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I'm not just mad because I think Bernie Sanders is better on policy, and empirically better as a political candidate. I'm also mad because I don't want Donald Trump to be President of the United States! YOU COULDN'T HAND HIM A BETTER DEMOCRAT TO RUN AGAINST! God they LIE OVER AND OVER AGAIN! I don't know what's worse: their LIES or their IGNORANCE in Washington and New York. "Oh, Hillary's great! Hillary's great! I'll close my eyes to all the numbers." Finally, we go to Natalie Jackson at Huffington Post, saying, 'Until we have more polls," And this is just one indication, I'm using this as an example and to be fair to her there are about a dozen articles today saying things just exactly like this, "and as long as Clinton is still battling Sanders, the general election numbers will be unstable. So don't freak out about an individual poll result. Wait until June for more stability and in the meantime look at the polling averages. HuffPost Pollster's averages show Clinton 3 points ahead in Florida, 1 point in front in Ohio and leading by 5 points in Pennsylvania." Wait a minute, first of all - I just quoted you 3 polls from TODAY. TODAY. Let alone, EVERY OTHER POLL showing Bernie Sanders winning. You CAN'T show me a SINGLE poll done in the last - what - 2 months, 3 months, 4 months... that has Hillary Clinton doing better against ANY Republican than Bernie Sanders. You can't show it. It doesn't exist. I can show you DOZENS of polls. Right? "Oh, it's just one poll!" NO, it's NOT one poll! That's a LIE!
And in order to reassure us, and not have us freak-out, "Oh don't worry, in my combination of polls: Hillary Clinton is up by ONE POINT in Ohio, to Donald-Frikken-Trump. No, no, no - I think you missed it. That is not a reason NOT to freak-out. That is a reason to freak-out. So, OK, the arrogance of the Democratic Party, and every pundit in Washington, New York continues. "We know better than the American people, we know Hillary Clinton is a 'wonderful' candidate, we know that Bernie Sanders can't win (even though EVERY POLL shows the opposite). And we know you shouldn't take Donald Trump seriously, c'mon! He's less popular than lice! No, don't worry about Hillary's negative 20 in favorability in the state of Florida! Don't worry about it! Close your eyes to it! Everything'll be fine!" No, I'm telling you right now. Everything is not going to be fine if we continue on this trajectory. You have to change the dynamic of this race immediately. The fact that she is TIED with Donald Trump, right now, in those swing-states, is ABYSMAL. If you're a Progressive you should be absolutely FRIGHTENED by that.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - Hillary R. Clinton - if you do not concede to Bernie Sanders, if you do not at least make him your running-mate - YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE and hand Donald ****ing Trump the WHITE HOUSE and DOOM THIS ENTIRE ****ING COUNTRY.
Shame on you, you selfish, arrogant, corrupt, lying, cheating, elitist, sell-out.
Considering how nasty this discussion might get, mods. You might wanna keep an eye on it to move downstairs, just in case.
Sort of, Trump is closing some distance and doing better in certain polling but the overall spread still has Hillary out front by at least +6.
It is going to be a long election season...
View attachment 67201256
RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton
6 points in May...Means absolutely nothing. Dukakis was leading Bush Sr. by 20 in July.
The problem is that Trump is enormously exciting for his growing base, and Clinton is more like the root canal you have do to stop worse things to happening.
People are known to shirk unpleasant duties.
She is still more likely to win, but not a sure thing at all.
There's really not much value in her picking Sanders as her Veep choice. The Sanders people won't vote for Trump and because they are adamant about it, they will vote for Clinton. They don't want Trump to win.
There's a huge chunk of Bernie's fanbase that will not under any circumstances vote for Clinton. Probably big enough to hand Trump the keys to the White House.
There's a huge chunk of Bernie's fanbase that will not under any circumstances vote for Clinton. Probably big enough to hand Trump the keys to the White House.
She could always take Kerry as her mate.
There's a huge chunk of Bernie's fanbase that will not under any circumstances vote for Clinton. Probably big enough to hand Trump the keys to the White House.
And I am one of them. But I don't know if I'm going to vote for Trump. Most likely I'm gonna vote 3rd Party. Or just stay home and watch it all tumble down.There's a huge chunk of Bernie's fanbase that will not under any circumstances vote for Clinton. Probably big enough to hand Trump the keys to the White House.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - Hillary R. Clinton - if you do not concede to Bernie Sanders, if you do not at least make him your running-mate - YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE and hand Donald ****ing Trump the WHITE HOUSE and DOOM THIS ENTIRE ****ING COUNTRY.
Shame on you, you selfish, arrogant, corrupt, lying, cheating, elitist, sell-out.
That's true. And there's also a huge chunk of consistent Republican voters that will not under any circumstances vote for Trump. Like me, for instance.
Hmm interesting concept.Not sure what is the lesser of the 2 evils. They might as well hold hands and go to the WH together. Hold that thought, that's what nightmares are made of.
Right. The other factor is the former-BoBs that are now voting for Trump, like Captain Adverse.
So, again, like Cenk said, the problem here is the arrogant establishment underestimating Trump thinking he'll be a cakewalk.
Yeah, that's what the other 16 Republicans that ran against him thought, too...
Hmm interesting concept.
Could Hillary name Trump as her running mate and Trump, Clinton as his?
Since Hillary had most super delegates in the bag before we got started, I believe pigs can fly.
Right now...WITHOUT ANY SUPER DELEGATE VOTES...the count stands at:
Hillary Clinton 1705
Bernie Sanders 1414
Hillary Clinton is leading by almost 300 votes...WITHOUT ANY SUPER DELEGATES.
In raw votes...Hillary Clinton leads Bernie Sanders by over 2 million votes...Clinton 9.4 million to Sanders 7 million.
What is all this nonsense about the super delegates?
Here is my issue with that. Since Clinton bowed down in 2008, she has been the presumed nominee for 2016. Super delegates reflect as much.
Dems needed a puppet to run against her, found one in Sanders, but never fathomed him becoming this popular. An old man who hardly anyone had heard of is giving the queen a run for her money. How crazy is that?
So now the Dems have a dilemma. By all counts, Sanders is more popular than Clinton could have ever imagined.
What's more, the race is not yet over, Clinton keeps dangling all kind of baggage behind her, and Trump is calling her out on it.
Hey, you are probably right that she will win the nomination, but it is not because she earned it. She will be because it was predetermined to be so.
If Dem voters, mainly Sanders supporters, have any backbone at all, they will stand up for themselves at the convention.
That is no "issue with that."
She IS winning...both in delegates won count...and in raw numbers of primary voters. She IS winning without the super delegates.
C'mon, Lovebug. That is NOT how the process worked.
Anyone who wanted to run could run. The Dems did not select Bernie Sanders to run against her...HE SELECTED HIMSELF. And to his credit, he is doing very, very nicely. (Even if the Republicans early in the game kept accusing the opposition of having no contest.)
MORE DELEGATES WON...AND MORE RAW COUNT!!!!!!!!!
You are correct on that. Trump will be his normal revolting self. This will be a horrible campaign to witness.
MORE DELEGATES WON...AND MORE RAW COUNT!!!!!!!!!
How many more times does that have to be said in order for it to penetrate.
You are welcome to that opinion. I could not disagree more.
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