques replete with attitudes about the degenerate Kafirs, that's why. Jihad involves war with the infidels, and this is one way of going about it. The acts are akin to terrorism in that they are political, and are geared towards creating fear among the subject population.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

They get their heads filled with all sorts of religious supremacism at their local Mosques replete with attitudes about the degenerate Kafirs, that's why. Jihad involves war with the infidels, and this is one way of going about it. The acts are akin to terrorism in that they are political, and are geared towards creating fear among the subject population.
I think you're reading far too much into it to be honest. I agree with you that there are some mosques preaching religious supremacism and that there is a general disrespect towards kafirs among some Muslims but their actions aren't political, nor are they about creating terror.

What they are, are the acts of perverts who target vulnerable non-Muslim children (mainly girls) because they wouldn't dream of targeting Muslim girls for acts and treatment which is so un-Islamic.

Yes, there's racism and supremacism there aplenty but it really isn't a political act. It's perverts getting their rocks off.

Anecdotally, tensions rose in Bradford a couple of years ago because Muslim men were targeting Sikh girls in the same way. Men from the Sikh community tracked down some of the abusers and taught them a lesson they'll never forget. The cowards stopped targeting Sikh kids after that.

ETA: I'll also point out that it is a very small minority of Muslim men committing these horrible crimes, although it is likely that a lot more people knew about it and said nothing.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Anecdotally, tensions rose in Bradford a couple of years ago because Muslim men were targeting Sikh girls in the same way. Men from the Sikh community tracked down some of the abusers and taught them a lesson they'll never forget. The cowards stopped targeting Sikh kids after that.

.

I remember that one. They responded because the Sikh community believes in itself. Too much of the British community doesn't.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Do we know that yet? I wasn't aware that a list of all the victims, including their ethnic origin, had been made public. Do you have links that show that the victims were 100% white British?

What I do know, that which has been widely publicised, is, the overwhelming majority are white. That said, lets say 1, 10, 15 out of the conservative estimate of "1400" were of different colour, mixed race even. Would that make it any less racist? Moreover, it is this 'incessant' pursuit to find less than a 'smidgen' of evidence to protect these racist paedophiles, that is evermore worrisome. When some reporters/commentators now use appropriate 'vernacular' to actually call it as 'it is', you can see some of the less well 'conditioned' actually come to the life. The well 'conditioned' PC left are so aghast at the prospect of meeting such a challenge they go all out 'clutching at snippets of counter evidence' because reality is not the "brave new world" (Huxley) they are programmed to encounter. Very sad, but true.

For me, the evidence that speaks loudest is that which the victims have imparted. On at least three occasions young victims have used the term "white trash" as the term to which Asian men use towards them. Take that as you will. The systemic cultural PC aspect comes into play when these vulnerable victims came into contact with the authorities. The Police, social services, councillors et al are (not were) totally afflicted with this 'protect the Asian community' at all costs, for FEAR of upsetting some warped sense of community cohesion. Off the top of my head, so far, the Labour party has expelled 4 councillors for such complicity. Of course, you can dig out why they were expelled, and come to some less than damning conclusion, but would they (the Labour party) use words such as a culture problem? NO. Is it just coincidence this abuse dates back to 1997? Lets hope so.

Labour suspends four councillors who 'let down' Rotherham - Telegraph

"As Ed Miliband made clear last week, large numbers of young people in Rotherham were systematically abused and then let down by those who should have protected them. It cannot be allowed to stand."

'Institutional political correctness' probe ordered by Theresa May into Rotherham child abuse scandal - Telegraph

"The Jay Report last week detailed harrowing examples of girls from Rotherham - many of them in local authority care - who were raped, trafficked and threatened with extreme violence, and found that senior council officers, elected members and police officers were aware of the problem for years but failed to tackle it."

"She said that Communities Secretary Eric Pickles was likely to launch an inquiry into Rotherham Council’s handling of criminal allegations, amid concerns that officials were unwilling to pursue the cases because of fear of offending cultural sensitivities".

The following is a good overall piece: The Rotherham child abuse scandal is a tale of apologists, misogyny and double standards - Comment - Voices - The Independent

"The perpetrators are not paedophiles in the normal sense of the word. Racial and cultural odium as much as ugly lust and power drives them to abuse. Most of them are also irreversibly misogynist. It is a lethal mix, this sexist psychopathy"

In a nutshell:

"I ask them to think what they would feel if gangs of white men took out their girls, gave them presents, took them places, and then seduced, beat and passed them around. The men might say they were rescuing the girls from oppression, showing them a good time, saving them from a life of forced marriage and all that."

To continually look for ways to make this systemic acts, less abhorrent, is disgusting to say the least.

Paul
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Why do you keep referring to this as jihad-- snip-- It's racism/religious supremacism and exploitation, nothing more. So why keep trying to paint this already disgusting situation as something that Muslims view as a holy duty?

It fits an agenda and anyone who doesn't agree the agenda to the same extreme level is the enemy and an apologist. You end up being blamed for the crime itself.

This post is so telling. You accuse IC of 'supremacism', whatever that is, by intimidating people into silence and yet your posting history on all of these topics is one of insult and abuse of all Europeans and leftists and anyone who doesn't agree with your anti-Moslem rhetoric. Pot, meet Kettle.

You use hate sites such as that of the 'Law and Freedom Foundation, whose raison d'etre has nothing to do with, as they claim, protecting women, homosexuals and those who believe in free speech. All they seek to do is prevent the opening of mosques, all mosques, any mosque and any Moslem community centre. It's run by a former English Defence League activist and far-right lawyer, Gavin Boby. He also runs an organisation known as Mosquebusters, here's their logo...
View attachment 67172303
They make no distinction between liberal, orthodox, fundamentalist mosques. Like you, their attitude is "a mosque is a mosque is a mosque", that's blatantly clear from their website.

Boby is a regular contributor to many far-right publications and hate sites such as Jihadwatch and Gates of Vienna. Nice to see you allying yourself with your natural constituency. Are you still claiming to be a liberal?

Here are the most glaring errors in your arguments:

  1. You equate not being anti-Islamic with being pro-fundamentalism, pro-Salafist, pro-ISIS. You know that that is a fallacious position, but you don't want anything to muddy the simplicity of your anti-Islamism.
  2. You believe that for ideological reasons no one in Europe or on the left believes in taking a fundamental stance against creeping fundamentalism and the recruitment of European Moslems for extremist causes. Many of us do, and quite actively.
  3. The issue of paedophile activity in the UK has been a hot topic for several years now. Different sets of criminals employ different tactics. There's no doubt that there has been major failings in relation to predominantly Pakistani paedophile rings in Rotherham and elsewhere. I haven't heard of anyone who hasn't been horrified by reports of these activities, nor who denies that there's clearly an issue for society in general and Pakistani communities in particular to address - urgently and comprehensively. Excessive sensitivity to accusations of racism has clearly played a part, and not just among leftists, unless you believe that the Police are a leftist organisation.
  4. You assume that anyone who isn't wholly anti-Islamic is completely uncritical of attitudes and positions of Islam. I'm opposed to Islamic theology and many mainstream Islamic beliefs and attitudes. I just don't insist that everything I disagree with must be banned - not even anti-gay hate speech.
  5. You assume that not being totally anti-Islam means that you are either pro-Islamism or a useful idiot on behalf of all strands of Islamic extremism.
  6. You infer that any measure taken to combat Islamic extremism, no matter how repressive or authoritarian, protects liberalism.
Please feel free to explain how any of those points misrepresents your attitudes towards Islam.

Been a busy day at work so I'm late back - thanks for this Andy.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

To continually look for ways to make this systemic acts, less abhorrent, is disgusting to say the least.
I do hope you're not accusing anyone here of looking for ways to excuse this behaviour, Paul.

What we are seeing in the UK at the moment is an upsurge of reporting of abuse that has been going on in numerous different pockets of British society over several decades. All cases of abuse of minors and the vulnerable is as preoccupying as one another. Perpetrators appear to cross all social and racial barriers. In the past five years we've seen the uncovering of nests of abusers among:

  1. Roman Catholic priests, along with a concerted conspiracy by the church hierarchy to keep things covered up.
  2. A swathe of veteran entertainers who clearly abused their celebrity status to commit countless acts during an age where such things were routinely brushed under the carpet.
  3. A nest of child and minor abusers involved in some of the highest positions of state and parliament, and another conspiracy to keep details tightly under wraps.
  4. Groups of predominantly, although not exclusively, Pakistanis using the under-funded, horribly managed child protection services as breeding grounds for their abusive behaviour. They have been protected by some clearly over-sensitive authorities and, I would say abusive in themselves, attitudes towards young, vulnerable and poor kids.
It's right that all of this comes out, is addressed and the relevant punishments levied, lessons learned and changes made. Of course, those with their agenda, here on DP and elsewhere, have been pretty much silent on what categories 1,2, and 3 say about the sections of society from which those perpetrators hail. That's the hypocrisy we're reading here.

I'm delighted to see that there are plenty of posters not surrendering to the mad logic that suggests that if you don't condemn all Moslems for the criminal actions of a few dozen degenerates, you must therefore be tacit supporters of child rapists.

Compare the 'damn all Moslems' brigade reactions to this story with the kind of attitude taken to the (far more numerous) cases of abuse amongst Catholic clergy:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/religious-discussions/121474-problems-catholic-church-3.html#post1060303009
So, let's take each revealed case of abuse seriously, demand change, demand proper prosecution and punishment of all perps equally and deny the mosquebusters the opportunity to use the abuse of minors as a weapon in their religious wars.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I do hope you're not accusing anyone here of looking for ways to excuse this behaviour, Paul.

Why shouldn't he be able to tell the truth?
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Perhaps he was simply gearing his video towards those who are informed rather than those who are uninformed.

If you consider conservatives to be automatically more informed than liberal. I'd like to think you're smarter than that.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I do hope you're not accusing anyone here of looking for ways to excuse this behaviour, Paul.

What we are seeing in the UK at the moment is an upsurge of reporting of abuse that has been going on in numerous different pockets of British society over several decades. All cases of abuse of minors and the vulnerable is as preoccupying as one another. Perpetrators appear to cross all social and racial barriers. In the past five years we've seen the uncovering of nests of abusers among:

  1. Roman Catholic priests, along with a concerted conspiracy by the church hierarchy to keep things covered up.
  2. A swathe of veteran entertainers who clearly abused their celebrity status to commit countless acts during an age where such things were routinely brushed under the carpet.
  3. A nest of child and minor abusers involved in some of the highest positions of state and parliament, and another conspiracy to keep details tightly under wraps.
  4. Groups of predominantly, although not exclusively, Pakistanis using the under-funded, horribly managed child protection services as breeding grounds for their abusive behaviour. They have been protected by some clearly over-sensitive authorities and, I would say abusive in themselves, attitudes towards young, vulnerable and poor kids.
It's right that all of this comes out, is addressed and the relevant punishments levied, lessons learned and changes made. Of course, those with their agenda, here on DP and elsewhere, have been pretty much silent on what categories 1,2, and 3 say about the sections of society from which those perpetrators hail. That's the hypocrisy we're reading here.

I'm delighted to see that there are plenty of posters not surrendering to the mad logic that suggests that if you don't condemn all Moslems for the criminal actions of a few dozen degenerates, you must therefore be tacit supporters of child rapists.

Compare the 'damn all Moslems' brigade reactions to this story with the kind of attitude taken to the (far more numerous) cases of abuse amongst Catholic clergy:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/religious-discussions/121474-problems-catholic-church-3.html#post1060303009
So, let's take each revealed case of abuse seriously, demand change, demand proper prosecution and punishment of all perps equally and deny the mosquebusters the opportunity to use the abuse of minors as a weapon in their religious wars.

I'm not getting into some 'comparative' analysis, Andy. Whether the Catholic church has been correctly vilified, and to an appropriate extent, is not the concern of this thread. What my concern is, is that the perpetrators from mainly Pakistani communities are labelled, and seen, for what they actually are. Furthermore, how many Northern towns have been complicit in this systemic behaviour, for fear of accusations of 'racism'. I've lost count the times someone from the local community has said "we are not allowed to say anything against the Asian community" for fear of the above. These are the feelings of the non-Asian community. To paint this as anything other than what it is, is for the conscience of the individual. To continually deny is well, apologist at its worse.

Paul
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

By the very definition of racism.

[URL="https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+racism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb"
Google search[/URL]]rac·ism /rāˌsizəm/
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Something can be racially based without being racist. The key is the idea of a given race being either superior or inferior. Sadly, the word is so misused in today's world that the meaning is nearly lost and twisted beyond recognition.​
Acknowledging any Racial difference, and they do exist, will inevitably lead to some of those traits being called 'superior' or 'inferior'. Be they musical, athletic, intellectual, etc.
The proper way to avoid what ARE indeed the different abilities of the Races is to call them 'Relative Advantages' because every race has them. (as well as the less PC disadvantages.)
ie, Many want to be able to say/acknowledge the superior athletic ability of some black populations but realize this will 'open the door'.
So we have a new less demonizing word 'racialist'.

Of course, what's being talking about here is Not so much Race as Ideology; Islamic/Islamist hostility and supremacism.
Throughout Europe, Muslim immigrants are committing Inordinate amounts of crime.
Highly inordinate, like 10x the avg of the 'native' population.
If it were merely about 'Race', Indian/Hindu immigrants would have a similar crime rate as Pakistanis, but they do Not.​
 
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re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

--To paint this as anything other than what it is, is for the conscience of the individual.

That's very apt Paul - do you claim there is a "rape jihad?"


-- To continually deny is well, apologist at its worse.

I, not denying, neither is Andy, Arcana or anyone else I see or read. What there are, are different levels of extremes in reaction and response. Where do you put yourself on this scale? To be honest, it seems that anything less than full outright condemnation of all muslims is "apologia" from what I see in the demands of some posters.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]


I notice that you didn't answer my question, but I will answer yours.

I agree 90% with what Yasmin Alibhai Brown wrote. I've a lot of time for her, and no one could ever accuse her of pandering or apologism.

I take issue with 2 things she says:

  1. I don't think anyone could accuse authorities of turning a blind eye to serious offences committed by black people. I can't think of an example anywhere near as glaring as this. I certainly think they are turning a blind eye in Rotherham, and even more so in relation to the Westminster paedophile ring. Isn't it telling that no one's mentioned Leon Britten and his disappeared dossiers in such a long time?
  2. When she says: "The perpetrators are not paedophiles in the normal sense of the word." she is being slightly disingenuous. Taking the strict meaning of the word, I guess that few of the victims were pre-pubescent, but generally the word paedophile nowadays refers to people having sex with minors, usually minors several years under the age of consent. That being the case, this is a paedophile ring. The perpetrators may be all those other things she calls them too, but why shy away from the word that everyone understands?

Apart from those two caveats, she's bang on the money.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

If you consider conservatives to be automatically more informed than liberal. I'd like to think you're smarter than that.

Actually, I AM smarter than that, because unlike some people, I'm smart enough to realize there is precious little correlation between political affiliation and degree of knowledge.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I think he's perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

Of course he is. He might very well be the most intellectually honest British poster here among those who post regularly.

The question I asked to you, your subtle attempt at trying to get him to toe the party line aside, is this "Why shouldn't he be allowed to speak the truth?"
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Of course he is. He might very well be the most intellectually honest British poster here among those who post regularly.

The question I asked to you, your subtle attempt at trying to get him to toe the party line aside, is this "Why shouldn't he be allowed to speak the truth?"

Good God! Who the hell is trying to stop him? And how would they do that even if they were so inclined? Paul's a top bloke, perhaps one of my best mates on DP. I'm asking him to clarify to whom he was referring that comment. If he was attacking the likes of IC, Serenity, Arcana or me with that comment, then I'd address him differently than if he was referring to the people being taken to task in the article he posted.
 
re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I, not denying, neither is Andy, Arcana or anyone else I see or read. What there are, are different levels of extremes in reaction and response. Where do you put yourself on this scale? To be honest, it seems that anything less than full outright condemnation of all muslims is "apologia" from what I see in the demands of some posters.
I've only seen that there is a problem within both the Islamic immigrants and their host countries, with many downplaying or denying a problem exists. I have never seen anything mentioned about "ALL" Muslims but if you have seen anything of the sort you should remind the poster that not all Muslims are terrorists (or rapists, murderers, etc.).
 
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