Progressive Leftists Win: Then What? (1 Viewer)

[Dans La Lune]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

 

[HIP56948]

Yuck. Sounds like a nightmare. I like nightmares.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

RWNJs spend the rest of their lives sitting in their basements, hammering on their keyboards while muttering about "situational awareness" and stroking their AR15s.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

That's a pretty good start, but how about deconstructing capitalism next?

 

[Schism]

and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement

What's stopping the left from accomplishing that now in their major cities?

Because all they're doing now is letting them camp wherever, give them needles, and clean up after them.

...wait, is that what you mean when you say treatment? ...eating from garbage cans, stealing everything not locked down, and defecating on the sidewalk?

 

[donhughesmusic]

Then what? The same place we end up being at after EVERY... SINGLE... ELECTION!

No matter what side wins, the other says it will be the end of our country, and EVERY... SINGLE... TIME... our country is still here.

 

[less right]

What's stopping the left from accomplishing that now in their major cities?

Because all they're doing now is letting them camp wherever, give them needles, and clean up after them.

...wait, is that what you mean when you say treatment? ...eating from garbage cans, stealing everything not locked down, and defecating on the sidewalk?

Rural America has just as many addicts. They just spread them out so they don't all throw their crack pipes on the same sidewalk.

 

[Jay59]

Your first nightmare was less scary.

What do you plan to call big brother in this scenario?

 

[Grand Mal]

What's stopping the left from accomplishing that now in their major cities?

Because all they're doing now is letting them camp wherever, give them needles, and clean up after them.

...wait, is that what you mean when you say treatment? ...eating from garbage cans, stealing everything not locked down, and defecating on the sidewalk?

Legalize drugs and sell them at cost to addicts.
Problem soloved.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

How about ordinary Democrats win? Why must we play extremes?

 

[Lisa]

RWNJs spend the rest of their lives sitting in their basements, hammering on their keyboards while muttering about "situational awareness" and stroking their AR15s.

As long as they are not out omn the streets shooting at people Im satisfied.

 

[btthegreat]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

Most of this sounds good, I suppose, as a good foundation for discussion at least, except ditching the minimum wage because of the 'strong labor movement'. Strong labor movements helped get these laws passed in the first place because they just could not be everywhere and still be voted in/ or out by the potential membership. Lets have both a minimum wage, and a strong labor movement. The labor leaders don't seem to mind!

 

[Grim17]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

Don't forget you also have to rename the country from USA to NAFL... "North American Fantasy Land". Make sure you replace the stars in the flag with the faces of Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Vladimir Lenin, Kim Jong-Un, Mao Zedong, Tito, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, and any other revolutionary murderers you can think of.... And don't forget the Hollywood hero and crowned prince of 21st century socialism... Hugo Chavez. He turned one of the richest, most prosperous countries in South America into a shining example of the socialist utopia that people like you want to usher in.

I think you should show Americans the heights of happiness and prosperity that could be reached if they signed on to the progressive/socialist agenda you are pushing:

 

[Mithrae]

How about ordinary Democrats win? Why must we play extremes?

What the... what? What was 'extreme' about the OP scenario? It didn't propose a UBI, didn't try to radically change standard working hours or otherwise come to grips with the disruptive trends of increasing automation, didn't really address wealth and income inequality at all (just offered a few minimalist ideas to help prop up the low end a little better and mitigate disproportionate influence of the wealthy in politics), certainly didn't advocate any of the 'culture war' bogeymen of conservatives such as abolishing the police and (rather confusingly) implementing a big brother/nanny state or teaching kids to be gay or trans or guilty about their race, and as @Nomad4Ever suggested didn't try to fundamentally change the world-eating system of capitalism at all. Heck, it didn't even mention gun control! Which part was 'extreme' to you?

Perhaps more to the point, what do 'ordinary Democrats' stand for by implication... nothing but the same old status quo and trends of the past few decades? And then they wonder why they struggle to beat the other right-wing party?

 

[Nomad4Ever]

as @Nomad4Ever suggested didn't try to fundamentally change the world-eating system of capitalism at all. Heck, it didn't even mention gun control!

Thanks for the shoutout

But yes, the OP would barely put us within what would be considered average for most other industrialized countries. The only thing that went further than what exists in many countries already was “banning all corporate money from politics” which isn’t even that left of a position at all, it’s just difficult to implement in the real world. In fact from an economic perspective OP really isn’t that left. No minimum wage because of a strong labor movement? So what, we would just have like strong unions? In Germany workers are required by law to get a certain amount of seats on the board of directors.

I think if we are making up a far left progressive victory in the US we can dare to imagine something better than the OP.

 

[Mithrae]

The only thing that went further than what exists in many countries already was “banning all corporate money from politics” which isn’t even that left of a position at all, it’s just difficult to implement in the real world.

Ah yes, it only mentioned corporate donations... not limits to individual donations or even the most basic commonsense requirement that politicians may only accept campaign money from their voting constituents, in the public record. So, not even really doing much to mitigate billionaire's influence in politics.

In fact from an economic perspective OP really isn’t that left. No minimum wage because of a strong labor movement? So what, we would just have like strong unions? In Germany workers are required by law to get a certain amount of seats on the board of directors.

I think if we are making up a far left progressive victory in the US we can dare to imagine something better than the OP.

I suppose the point is "Here are some progressive/left-leaning ideas and look, they're not that scary!" And then it turns out that even the slightest bit of change from the status quo is still scary to 'ordinary Democrats,' because it's the same kind of mistake as 'ordinary Democrats' are (presumably) making in their way of thinking about political strategy: Trying to be 'moderate' not by advocating sensible ideas and explaining them to people, but by following along just a step or two behind the increasing rightward shifts of the other party. Instead of trying to normalize sensible and genuinely moderate ideas, letting 'normal' become defined as a little less far-right than the Republican party. In fact that's the same sort of thing as the many comments we've seen over the past few years about playing dirty in politics, that supposedly the Democrats are 'weak' for playing fair even knowing the Republicans never will, so instead of standing up for decency and integrity Democrats should start playing dirty too.

In both areas, this kind of 'strategy' misses the fact that things like tribalism/partisanship and politics of insecurity or fear play far more to right-wing strengths than the inclusivity and egalitarianism which tend to animate left-wing politics; the longer those trends of inequality, division, societal and ecological breakdown are allowed to persist, the harder it'll be to ever unwind the ratchet... and more likely it'll simply have to be smashed to pieces in the end.

 

[Simpletruther]

Rural America has just as many addicts. They just spread them out so they don't all throw their crack pipes on the same sidewalk.

I doubt it, but even if so, why isn't the enlightened leftist answers working s y better after decades of control in major cities?

Take a city like San Fran, it's incredibly rich, so there should be plenty of taxes to solve these problems yet I come inequality and horrible problems like homelessness plague it worst than most.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I doubt it, but even if so, why isn't the enlightened leftist answers working s y better after decades of control in major cities?

Take a city like San Fran, it's incredibly rich, so there should be plenty of taxes to solve these problems yet I come inequality and horrible problems like homelessness plague it worst than most.

California is on the way to solving these problems by recent legislation which helps to resolve problematic zoning regulations, which should create more affordable housing.

Is California’s Latest Zoning Law Change the End to Suburbs?

A new law allows single-family homes to be transformed into a property with up to four homes, which could result in much denser neighborhoods. Many San Diego residents worry this will drastically change suburbs.

www.governing.com

However, a lot of the drug use is cultural and not economic.

 

[Craig234]

That's a pretty good start, but how about deconstructing capitalism next?

Corporatism isn't going anywhere. Really things are more likely to go the other direction, to a more and more China-like situation where the powerful ensure the government's role is to protect them from the people, who are just a minor nuisance. They have tools like the right-wing propaganda shows AND Chinese propaganda shows AND Putin's propaganda shows are good at preventing public power, at preventing democracy.

 

[Craig234]

How about ordinary Democrats win? Why must we play extremes?

Progressives aren't "extreme". They are what should be the middle, with Republicans and 'normal Democrats' to the right and others to the left. Like they were in the FDR era when even an all-Republican government praised labor unions and had a top tax rate of 90% and far lower inequality.

 

[AGENT J]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

Corporate donations are banned from politics
America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt.
Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages.
America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning.

These things are right or left things to any large degree that Im aware. Millions of "everyday people" want this and it could be done now if congress didnt suck so bad


America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse.
Lots of people want this too, BUT its way easier to say on paper than to actually do and many dont agree on the how, when or even understand green really isnt achievable yet when you look at all aspects. Greener than we are now? arguably so. Greener at poluting the air? sure, greener at waste in general . . not so much

Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.
This one is tricky too, all drugs? some drugs? and its not just the legal part . . theres also the healthcare pharmaceutical part of it too


the worse part about politics in the country right now is that CONGRESS is full of nutters and "we the people" don't fix that and that congress caterers to the nutters because they are loudest and most active, and again we the people don't fix that

Nutters ALWAYS exist on every side but they used to be in the back of the room and we'd ignore them a lot or occasionally bring them to the front to rally troops or a cause but then quickly put them back, in the back of the room . . .
now nutters are IN congress and stand among us and are at the front of the room having meltdowns and we let them . . .its a huge issue. . . .

Flat earthers are growing
people believe the big lie
the capital was attacked
science and fact is meaningless to some peoples "research" while they are on the toilet
false narratives like CRT, or dont say gay issues are believed and even legislated.. .while healthcare is still backburnered and infrastructure and education needs struggle

its crazy

 

[AGENT J]

Don't forget you also have to rename the country from USA to NAFL... "North American Fantasy Land". Make sure you replace the stars in the flag with the faces of Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Vladimir Lenin, Kim Jong-Un, Mao Zedong, Tito, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, and any other revolutionary murderers you can think of.... And don't forget the Hollywood hero and crowned prince of 21st century socialism... Hugo Chavez. He turned one of the richest, most prosperous countries in South America into a shining example of the socialist utopia that people like you want to usher in.

I think you should show Americans the heights of happiness and prosperity that could be reached if they signed on to the progressive/socialist agenda you are pushing:

View attachment 67381954

View attachment 67381955

 

[Ouroboros]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

Re: “green renewable energy”— even Kerrey admits that electric cars will be dependent on natural gas.

Climate activists are all about selling pipe dreams, and that’s what all of this is.

What drugs do you think should be legal? All of them? How would that not lead to far more massive concentrations of homeless people in the big cities?

It’s so easy to claim that Lib government can take care of everything if you could just get the conservatives out of the way. The fallacy of that notion is shown by the inflation Sleepy Joe unleashed, long before Ukraine, from trying to please Progressives.

 

[Luckyone]

The Progressive Left wins the cultural and political war, allowing them to shape America for the next 50 years. Corporate donations are banned from politics. America attains a form of Medicare-For-All, saving tax payers significant economic resources, saving tens of thousands of lives year, and preventing countless more from going bankrupt. Healthcare is uncoupled from employment, allowing greater flexibility in career choices and the potential for increased wages. There is no need for a minimum wage, as there is a strong labor movement. America provides affordable pre-K, allowing for tremendous flexibility in career planning. Women are encouraged and empowered to have children, rather than the most vulnerable being forced into it by the state. America transitions to green renewable energy, which shifts foreign policy away from conflict and dependance on tyrannical allies, allowing for a reasonable restructuring of military investment -- and also likely saves humanity from a climate apocalypse. Drugs become legal, and addiction is treated rather than punished by law enforcement. America's policies go further than the most happiest place on Earth (Nordic nations), and other nations follow suit.

Where is humanity at the end of 50 years? I'd say since the people are no longer struggling to survive, there is less hostility towards immigrants, minorities, and the LGBTQ. The culture wars lose their fuel, and ethnic nationalism is effectively impossible as a successful political ideology.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Don't forget you also have to rename the country from USA to NAFL... "North American Fantasy Land". Make sure you replace the stars in the flag with the faces of Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Vladimir Lenin, Kim Jong-Un, Mao Zedong, Tito, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, and any other revolutionary murderers you can think of.... And don't forget the Hollywood hero and crowned prince of 21st century socialism... Hugo Chavez. He turned one of the richest, most prosperous countries in South America into a shining example of the socialist utopia that people like you want to usher in.

I think you should show Americans the heights of happiness and prosperity that could be reached if they signed on to the progressive/socialist agenda you are pushing:

View attachment 67381954

View attachment 67381955

Assuming progressives will be like Stalin is like assuming hardcore conservatives will be like Hitler.

There's no point in just lazily going to extremes to avoid discussion, which is what you are doing.