Progressive Leftists Win: Then What?

[Dans La Lune]

The current ones are all "defund the police" and "pronouns"....let me know when they revive their interest in simple working class issues, thanks.

Re-read the OP.

 

[noonereal]

RWNJs spend the rest of their lives sitting in their basements, hammering on their keyboards while muttering about "situational awareness" and stroking their AR15s.

I'll never understand these nutters who spoon the AR every night.

 

[Tigerace117]

Hitler, Stalin, and progressives share one thing that conservatives don't... They embrace socialism.

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Hitler murdered every socialist he could get his hands on.......while American conservatives cheered him on.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Who is paying for this if not taxpayers?

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money

Whether you call it single-payer or “Medicare for All,” it isn’t some socialist pipe dream. It’s a sensible, efficient and effective way to guarantee excellent health insurance to every…

thehill.com

The average tax payer pays FAR less in taxes than they would via the insurance market.

Do Medical Bills Really Bankrupt America's Families?

Medical bills can cause bankruptcies. Medical costs impact both household finances and the economy as a whole.

www.thebalance.com

"
Medical bills are reported to be the number one cause of U.S. bankruptcies. One study has claimed that 62.1% of bankruptcies were caused by medical issues.1
Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study
Another claims that over 2 million people are adversely affected by their medical expenses."

Are you done embarrassing yourself?

 

[Grim17]

Hitler murdered every socialist he could get his hands on.......while American conservatives cheered him on.

Yes he did, but only the socialists that weren't loyal to the NAZI party... Unlike it is here in America where there are essentially 2 political parties where one supports socialism (democrats, progressives) and one very much opposes it (republicans, conservatives), Germany had several political parties/movements that embraced socialism that were on the left, the right and the center politically. Not long after gained power he outlawed all other political parties and political organizations.

Hitler's NAZI party believed the world needed to be saved from communism, capitalism/democracy, and the Jewish race.

"Herr Hitler has built up a force estimated at about 30,000 armed men, but he is keeping them in the background and is for the moment concentrating on trying to convert some of the less stable elements of the working classes in the Bavarian towns to his National Socialist programmes."​

--August 1923, Morgan Philips Price, the Daily Herald​

Hitler despised communists, democratic socialists and any socialists who weren't national socialists (aka NAZIs).

.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hitler, Stalin, and progressives share one thing that conservatives don't... They embrace socialism.

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Hitler represented a right wing ideology, so you are factually incorrect there.

Also, conservatives embrace plenty of socialism just selectively and as it benefits them personally. People who don't embrace socialism are known as libertarians. Proof: when was the last time the conservatives voted against social security, the post office, medicare (in fact they expanded it with part d), or things like infrastructure spending? All of those things tend to pass with bi-partisan support.

 

[Grim17]

Hitler represented a right wing ideology, so you are factually incorrect there.

I said the 3 of them had socialism in common, not right or left ideologies.

See post #55.

Also, conservatives embrace plenty of socialism just selectively and as it benefits them personally. People who don't embrace socialism are known as libertarians. Proof: when was the last time the conservatives voted against social security, the post office, medicare (in fact they expanded it with part d), or things like infrastructure spending? All of those things tend to pass with bi-partisan support.

Republican's don't embrace those government programs, but they sure as hell can't defund them... Once you give people an entitlement, you can't take it away.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I said the 3 of them had socialism in common, not right or left ideologies.

See post #55.

Your statement here is self contradictory.

Also post 55 is a lie that conservatives tell themselves to avoid the shame of the extremes of their ideology.

Republican's don't embrace those government programs, but they sure as hell can't defund them... Once you give people an entitlement, you can't take it away.

Republicans have gone on record for all of these programs, they embrace socialism.

 

[element94]

I would personally implement a universal basic income to replace all welfare and raise millions out of poverty, but that's not mainstream progressive agenda point, so I didn't include it. Even though it is becoming more widely supported by mainstream economics. However, crime is largely solved through raising the quality of living for the average citizen, which was addressed in the scenario.

As much as I agree with this, there's probably a better chance that there will be a complete cure for cancer before that happens, and we know what a big business cancer is. Power is benefitting too much from the current situation. There can be responsible capitalism, but they wouldn't have it all in that scenario and we know they absolutely must have it all. I have to say I do like the big eff you from those workers refusing to jobs for garbage pay.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes he did, but only the socialists that weren't loyal to the NAZI party... Unlike it is here in America where there are essentially 2 political parties where one supports socialism (democrats, progressives) and one very much opposes it (republicans, conservatives), Germany had several political parties/movements that embraced socialism that were on the left, the right and the center politically. Not long after gained power he outlawed all other political parties and political organizations.

Hitler's NAZI party believed the world needed to be saved from communism, capitalism/democracy, and the Jewish race.

"Herr Hitler has built up a force estimated at about 30,000 armed men, but he is keeping them in the background and is for the moment concentrating on trying to convert some of the less stable elements of the working classes in the Bavarian towns to his National Socialist programmes."​

--August 1923, Morgan Philips Price, the Daily Herald​

Hitler despised communists, democratic socialists and any socialists who weren't national socialists (aka NAZIs).

.

Stop now, you've had your head handed to you in this so many times people have lost count.
Imagine traveling back in time and letting Union Banking Corp know that they were investing in a socialist regime.
Imagine then having coffee with Fritz Thyssen and saying the same thing.

Hitler wasn't anything remotely resembling LEFT at all, ever.

 

[Grim17]

Hitler wasn't anything remotely resembling LEFT at all, ever.

I never once said that Hitler was on the political left.

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[Checkerboard Strangler]

I never once said that Hitler was on the political left.

.

If you're saying (which you ARE) that Nazis are socialist, that IS what you're saying.
Socialism was an attractive idea in 1930's Europe, so everyone liked to slap the word "socialist" on anything that didn't move.

The 1990s Russian fascist party of Vladimir Zhirinovsky, for example, called itself the Liberal Democratic Party, though it was neither liberal nor democratic.
Nazi electoral campaigns of 1933 were funded mainly by the industrialists of the Ruhr valley, who opened their pockets to the Nazis only after Hermann Goering personally assured them in a series of meetings that there was NOTHING socialist about National Socialism. Had there been, they would never have opened their wallets and the world might have been saved a catastrophe. Prescott Bush and many other rightists on the international stage admired Hitler precisely because they saw him as the man to smash socialism and the Left.
Socialism is founded on the idea of human equality, but Nazism is founded on the exact opposite notion, radical (and racialized) human inequality, and in fact Hitler said many times that he believed he had been put on earth to destroy the idea of human equality. He regularly associated international socialism with Jewish conspiracy, and his financial support came from traditional right wing sources - big banks and industry. Now here you are, a Trump loving member of the extreme Right trying to rewrite history and pretend Nazism was really a form of "socialism".
It wasn't, not in any degree. If Hitler had been a socialist, he would never, ever have been bankrolled, appeased and admired by centres of conservative power in the way that he was.

 

[Grim17]

If you're saying (which you ARE) that Nazis are socialist, that IS what you're saying.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Socialism may be exclusive to the political left today, but back then socialism was accepted and supported in varying degrees by political parties and organizations in Germany and Europe that were on the left, the right and the center.

.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Socialism may be exclusive to the political left today, but back then socialism was accepted and supported in varying degrees by political parties and organizations in Germany and Europe that were on the left, the right and the center.

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And you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into hidebound ignorance with every word you blurt out.
There IS NO "left-right-center" of socialism, because the political Right despises every aspect of even the most mild form of socialism.
You need to cancel your Dennis Prager subscription and get back to reality.
You're just WRONG on EVERYTHING when it comes to Hitler, National Socialism, and notions of socialism being the same as fascism, etc etc etc bla bla bla quack quack quack.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Re-read the OP.

I HAVE read the OP word for word.
I'm not against most progressive POLICIES.
I'm irritated to the last nerve by the BEHAVIOR OF the current crop of "shitty white progressives" who appear to be at war with Democrats.
Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore, it's like watching a real time demonstration of the Horseshoe Effect, where they go so far Left
that they wind up coming around to the Extreme Right.

I love AOC, I think there's a lot that mainstream Dems need to listen to as regards progressive ideas.
But I am sick and tired of watching "perfect be the enemy of good" as the accelerationists hasten to cut loose a chunk of Dem support
because the entire party won't 100 percent kow-tow to them.
Sorry, that helps Trumpists...that's why so many "progressives" wind up being adored by Fox News.

November is coming, and we either reestablish a foothold in Congress with an effective majority in both chambers or we might
as well just hand everything over to the fascists here and now. We have ONE CHANCE left, one chance remaining.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I HAVE read the OP word for word.
I'm not against most progressive POLICIES.
I'm irritated to the last nerve by the BEHAVIOR OF the current crop of "shitty white progressives" who appear to be at war with Democrats.

You're mad at PROGRESSIVES for fighting for BETTER POLICIES, against a DEMOCRATIC MACHINE that HATES THEM more than REPUBLICANS.

Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore, it's like watching a real time demonstration of the Horseshoe Effect, where they go so far Left that they wind up coming around to the Extreme Right.

They're not left, they're Alt Left at best. Largely grifters. The progressive movement doesn't embrace them.

I love AOC, I think there's a lot that mainstream Dems need to listen to as regards progressive ideas.
But I am sick and tired of watching "perfect be the enemy of good" as the accelerationists hasten to cut loose a chunk of Dem support

So how long do we wait for better policies? The Democratic party has ceded the working class vote to REPUBLICANS FASCISTS.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Hey @Checkerboard Strangler:

Nancy Pelosi affirms support for U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar after FBI raid, primary runoff berth

The U.S. House speaker said during a stop Wednesday in Austin that she always supports her incumbents — “from right to left.”

www.texastribune.org

LOLOLOL. ****ing explain this.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Democratic leadership is DISGUSTING.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Hey @Checkerboard Strangler:

Nancy Pelosi affirms support for U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar after FBI raid, primary runoff berth

The U.S. House speaker said during a stop Wednesday in Austin that she always supports her incumbents — “from right to left.”

www.texastribune.org

LOLOLOL. ****ing explain this.

I have no explanation.
Why try to make it look like I think people are perfect instead of arguing the points in the thread?
I think Pelosi is making a really stupid mistake here.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're mad at PROGRESSIVES for fighting for BETTER POLICIES, against a DEMOCRATIC MACHINE that HATES THEM more than REPUBLICANS.
They're not left, they're Alt Left at best. Largely grifters. The progressive movement doesn't embrace them.

I don't think everyone in question has that demarcation as clear as you think it is.
And yes, part of that is due to the fact that Democratic Party messaging is about as disorganized and weak as can be imagined.
I'll tell YOU what MY views happen to be if asked, but that's more than the entire party has been doing.

 

[What if...?]

That's a pretty good start, but how about deconstructing capitalism next?

Capitalism doesn’t need deconstructing. Just a 400 year service.

Prisoners in the federal system are moved periodically because familiarity breeds misbehavior as they figure out over time how to get around the rules.

Same with capitalists.

 

[What if...?]

Re: “green renewable energy”— even Kerrey admits that electric cars will be dependent on natural gas.

Climate activists are all about selling pipe dreams, and that’s what all of this is.

What drugs do you think should be legal? All of them? How would that not lead to far more massive concentrations of homeless people in the big cities?

It’s so easy to claim that Lib government can take care of everything if you could just get the conservatives out of the way. The fallacy of that notion is shown by the inflation Sleepy Joe unleashed, long before Ukraine, from trying to please Progressives.

I’m looking at an electric car with the plan of some panels and a knockoff Tesla wall to feed it (when I’m in town, anyway).

Energy independence is here for the individual if they want it and can afford it.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I have no explanation.
Why try to make it look like I think people are perfect instead of arguing the points in the thread?
I think Pelosi is making a really stupid mistake here.

I am arguing against your premise, that the Democrats are 'good' and that progressives are acting against Democrats to the detriment of the GOOD POLICIES. That's precisely your argument.

What we have here is a clear example Pelosi acting in her own interest, and that of her corporate donors. Henry Cuellar is an anti-abortion corporate tool (nicknamed Trump's favorite Democrat) who actively sabotaged Biden's agenda, and JUST GOT RAIDED BY THE FBI. Pelosi endorsed him to prevent one more progressive from challenging her power. She hates progressives far, far more than any Republican. That's a fact. Republicans don't challenge her power, they help fuel her power.

Pelosi is corrupt, and as a general rule the Democrats are corrupt. The only ones who aren't corrupt are the Justice Democrats you complain about.

Trying to pin Jimmy Dore and (similar right-wing tools) on the progressives is also total garbage and brazenly dishonest.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am arguing against your premise, that the Democrats are 'good' and that progressives are acting against Democrats to the detriment of the GOOD POLICIES. That's precisely your argument.

What we have here is a clear example Pelosi acting in her own interest, and that of her corporate donors. Henry Cuellar is an anti-abortion corporate tool (nicknamed Trump's favorite Democrat) who actively sabotaged Biden's agenda, and JUST GOT RAIDED BY THE FBI. Pelosi endorsed him to prevent one more progressive from challenging her power. She hates progressives far, far more than any Republican. That's a fact. Republicans don't challenge her power, they help fuel her power.

Pelosi is corrupt, and as a general rule the Democrats are corrupt. The only ones who aren't corrupt are the Justice Democrats you complain about.

Trying to pin Jimmy Dore and (similar right-wing tools) on the progressives is also total garbage and brazenly dishonest.

Hey, vote for Trump then...what is it you want from me?
The Dems are corrupt and not worth anything to you, right?
Then let Trump back in, see how that works out.

Is that what you want? Really? Because that's what you're going to get, guaranteed.

PS: Jimmy Dore started out as LEFT, so if you're labeling him a right wing tool you are actually endorsing my argument.
Same goes for Taibbi and a half dozen other members of the so called Alt-Left.

Vote for Trump, you know you will, if only to stick another blade in the eye of the Democratic Party.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Hey, vote for Trump then...what is it you want from me?

The ability to defend your point, for one. We shouldn't criticize Democrats or fight for better policies because Trump is worse? That appears to be what you're saying.

'Those stupid progressives and their Defund the Police Rhetoric!' (that movement WON Biden the election in 2020, but lets throw them under the bus because James Clyburn disagrees and it doesn't play well with the Lincoln Project)

The Dems are corrupt and not worth anything to you, right?

The Dems are a vehicle to enact progressive policy. That's it. If they can't do that, they're worthless.

PS: Jimmy Dore started out as LEFT

So did Dave Rubin. Are you saying Dave Rubin is of the left?

Jimmy Dore is, at best, a Third Party activist, and spends 90% of his time throwing bombs at progressives. Tulsi Gabbard is a Hindi Nationalist who started out as an LGBTQ bigot.

Meanwhile the mainstream Democratic Party actually IS represented by Steny Hoyer, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Manchin, Henry Cuellar and Krysten Sinema. You can't run away from that.