Racist, or not racist... You be the judge[W:79]

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Of course not.
Racism means you believe one race is superior (or inferior) to another or to all others.
Why is this even a problem? Merriam-Webster is online and everyone knows how to spell Google.

Then checking answer #4 would be appropriate.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

no way to factually answer without more info...
any answer given on current info could easily be wrong . . .
by defintinon theres currently no way to determine if it is or not

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Actually, no you wouldn't.

The dictionary is very clear on what constitutes racism. All you need to do is determine if any of those definitions fit.

In the scenario I created, neither person has proclaimed to be a racist, they are just 2 random people. I agree that determining if MR. Smith is a racist would be quite impossible in my view, but the same isn't true of his statement.

Okay, here is your statement:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".

1. Mr. Smith may not intend to cast disparity on Johnson's race, but rather to discredit Johnson personally. In that case it would not be a racist remark, but rather an ad hominem one. We don't have enough information from the statement to know.

2. Mr. Smith may be prejudiced against members of Johnson's race and accused him because of his race. That would make Smith what Smith said racist, but we have no information on whether Smith is prejudiced. So again not enough information.

3. Mr. Smith may know of Johnson's track record for discriminating against members of a certain race and draws an inference accordingly. This would be an informed, but insupportable opinion, but not a racist one. Again not enough information to know for sure.

4. Whoever wrote the statement in the first place, and commenting on Smith's race that would be irrelevant to the truth of the statement, may be accurately reporting what Smith said, but could be at least one of the racists in the group. But without knowing the context in which the statement was made, or the motivation for it, we don't have enough information to know that.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Context for one.

As far as the question goes, no context is needed.

Is baselessly accusing someone of allowing their racial bias to dictate their actions, a racist accusation or not?

if so, check #1
If not, check #4

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

And my answer is that it does not matter in any way.

If you want your opinion to be private, then just say so... otherwise, choose an answer.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Okay, here is your statement:

With no substantiation, Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says that racial bias motivated/influenced the actions of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".

1. Mr. Smith may not intend to cast disparity on Johnson's race, but rather to discredit Johnson personally. In that case it would not be a racist remark, but rather an ad hominem one. We don't have enough information from the statement to know.

2. Mr. Smith may be prejudiced against members of Johnson's race and accused him because of his race. That would make Smith what Smith said racist, but we have no information on whether Smith is prejudiced. So again not enough information.

3. Mr. Smith may know of Johnson's track record for discriminating against members of a certain race and draws an inference accordingly. This would be an informed, but insupportable opinion, but not a racist one. Again not enough information to know for sure.

4. Whoever wrote the statement in the first place, and commenting on Smith's race that would be irrelevant to the truth of the statement, may be accurately reporting what Smith said, but could be at least one of the racists in the group. But without knowing the context in which the statement was made, or the motivation for it, we don't have enough information to know that.

The dictionary establishes what constitutes racism. Does that question qualify as "racist" or not?

Is the statement racially derogatory or not?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I don't think he is a racist either, so thanks for at least being honest about it. He does say things that a typical politician wouldn't. An opportunist, yes but so is his rival - HROD who is about as fake as they come.

Why is Hillary a fake? She is an ex first lady, senator and secretary of state. She is a career politician who wants to be president. She certainly has the experience and the temperament. The performance in front of the committee to undermine Hillary was magnificent. Any thing she has done to achieve her goals the Don has done in the business world. I don't mean having people killed. One can only imagine what right wingers would say if Hillary had ties to the mob and committed a few bankruptcies. I was just reading how Craig Snyder (lifelong Republican who has worked with Trump aid Roger Stone) set up a PAC to support Clinton. Because "the prospect of a Trump presidency could be an epic disaster". He is worried about WW3.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

As far as the question goes, no context is needed.

Is baselessly accusing someone of allowing their racial bias to dictate their actions, a racist accusation or not?

if so, check #1
If not, check #4

100% false by definition, it could in fact be, it also could not be. Fact remains there's not enough info to factually answer correctly.
Any and all answers are no more than guesses by definition and could be right or wrong.

Its like asking "person X calls person Y blue" and then asking did person X mean color or mood...there's no factual answer and any answer will be a guess.

The OP question is retarded and needs more info

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

The dictionary establishes what constitutes racism. Does that question qualify as "racist" or not?

Is the statement racially derogatory or not?

No way to tell from the available information as I took some trouble to explain in detail.

From Dictionary.com

Racist:
1)prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:

2)the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

If we go purely by that definition, there is nothing in the statement to indicate either #1 or #2 is an issue. I personally believe racism is much more than that simple definition, however.

 

[Redress]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

If you want your opinion to be private, then just say so... otherwise, choose an answer.

I gave you an answer. That you do not like it is your problem, not mine.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

100% false by definition, it could in fact be, it also could not be. Fact remains there's not enough info to factually answer correctly.
Any and all answers are no more than guesses by definition and could be right or wrong.

Its like asking "person X calls person Y blue" and then asking did person X mean color or mood...there's no factual answer and any answer will be a guess.

You have a point in that scenario, but that scenario doesn't apply here.

The question I posted doesn't have multiple meanings.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I gave you an answer. That you do not like it is your problem, not mine.

Actually, you didn't. You have not answered the question, only avoided doing so.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

No way to tell from the available information as I took some trouble to explain in detail.

From Dictionary.com

Racist:
1)prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:

2)the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

If we go purely by that definition, there is nothing in the statement to indicate either #1 or #2 is an issue. I personally believe racism is much more than that simple definition, however.

100% correct, more info is needed to factually answer . . going by definition there is ZERO way to determine the answer, any answer would be a guess.

 

[Redress]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Actually, you didn't. You have not answered the question, only avoided doing so.

No, I have explicitly and completely answered your question. Whether it is or is not racist is irrelevant to anything and everything. That is an answer. It is a complete and honest answer. That you cannot figure out how to manipulate it for your agenda is not my problem.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

No way to tell from the available information as I took some trouble to explain in detail.

From Dictionary.com

Racist:
1)prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:

2)the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.​

If we go purely by that definition, there is nothing in the statement to indicate either #1 or #2 is an issue. I personally believe racism is much more than that simple definition, however.

OK, taking those definitions, does the question imply any of those things?

Do you view such a question as an accusation made against the individual, or a broad brush accusation that would apply to all individuals of that particular race? That is the difference between "racist" and "non-racist" in my view.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

100% correct, more info is needed to factually answer . . going by definition there is ZERO way to determine the answer, any answer would be a guess.

Yep. That's why I keep beating the drum for putting ALL statements that don't provide specifics into their full context so that we KNOW what the person means. At least give the person a chance to explain what he/she means.

In our thuggish politically correct society, all it takes is for one of the 'thugs' to THINK somebody means something in a racist or other politically incorrect way whether or not that is actually the case. And if he or she is of the wrong group, woe to the politically incorrect no matter how his/her remark or action was intended. S/he will be punished or if possible destroyed. What s/he actually meant or intended is not a consideration. If it was politically incorrect, he/she must be dealt with without trial, mercy, or compassion.

I get so sick of it I could scream.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

No, I have explicitly and completely answered your question. Whether it is or is not racist is irrelevant to anything and everything. That is an answer. It is a complete and honest answer. That you cannot figure out how to manipulate it for your agenda is not my problem.

Again, you didn't answer the question, but chose to deem it irrelevant to justify your not answering it.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

In our thuggish politically correct society, all it takes is for one of the 'thugs' to THINK somebody means something in a racist or other politically incorrect way whether or not that is actually the case. And if he or she is of the wrong group, woe to the politically incorrect no matter how his/her remark or action was intended. S/he will be punished or if possible destroyed. What s/he actually meant or intended is not a consideration. If it was politically incorrect, he/she must be dealt with without trial, mercy, or compassion.

I get so sick of it I could scream.

I agree completely. It's what motivated this thread in the first place.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.)You have a point in that scenario, but that scenario doesn't apply here.
2.)The question I posted doesn't have multiple meanings.

1.) Actually per the rules of English and going by definition which you want us to do it applies 100%
2.) Per the info you posted theres zero FACTUAL way to determine that.

Witht the info you provided any answer is a GUESS and that fact wont change LMAO

how about this
Here's the scenario:

Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says stabs and beats of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".
Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he did racist?

theres no factual right answer here, it would be a guess.

If smith stabbed him because he was Mr Johnson was rapping his daughter then know, if he stabbed him cause he is raze Z then yes. Without knowing its a guess.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

Yep. That's why I keep beating the drum for putting ALL statements that don't provide specifics into their full context so that we KNOW what the person means. At least give the person a chance to explain what he/she means.

In our thuggish politically correct society, all it takes is for one of the 'thugs' to THINK somebody means something in a racist or other politically incorrect way whether or not that is actually the case. And if he or she is of the wrong group, woe to the politically incorrect no matter how his/her remark or action was intended. S/he will be punished or if possible destroyed. What s/he actually meant or intended is not a consideration. If it was politically incorrect, he/she must be dealt with without trial, mercy, or compassion.

I get so sick of it I could scream.

I dont disagree at all but I dont think it happens much at all in "everyday society" in politics absolutely and they bring it on themselves as much as people are guilty for wanting to judge them.

Everyday people arent like this in anyway, its only the nutters a minority of the gen pop. Now they might get a lot of media attention but again thats going into media not normal people.

 

[coldjoint]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

How many here have seen blatant racism in real life? I have not. Nobody says boo anymore. Racism is now a weapon, a tactic. :2wave:

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

How many here have seen blatant racism in real life? I have not. Nobody says boo anymore. Racism is now a weapon, a tactic. :2wave:

i have directly and indirectly "personally" seen it in real life multiple times

Seen it third person countless times


But by no means does that mean every time somebody says something is racists it is. In fact there was a thread here not to long ago that asked if something was racist and if factually was not, though the OP claimed it was.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

I dont disagree at all but I dont think it happens much at all in "everyday society" in politics absolutely and they bring it on themselves as much as people are guilty for wanting to judge them.

Everyday people arent like this in anyway, its only the nutters a minority of the gen pop. Now they might get a lot of media attention but again thats going into media not normal people.

But I do think it happens every day in ordinary society. I am not careful what word I use around people who know me and know who and what I am. I can call my relatives of Italian descent dago or wop and it's fine. They love it. And they can call me a redneck cracker and I love it. Of course none of us would do that around people who didn't know us and know the context we were using. I don't always finish a sentence or even a word around those who know me well because I know they got it without me saying it. Somebody listening in who didn't know me could get the wrong impression, however.

And it is just natural to refer to our friends and relatives of "Irish" descent as Irish, or of German descent "German" or Italian descent "Italian". So if it isn't racist to do that, why is it racist to call somebody of Mexican descent "Mexican"? Well, that's different some will say. Why? Why is it different? My "Mexican" relatives, all American born except for one who is a naturalized citizen all call themselves "Mexican". It seems to be different only to those who might be latent racists themselves. Who knows?

One of Donald Trump's personal selling points is that he talks like we all talk and not as the coached, careful scripted and memorized, politically correct politicians talk. And I honestly do think he has been unfairly slammed by the media including some of the more conservative Fox News people as well as the Trump haters on this and other message boards, Facebook, Twitter or whatever.

But. . . having said that. . . sometimes I think there is a deliberate intent to it too. Not an intent to be racist. Only an intent to stir up the media storms that have kept him leading every newscast and on all the front pages. The reason I think that is every time media interest begins to wane, he seems to come up with one of these more provocative statements. And we the gullible do seem to fall for it every single time. The man may indeed be brilliant. .

 

[haymarket]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

What more information would you need?

Reality rather than an obscure and vague hypothetical.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Racist, or not racist... You be the judge

1.) Actually per the rules of English and going by definition which you want us to do it applies 100%

That is incorrect. You are using a word that could be defined as a color, or an emotional state. My question has no words that could be interpreted multiple ways.

how about this
Here's the scenario:

Mr. Smith who is of race "x", says stabs and beats of Mr. Johnson, who is of race "z".
Does that make Mr. Smith and/or what he did racist?

theres no factual right answer here, it would be a guess.

My question is asking something different. Your scenario is asking me to determine if racism was the motive for a crime. If I said that I believed that race was a motivating factor in this crime, would that make my statement racist?

If so, then check either answer #1, #2 or #3. If not, then check answer #4