Racist, or not racist... You be the judge[W:79]

[apdst]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Context is everything.

Why does that make you sad?

It's the Liberal double standard. But hey! If Liberals didn't a double standard, they wouldn't any standards at all.

 

[jpn]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Apparently there are sure a lot of Republicans who "need to go back to school to understand what racism is and isn't."

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan:

House Speaker Paul Ryan ripped Donald Trump's recent remarks saying a judge presiding over a lawsuit involving his business was biased because of his Mexican heritage as "the textbook definition of a racist comment."

Or Rep. Bill Flores (R-TX), a chair of the conservative Republican Study Committee,

"Mr. Trump needs to show how he will address the critical issues on the minds of Americans: national security and economic opportunity for hardworking American families," Flores said, as quoted by Politico. "Americans need to see more vision and less trash talk. I was incredibly angry to see Mr. Trump question a judge's motives because of his ethnicity." Flores told CNN this week that while he still planned to vote for Trump, he wouldn’t get a full endorsement.

Wow. What a profile in courage.
So, if you recognize someone as a racist, but you support him anyway, like Paul Ryan and Bill Flores do, does that make you a racist? Or does it just make you a spineless, unprincipled ass? (I vote the latter).

I love watching all these Republicans, like John McCain, like Marco Rubio, like Paul Ryan, who recognize and publicly admit to the racism of Donald Trump, but choose to support him anyway. What principles. What courage. What wonderful examples to us all.

Far-rightwing Erick Erickson: "The Republican Party is on the verge of being set back a generation because of its Presidential nominee. If Republican Party officials do not man up and publicly repudiate their nominee, the voters will repudiate the GOP as the voters did in 2006. This time, however, it will be far more costly with far more long term damage."

Few Republicans have summed it up better than Joe Scarborough: https://youtu.be/IZ0PvFwcv_E

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

This is not an easy question. We need to know the race of Mr. Smith to be able to answer. If Mr. Smith is white, then of course he and what he said is racist. If Mr. Smith is any other race but white and Mr. Johnson is white then Mr. smith is not a racist.

It is so much easier if we know the race of every player.

What hogwash. The race of the person doesn't matter in the least as to whether they're being racist or not. ANYONE can be racist no matter their race and to think like you just did here IS racist fitting definition #2 that was shown in post #34.

2)the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

You're stating that only whites can be racist based on the characteristic of their racial color.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Moderator's Warning:

This thread is about racism, not any particular politician. Keep Trump, Hillary or any other politician out of the discussion or it will be deemed as a derail attempt and you will be thread banned at the least.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Fact still remains that there is not enough info in the op to have a FACTUAL answer. Facts, english, definitions and the dictionary all prove that and that fact wont change.

Any statement that doesn't itself contain needed content or the needed content isnt provided 3rd party cannot be determined if said statement is FACTUALLY racist or not.
Why? because the definition of racism NEEDS the context to define if it is or not.

And determination that is made is at best a guess, assumption or subjective opinion. No answer without said context will be factual.

This is why the op has failed and only a vast minority voted. The majority realize the fact theres no way to answer correctly.

ANybody who disagrees I challenge to prove otherwise using facts. It cant be done.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Let me ask you a question. I'll be entirely vague too. What if somebody of race x accuses somebody of race z of racism when there is no evidence of Z actually being racist?

That is very similar to my question, except the accusation wasn't of racism. The accusation was of allowing racial bias to influence action. That could be either action taken to benefit, or to protect those of his race (which is not racist)... or it could be action taken to harm or spite a person or persons based on their race. (which is racist).

Would you say:

A. X is a race baiter

Quite possibly. If creating racial division within our society was the persons desired outcome in making such an accusation, than the answer is yes.

B. X is slandering Z for no good reason

There is always a reason for one to slander another.

C. X is always a victim of his/her race

I couldn't say, but it's not relevant because it wouldn't serve as an excuse for making such an accusation.

D. All members of race Z are racist towards all Xs

Absolutely not. There is no such thing as a race people who all embrace racist beliefs.

.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Grim17, In this particular forum, each reader will likely tie your "poll" to Trump's recent trash talk.
But as it is stated I agree with haymarket --- "not enough information".

As I stated, it is a generic question.

by lumping together all Mexicans and other Latin Americans with rapists, drug dealers and criminals.

That isn't what he did at all. He was illuding to the people from Latin American countries who illegally sneak into the US. I agree he should have specified that not all illegals who sneak into the country are rapists, drug dealers, etc... but he was never referring to Latin American people in general.

Trump has also lumped together all Muslims as potential terrorists.

Saying all Muslims who are attempting to migrate to America (which is who he was referring to) are potential terrorists, is unfortunately the way the INS needs to address each of them, in order to protect the country from allowing those who would do us harm from taking up residence here. Any honest Muslim who does not agree with, support, or engage in terrorist activity, should take no offense to America, or any other country, engaging in vigorous background checks in order to protect themselves from attack. Foreigners being allowed to migrate to the US is a privilege, not every person's right.

I don't want such a "straight talker" to represent my nation as Commander in Chief.

Neither do I. Taking action to protect the country is one thing, but shooting your mouth off and being a complete jackass is quite another. That's one of the many reasons I am not a Trump supporter.

Now can we get back on topic?


.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

This is not an easy question. We need to know the race of Mr. Smith to be able to answer. If Mr. Smith is white, then of course he and what he said is racist. If Mr. Smith is any other race but white and Mr. Johnson is white then Mr. smith is not a racist.

It is so much easier if we know the race of every player.

Say what?

I hope that you post was sarcasm.

.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Trump's as ****ing racist as my great-grandparents.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

As I stated, it is a generic question.




That isn't what he did at all. He was illuding to the people from Latin American countries who illegally sneak into the US. I agree he should have specified that not all illegals who sneak into the country are rapists, drug dealers, etc... but he was never referring to Latin American people in general.



Saying all Muslims who are attempting to migrate to America (which is who he was referring to) are potential terrorists, is unfortunately the way the INS needs to address each of them, in order to protect the country from allowing those who would do us harm from taking up residence here. Any honest Muslim who does not agree with, support, or engage in terrorist activity, should take no offense to America, or any other country, engaging in vigorous background checks in order to protect themselves from attack. Foreigners being allowed to migrate to the US is a privilege, not every person's right.





Neither do I. Taking action to protect the country is one thing, but shooting your mouth off and being a complete jackass is quite another. That's one of the many reasons I am not a Trump supporter.

Now can we get back on topic?


.

Good example.

1. Fact: most Muslims are not extremists or terrorists.
2. Fact: most--not all--but most terrorism in the world in modern times is a result of acts of Islamic extremists.
3. Fact: most people fleeing Syria are Muslim and are not extremists or terrorists.
4. Fact: some people leaving Syria are in fact extremist terrorists.
5. Fact: currently there is no way to determine who is and is not an Islamic terrorist.
6. Fact: some of the Syrian refugees are coming to the USA.
7. Fact: some of the Syrian refugees are coming directly from Syria and some from other countries where they are temporarily staying.

Question: Given the stated facts, if X says we should not admit Muslims until we have some means to vet them and know who is and is not a terrorist, is X making a racist statement?

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Good example.

1. Fact: most Muslims are not extremists or terrorists.
2. Fact: most--not all--but most terrorism in the world in modern times is a result of acts of Islamic extremists.
3. Fact: most people fleeing Syria are Muslim and are not extremists or terrorists.
4. Fact: some people leaving Syria are in fact extremist terrorists.
5. Fact: currently there is no way to determine who is and is not an Islamic terrorist.
6. Fact: some of the Syrian refugees are coming to the USA.
7. Fact: some of the Syrian refugees are coming directly from Syria and some from other countries where they are temporarily staying.

Question: Given the stated facts, if X says we should not admit Muslims until we have some means to vet them and know who is and is not a terrorist, is X making a racist statement?

The answer is a resounding "NO".

That statement is not in any way anti-Islamic, because nearly all the terrorist attacks that have taken place in the world over the last 20 years, have been committed by Muslims, and America is the sworn enemy of Islamic terrorists.

.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

The answer is a resounding "NO".

That statement is not in any way anti-Islamic, because nearly all the terrorist attacks that have taken place in the world over the last 20 years, have been committed by Muslims, and America is the sworn enemy of Islamic terrorists.

.

We agree.

Now realistically, there is no way to determine that a person is or is not a Muslim if he/she does not reveal that information himself or herself. So the more realistic statement--the politically correct statement--is that we should not admit people to the USA who do not have cleared VISAs from non terrorist countries until we have some means to vet those coming in and know that they are of good repute and post no likely danger to Americans.

But its so much simpler to just say don't bring in Muslims if we don't know who they are until we have some way to check them out. Instead let's make a place for the refugees where they are and protect them there. Humane, common sense, and there is nothing racist about it.

 

[mmi]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

race baiter

I think it's really sad the way this is going, but I suppose it's predictable and maybe even inevitable. Racism is a disease, a highly virulent pathogen that infects, weakens, and can destroy minds, communities, and entire societies.

It's a lot less acceptable than it was when I was growing up in the 1960s. People don't want to be accused of it or even associated with it. And it's often used as a weapon in politics. That's very unfortunate.

What's needed, imo, is a recognition of the terrible history of events, large, small, and in-between, that were the product of such bigotry. The consequences of racism in America are all around us. It's there in all the social and economic data. We need a healing spirit, not one characterized by recrimination.

Blacks in America who feel that their parents and grandparents grew up in a country that denied them human rights may be, imo, understandably outraged by that legacy. Whites who don't discriminate against blacks may understandably feel insulted, falsely accused, even defiant when confronted with efforts to address the inequities engendered by that history that are still very much present in our society.

I'd say if you love America and what this country stands for, you should reach out as much as you can to show compassion for and offer support to the victims of racism. Don't be defensive and don't be callous. If we're ever going to put all this pain and injury behind us, we'll need all hands on deck. You can best love America by loving Americans.

"No Such Place as 'Post-Racial' America," NYT. Nov 8, 2011.

 

[Cyrylek]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

OK. I am as #NeverTrump as it gets. And I rather like Paul Ryan. But suggesting that someone of Mexican decent may be biased against a vulgar populist jerk perpetually bashing Mexicans is hardly another racist (let's go easy on semantics here, even though Mexicans are not a "race") statement. Not a "textbook racist", not racist at all.

Let's get real: If it would be about jury selection, how vetting would go? Say, you have an Italian or Irish gangster on trial - for extortion, or for "whacking" someone, whatever - who is also known in the local community for his obsessive anti-Russian-immigrant rantings ("They took our jobs!"). Ethnic Russians (even the 99% of them who are not after his kind of "jobs") would be filtered out, right?

But there's another but. When Trump talks to his army (it is an army by now, and it is growing), and throws out the key words - "Mexican!!!" - like raw meat to already hysterical dogs - he knows what he is doing. Technically and logically, it was not a racist statement. But there's nothing technical or logical about a mob being infused with a steady flow of hatred.

Trump is not a racist (like he cares about anyone but himself enough to notice their skin pigmentation, or any such irrelevancies). But if "winning" requires stoking pogrom instincts in a crowd of the easily manipulated - hey, why not?

The man should never, ever become President. Even if it means 4 years of Hillary Clinton (as P.J.O'Rourke said, "only the second worst thing that can happen to America")

 

[HK.227]

Here's the scenario:
With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".
Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?

Racism is the belief that some races are inherently superior to others.
The scenario presented doesn't provide evidence either for or against Mr. Smith believing such is the case.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Grim17, In this particular forum, each reader will likely tie your "poll" to Trump's recent trash talk.
But as it is stated I agree with haymarket --- "not enough information".

However, your poll aside, in the case of Mr. Trump, there is further information. And that information paints an ugly picture of Trump.
The man who would be King has slandered everyone entering the US from our Southern border by lumping together all Mexicans and other Latin Americans with rapists, drug dealers and criminals.

Trump has also lumped together all Muslims as potential terrorists. I don't want such a "straight talker" to represent my nation as Commander in Chief.

I guess if someone repeats the lie enough times it becomes truth?

Better yet, why don't you provide a link showing Trump said those things.

I suggest you obfuscate to make Trump look as bad a possible for whatever reason you may have. The truth be damned.

Sidenote: Isn't that the same MO some are using to declare Trump a racist in the Trump University prosecution? By latching on to only a portion of what Trump says, not including everything Trump says EVEN IN THE SAME SENTENCE and ignoring his simple to comprehend explanations, you have denied Trump his freedom of speech.
Speech that is incendiary to some ideologues does not justify a free speech ban.

Sidenote2: Consequently yous #neverTrumpers, being afraid that some speech may be incendiary to certain ideologues and avoiding that speech at all costs is one reason why the leadership of the GOP has been so timid and so ineffective.

 

[Howler63]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Not racist on both counts.

If I speculate that I might not be welcome in a black neighborhood being white as I am, that doesn't make me racist, just prudent.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Trump is a kook in my book, and I do not support or endorse him.

It's a generic question that thus far, nobody who has replied has bothered to answer.

Yawn, maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe people don't like bland questions without any real substance behind them? Lol, I forget - you're the sort that answers questions right off the bat and doesn't spend 10+ pages avoiding having to answer. :lol:

 

[Redress]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Yawn, maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe people don't like bland questions without any real substance behind them? Lol, I forget - you're the sort that answers questions right off the bat and doesn't spend 10+ pages avoiding having to answer. :lol:

What makes it worse is his rejection and anger over the answers he does not like.

 

[joG]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

What more information would you need?

Whether it was racist or not.

 

[11Bravo]

Here's the scenario:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".


Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?


a) Yes, that makes what Mr. Smith said racist.
b) Yes, that makes Mr. Smith racist.
c) Yes, that makes both Mr. Smith and what he said Racist.
d) No, that does not make Mr. Smith or what he said racist.

Personally I don't care if it is or isn't racist. It's true and I know it severely offends the wussy left wing, but nowadays, what doesn't offend them? Heck, women can't even use their own bathrooms anymore without them demanding men be able to share them. Bunch of weirdos.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

You don't have to care if it's racism, to voice your opinion.

Not racist in the slightest...

 

[Bodi]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Phew, I thought I was the only one who saw this as Grim17's effort to defend Trump's latest racist comment.

Yeah, but the last few "racist comments" that Trump supposedly made were flat out lies by the media (CNN in one case)...

 

[MorrisDay]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Why is Hillary a fake? She is an ex first lady, senator and secretary of state. She is a career politician who wants to be president. She certainly has the experience and the temperament. The performance in front of the committee to undermine Hillary was magnificent. Any thing she has done to achieve her goals the Don has done in the business world. I don't mean having people killed. One can only imagine what right wingers would say if Hillary had ties to the mob and committed a few bankruptcies. I was just reading how Craig Snyder (lifelong Republican who has worked with Trump aid Roger Stone) set up a PAC to support Clinton. Because "the prospect of a Trump presidency could be an epic disaster". He is worried about WW3.

Actually, I don't think very highly at all of Hillary. She is worse than fake - she is a complete fraud. I don't believe she would think twice about ruining a Generals career if he had committed the same offense she did with U.S. Top Secret information. Trump is a business man and regardless of his Queens, NY upbringing and manner of speaking, he is much less emotional than "Queen" Hillary.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Actually, I don't think very highly at all of Hillary. She is worse than fake - she is a complete fraud. I don't believe she would think twice about ruining a Generals career if he had committed the same offense she did with U.S. Top Secret information. Trump is a business man and regardless of his Queens, NY upbringing and manner of speaking, he is much less emotional than "Queen" Hillary.

Emotional? That is usually the opposite of what people say about her. If Trump was in the same situation as Hillary, in front of a committee whose sole purpose was to "get her", he wouldn't have shown 1/100th of the composure she displayed. She made Gowdy look like an imbecile. A very Presidential performance. I feel much more comfortable with her in office as opposed to the Don. What's wrong with Queens? I was raised on 59th avenue right across from Flushing Meadow until I was 8.