Racist, or not racist... You be the judge[W:79]

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.)But I do think it happens every day in ordinary society.

2.)I am not careful what word I use around people who know me and know who and what I am. I can call my relatives of Italian descent dago or wop and it's fine. They love it. And they can call me a redneck cracker and I love it. Of course none of us would do that around people who didn't know us and know the context we were using. I don't always finish a sentence or even a word around those who know me well because I know they got it without me saying it. Somebody listening in who didn't know me could get the wrong impression, however.

3.) And it is just natural to refer to our friends and relatives of "Irish" descent as Irish, or of German descent "German" or Italian descent "Italian". So if it isn't racist to do that, why is it racist to call somebody of Mexican descent "Mexican"? Well, that's different some will say. Why? Why is it different? My "Mexican" relatives, all American born except for one who is a naturalized citizen all call themselves "Mexican". It seems to be different only to those who might be latent racists themselves. Who knows?

4.) One of Donald Trump's personal selling points is that he talks like we all talk and not as the coached, careful scripted and memorized, politically correct politicians talk. And I honestly do think he has been unfairly slammed by the media including some of the more conservative Fox News people as well as the Trump haters on this and other message boards, Facebook, Twitter or whatever.

5.)But. . . having said that. . . sometimes I think there is a deliberate intent to it too. Not an intent to be racist. Only an intent to stir up the media storms that have kept him leading every newscast and on all the front pages. The reason I think that is every time media interest begins to wane, he seems to come up with one of these more provocative statements. And we the gullible do seem to fall for it every single time. The man may indeed be brilliant. .

1.) happens? yes is the norm or rampant. I never see that in my area, doesn't mean it not happening in your area though.
Ohio, PA and Virginia where I spend lots of time I dont encounter it.

2.) i think you just described the majority of people, I know thats just about everybody I know lol its awesome

3.) agreed

4.) I cant agree here at all, He doesnt talk like "we" talk but I do agree that media has slammed him and all politicians unfairly at times.

5.) I agree with the deliberate intent statements, dont agree about Trump but then again I dont judge trump for any of that stuff really. I know when it comes to that stuff he is a moron, uncoached as you say. I judge him for other important stuff, not his rough around the edges, lack of foresight stuff.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

How many here have seen blatant racism in real life? I have not. Nobody says boo anymore. Racism is now a weapon, a tactic. :2wave:

I have, and an abundance of it.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.)That is incorrect. You are using a word that could be defined as a color, or an emotional state. My question has no words that could be interpreted multiple ways.

2.)My question is asking something different. Your scenario is asking me to determine if racism was the motive for a crime. If I said that I believed that race was a motivating factor in this crime, would that make my statement racist?

If so, then check either answer #1, #2 or #3. If not, then check answer #4

1.) 100% false. facts and definitions already proved you wrong, without content nothing other than a guess can be made just like in your failed op. Any answer is a guess. It can be interpreted 1000 ways per the rules of English and by definitions.

disagree? then factually prove theres a right answer, it cant be done lol

2.) wrong again, you can try to twist it but every attempt will fail. Fact remains your question cant FACTUALLY be answered, any answer will be 100% a guess.

Again, if you disagree prove us all wrong, use FACTS and tell us what answer is the only right answer and prove it. opcorn2:

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

OK, taking those definitions, does the question imply any of those things?

Do you view such a question as an accusation made against the individual, or a broad brush accusation that would apply to all individuals of that particular race? That is the difference between "racist" and "non-racist" in my view.

As I said in my post, if we go by the definition I posted, there is nothing in the statement to indicate the presence of either #1 or #2 on the part of Smith or Johnson.

If we go by your definition that racism is a broad brush characterization that applies to all individual of a particular race--I would agree with that too. Which is why I say that programs that assume black people (or any other) are incapable of helping themselves unless the government intervenes are racist programs. And using that definition, Smith was not racist in the statement in the OP.

But the bottom line, Smith may be a pure racist and he may not have a racist bone in his body. But there is insufficient information in the OP statement to determine that either way.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

As far as the question goes, no context is needed.

Is baselessly accusing someone of allowing their racial bias to dictate their actions, a racist accusation or not?

if so, check #1
If not, check #4

Unless you are someone that is so paranoid they see racism and bias everywhere, then context always matters. For example, when one judges whether something Trump says was racist, they look at the entire context of his words.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.) 100% false. facts and definitions already proved you wrong, without content nothing other than a guess can be made just like in your failed op. Any answer is a guess. It can be interpreted 1000 ways per the rules of English and by definitions.

You used the example of calling someone "Blue", which as you yourself admitted, means 2 completely different things.

2.) wrong again, you can try to twist it but every attempt will fail. Fact remains your question cant FACTUALLY be answered, any answer will be 100% a guess.

It would be a guess as to whether the person was racist, but the question itself can be determined. Simply consult the dictionary and see if accusing someone of allowing their racial bias to influence their actions, constitutes a racist statement. This isn't rocket science here.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.) happens? yes is the norm or rampant. I never see that in my area, doesn't mean it not happening in your area though.
Ohio, PA and Virginia where I spend lots of time I dont encounter it.

2.) i think you just described the majority of people, I know thats just about everybody I know lol its awesome

3.) agreed

4.) I cant agree here at all, He doesnt talk like "we" talk but I do agree that media has slammed him and all politicians unfairly at times.

5.) I agree with the deliberate intent statements, dont agree about Trump but then again I dont judge trump for any of that stuff really. I know when it comes to that stuff he is a moron, uncoached as you say. I judge him for other important stuff, not his rough around the edges, lack of foresight stuff.

We don't have to agree. Considering how multi-faceted and complex Donald Trump is, I am surprised any two of us see him exactly in the same way. And that's okay. This will be the most vetted President in history if he is elected.

I am not convinced he is any kind of moron for instance. He may misjudge or overshoot his mark with some of his more deliberate 'pot stirrer' lines, but when you consider the hundreds of hours of extemporaneous face time this man gets with the media, he is bound to stumble now and then. I just wish the media would cut him as much slack as they give Obama and Hillary.

 

[Redress]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Again, you didn't answer the question, but chose to deem it irrelevant to justify your not answering it.

Again, no. I answered the question, specifically, logically, and in detail. You just did not like the answer, and so you get cranky.

 

[coldjoint]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I have, and an abundance of it.

So you have seen people yelling nigger, or spic, or other assorted derogatory terms?

What have you seen?

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I have, and an abundance of it.

Me too. Which is why I know what it is. And what it isn't.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

And using that definition, Smith was not racist in the statement in the OP.

But the bottom line, Smith may be a pure racist and he may not have a racist bone in his body. But there is insufficient information in the OP statement to determine that either way.

You are correct... My scenario was assuming that neither person has ever come out as being a racist, or has associated themselves with overtly racist organisations. In other words, my question was based on taking the question at face value.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Don't care if it is racism, it is stupid. I try to avoid calling people racist though.

Why is it stupid?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.)You used the example of calling someone "Blue", which as you yourself admitted, means 2 completely different things.
2.)It would be a guess as to whether the person was racist, but the question itself can be determined. Simply consult the dictionary and see if accusing someone of allowing their racial bias to influence their actions, constitutes a racist statement. This isn't rocket science here.

1.) Which has no impact on the fact the OP question failed cause it does not have a factual answer, hence the reason why you cant give one and prove it
2.) You keep saying that but yet cant prove it, facts, definitions and english rules all disagree. The dictionary is what proves you wrong and proves more info is need LMAO

I will ask you again, if you disagree with us then simple prove it, post the FACTS that make one answer right and prove it. . . seems very weird that you cant do this

we'll be waiting opcorn2:

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Again, no. I answered the question, specifically, logically, and in detail. You just did not like the answer, and so you get cranky.

If you did answer it, then why have you not participated in the poll?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Here's the scenario:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".


Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?


a) Yes, that makes what Mr. Smith said racist.
b) Yes, that makes Mr. Smith racist.
c) Yes, that makes both Mr. Smith and what he said Racist.
d) No, that does not make Mr. Smith or what he said racist.

It's just an accusation of racism. Was any harm actually done? Just because two people are two different races, the occurrence of racism is not inevitable...

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.)We don't have to agree. Considering how multi-faceted and complex Donald Trump is, I am surprised any two of us see him exactly in the same way. And that's okay. This will be the most vetted President in history if he is elected.

2.) I am not convinced he is any kind of moron for instance. He may misjudge or overshoot his mark with some of his more deliberate 'pot stirrer' lines, but when you consider the hundreds of hours of extemporaneous face time this man gets with the media, he is bound to stumble now and then. I just wish the media would cut him as much slack as they give Obama and Hillary.

1.) of course we dont have to agree on this because its opinion
I also dont think he will be the most vetted president either...
but this thread isnt about him, but id gladly tell you my personal feelings on him else where, its actually VERY simple and based on facts.

2.) again you are free to have that opinion, i totally disagree in the specifc subject we were discussing. The "coached/uncoached" area

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

It's just an accusation of racism. Was any harm actually done? Just because two people are two different races, the occurrence of racism is not inevitable...

Very good... that is precisely what it was.

 

[Redress]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

If you did answer it, then why have you not participated in the poll?

Because my answer is not among your poll options. That should be pretty self evident from my comments, and that is why you can comment in a poll thread. Pretty elementary stuff there...

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Very good... that is precisely what it was.

Let me ask you a question. I'll be entirely vague too. What if somebody of race x accuses somebody of race z of racism when there is no evidence of Z actually being racist?

Would you say:

A. X is a race baiter
B. X is slandering Z for no good reason
C. X is always a victim of his/her race
D. All members of race Z are racist towards all Xs

 

[dcaraz]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Grim17, In this particular forum, each reader will likely tie your "poll" to Trump's recent trash talk.
But as it is stated I agree with haymarket --- "not enough information".

However, your poll aside, in the case of Mr. Trump, there is further information. And that information paints an ugly picture of Trump.
The man who would be King has slandered everyone entering the US from our Southern border by lumping together all Mexicans and other Latin Americans with rapists, drug dealers and criminals.

Trump has also lumped together all Muslims as potential terrorists. I don't want such a "straight talker" to represent my nation as Commander in Chief.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Here's the scenario:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".


Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?


a) Yes, that makes what Mr. Smith said racist.
b) Yes, that makes Mr. Smith racist.
c) Yes, that makes both Mr. Smith and what he said Racist.
d) No, that does not make Mr. Smith or what he said racist.

I voted no.

I think a whole passel of people need to go back to school to understand what racism is and isn't.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Here's the scenario:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".


Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?


a) Yes, that makes what Mr. Smith said racist.
b) Yes, that makes Mr. Smith racist.
c) Yes, that makes both Mr. Smith and what he said Racist.
d) No, that does not make Mr. Smith or what he said racist.

Depends entirely on what Mr. Johnson did and his past history.

If Mr. Johnson has a history of racial bias then it is possible. If he doesn't then answer is more than likely no. It could be that Mr. Smith is the one with the racial bias if Mr. Johnson is of a different race than Mr. Smith. Or Mr. Smith get just be over sensitive about racial issues and there was no racial bias on either side.

Essentially, not enough info to go by.

 

[a777pilot]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Here's the scenario:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".


Question: Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he said, racist?


a) Yes, that makes what Mr. Smith said racist.
b) Yes, that makes Mr. Smith racist.
c) Yes, that makes both Mr. Smith and what he said Racist.
d) No, that does not make Mr. Smith or what he said racist.

This is not an easy question. We need to know the race of Mr. Smith to be able to answer. If Mr. Smith is white, then of course he and what he said is racist. If Mr. Smith is any other race but white and Mr. Johnson is white then Mr. smith is not a racist.

It is so much easier if we know the race of every player.

 

[apdst]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I voted no.

I think a whole passel of people need to go back to school to understand what racism is and isn't.

They know the difference. Its just that their definition changes according to their needs.

Trump says something about a Mexican judge. That's racist.

Someone calls Herman Cain an uncle tom. That isn't.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

They know the difference. Its just that their definition changes according to their needs.

Trump says something about a Mexican judge. That's racist.

Someone calls Herman Cain an uncle tom. That isn't.

Context is everything.

Why does that make you sad?