Political Correctness: A Problem?

[Captain Adverse]

Your reduction of the social to the personal is a clear intellectual flaw, no matter what you believe.

Ignorance. The word 'nigger', when used by others, is the use of 'black person' as a pejorative. If you cannot understand that, perhaps I'm not the person to help you.

Terror against a community is not the same as terror against and entire category of people everywhere.

Using the word is not the problem. Using the word as a pejorative against all black people is the problem. Do try to grasp that.

Your entire position is sophistry. One might even argue an example of "Black Privilege."

"We can use it because it doesn't mean the same thing as when you do."

"We can react in righteous indignation because when you say it you hurt all of us." :roll:

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Free speech covers all speech, save that which amounts to a direct incitation to criminal action; everything else is and should be fair game, regardless of whether or not someone is offended or insulted by said speech. "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell

And unless the government is criminalizing speech, this has nothing at all to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech means that you face no penalties from the government for what you say. It does not mean that you are free from criticism by others. For example, Joe says something racist. Jim says "Hey Joe what you said was racist". Joe's freedom of speech was not violated by Jim pointing out that what he said was racist.

 

[RJApple]

Political correctness is the process of finding out that what we once thought was perfectly fine and normal is actually quite offensive to certain demographics.

For instance, time was that many - and perhaps most - whites thought the n-word was perfectly normal and acceptable...until we learned that no, it wasn't. Time was that most of us didn't realize that "redskin" was indeed a racial slur and used as such. Time was that it was normal for us men to assume that if a woman was in a really bad mood, it must be "that time of the month". Time was that if a man was homosexual, it was normal to assume that he was a pervert and should be tossed in jail.

The backlash against political correctness is by those who can't get used to the fact that they are no longer the final arbiters of what is and is not acceptable in the public eye. But - to borrow a phrase from the Borg - resistance is futile. Change has come and is continuing like a slow-moving tidal wave, and the only choice one has is whether to surf it...or to sink beneath it.

The problem with political correctness arises when certain groups (*cough* SJW's and Feminists *cough*) attempt to censor speakers with whom the disagree (see practically any speech Mill Yiannopoulos has give at a university), usuallt by either A) interrupting the speech and attempting to shout down the speaker, B) request the administration rescend the speaker's invitation, assuming they issued it, C) preventing those who wish to hear the speaker from entering the venue (as occurred during one of Ben Shapiro's talks), or D) all of the above. Further, these same groups often seek to deny facts and propogate lies in the name of political correctness.

 

[grip]

The rhetoric is small-minded:

1. Person that believes X commits a crime.
2. X is a problem.

Can you honestly see this "logic" and not feel pity for those that ascribe to such?

Well, if you put it that way it sounds like I'm the problem for believing I was punished for my beliefs, without obvious proof. You're being incongruous for not agreeing with my perception, but at least not PC. Haha tricked ya...lol

Nah, I see what you're saying and honestly I have to agree that maybe my own dial is turned a little too tight also.

 

[Captain Adverse]

And unless the government is criminalizing speech, this has nothing at all to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech means that you face no penalties from the government for what you say. It does not mean that you are free from criticism by others. For example, Joe says something racist. Jim says "Hey Joe what you said was racist". Joe's freedom of speech was not violated by Jim pointing out that what he said was racist.

No problems as long as Jim doesn't follow up the comment with a punch to Joe's face.

 

[ecofarm]

Your entire position is sophistry. One might even argue an example of "Black Privilege."

An example of "Black Privilege"? hahaha I guess we know where you're coming form. A poor victim.

"We can use it because it doesn't mean the same thing as when you do."

Exactly. And not very difficult to understand. A black person using it is obviously not calling all black people bad, but is using it to describe a subgroup. A white person using it is, unequivocally, using it to denigrate an entire race.

"We can react in righteous indignation because when you say it you hurt all of us." :roll:

Using an innocent group as a pejorative harms society. There is no argument to be had.

 

[RJApple]

And unless the government is criminalizing speech, this has nothing at all to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech means that you face no penalties from the government for what you say. It does not mean that you are free from criticism by others. For example, Joe says something racist. Jim says "Hey Joe what you said was racist". Joe's freedom of speech was not violated by Jim pointing out that what he said was racist.

Yes, exactly, I'm glad we agree. And at least Jim has enough dignity to talk to Joe rather than breaking down in tears and running off to a safe space.

 

[Captain Adverse]

An example of "Black Privilege"? hahaha I guess we know where you're coming form. A poor victim.



Exactly. And not very difficult to understand. A black person using it is obviously not calling all black people bad, but is using it to describe a subgroup. A white person using it is, unequivocally, using it to denigrate an entire race.



Using an innocent group as a pejorative harms society. There is no argument to be had.

...and yet, here we are arguing. :coffeepap:

 

[ecofarm]

Well, if you put it that way it sounds like I'm the problem for believing I was punished for my beliefs, without obvious proof. You're being incongruous for not agreeing with my perception, but at least not PC. Haha tricked ya...lol

Nah, I see what you're saying and honestly I have to agree that maybe my own dial is turned a little too tight also.

If we start blaming a belief in X for crime, there will be nothing left to believe.

 

[ecofarm]

...and yet, here we are arguing. :coffeepap:

You believe using an innocent group as a pejorative does not harm society?

 

[TheGoverness]

Exactly. And not very difficult to understand. A black person using it is obviously not calling all black people bad, but is using it to describe a subgroup. A white person using it is, unequivocally, using it to denigrate an entire race.

What? Not in every situation does a white person say the word 'nigger' to denigrate black people. The word can also be used in context and have no hatred behind it at all, but people still tend to get iffy about it.

 

[grip]

If we start blaming a belief in X for crime, there will be nothing left to believe.

This is downright dirty that you've gotten me to disagree with my own thread. Now listen fella, PC is bad, right?

 

[ecofarm]

This is downright dirty that you've gotten me to disagree with my own thread. Now listen fella, PC is bad, right?

I'll give you an out. PC might be bad, but we cannot use the commission of crime in its name to prove such.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You believe using an innocent group as a pejorative does not harm society?

I'm a member of that group. I have a problem with anyone who uses the N word. But I don't go ballistic when they do. :shrug:

I may speak up, I may ignore it, or I may walk away. I am also free to consider the person using it an ignorant ass and choose to avoid associating with them.

I don't believe I have the right to stop them from speaking it. Isn't that the point of free expression?

To me, I'd prefer people be allowed to speak their minds out in the open...that way I can see who a problem might exist with rather than having them hide it behind false smiles.

 

[ecofarm]

What? Not in every situation does a white person say the word 'nigger' to denigrate black people. The word can also be used in context and have no hatred behind it at all, but people still tend to get iffy about it.

As I've already stated, if it's not used to designate blacks as a pejorative it's not a problem. People might get iffy about it, but it's the pejorative use that harms society.

 

[TheGoverness]

I'm a member of that group. I have a problem with anyone who uses the N word. But I don't go ballistic when they do. :shrug:

I may speak up, I may ignore it, or I may walk away. I am also free to consider the person using it an ignorant ass and choose to avoid associating with them.

I don't believe I have the right to stop them from speaking it.

I agree. I don't feel like I have the right to correct anybody's speech, no matter how hateful it is. And when it comes to racist morons spouting nonsense (and they come in every shape and color), I usually tend to just ignore them or just laugh them off.

 

[grip]

I'll give you an out. PC might be bad, but we cannot use the commission of crime in its name to prove such.

What about in another environment, such as a communist government, where PC is paramount to crime? Seriously, you don't think we're (USA) headed that way?

 

[TheGoverness]

As I've already stated, if it's not used to designate blacks as a pejorative it's not a problem. People might get iffy about it, but it's the pejorative use that harms society.

But some people still do find a problem with it, though. Some act like that word is 'off limits' to white people, even when used in context.

 

[ecofarm]

I'm a member of that group. I have a problem with anyone who uses the N word. But I don't go ballistic when they do. :shrug:

That's because you don't understand the real problem. The real problem is not a word, it's the use of an innocent group as a pejorative.

I may speak up, I may ignore it, or I may walk away. I am also free to consider the person using it an ignorant ass and choose to avoid associating with them.

Nonetheless, the use of an innocent group as a pejorative harms society no matter what you do.

I don't believe I have the right to stop them from speaking it.

Well, I hope you'd agree that opposing a word is stupid in the first place. We oppose using the black race as a pejorative.

 

[grip]

But some people still do find a problem with it, though. Some act like that word is 'off limits' to white people, even when used in context.

There's not really a context where I see that word available in any context to whites, because of its history. I don't agree with 'white guilt' but I do see a problem with certain terminological references.

 

[Captain Adverse]

That's because you don't understand the real problem. The real problem is not a word, it's the use of an innocent group as a pejorative.

Really? I that your response to someone in the "group" who doesn't agree with your position? Arrogantly assume a better understanding of the problem? I am tired of using the rolling eyes emoji.

It's hurting my emoticon eyes.

 

[ecofarm]

But some people still do find a problem with it, though. Some act like that word is 'off limits' to white people, even when used in context.

I believe this results from there being two schools of thought:

1. Ban the word.
2. Change the meaning of the word.

Even among blacks, individuals might ascribe to either school of thought. Those ascribing to the 'ban it' position would not be happy with anyone using it and I've known blacks that object to other blacks (and whites, even in context) using the word. And then there are those that feel only those oppressed in the word's use can change the word, thereby excluding whites from option 2 above.

 

[TheGoverness]

There's not really a context where I see that word available in any context to whites, because of its history. I don't agree with 'white guilt' but I do see a problem with certain terminological references.

When I'm talking about context, I'm taking about a situation where a white person simply states that "Person A called Susan a nigger", and somebody getting uncomfortable with them using the word, even though it was used in context. That's what I mean, really.

 

[Grand Mal]

I just heard on FOX News that people are taking Trump's anti-political correctness too far. Anyone agree?

I understand social values but this 'speech control' seems like a way of oppressing others. What say you?

I say that once you use the term, 'politically correct' you've created a problem. It's a derogatory term that some low-functioning right whingers use to describe a whole category of social evils. The term has meaning only on a case-by-case basis and only to the far left. Literally nobody who isn't a far-left extremist cares about 'politically correct'.

 

[ecofarm]

Really? I that your response to someone in the "group" who doesn't agree with your position? Arrogantly assume a better understanding of the problem? I am tired of using the rolling eyes emoji.

Being of a particular race does not impart sociological understanding of the issue. Sure, I'll never know what it's like to suffer a socially impactful pejorative against my race (white), but that does not mean I lack a sociological understanding of the issue. Let's not conflate the two understandings.