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Patriotism: The Last Resort of Scoundrels

Deuce

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Some of the time, I suppose? There are definitely people who fall back onto an emotional crutch of patriotism when they're trying to justify their views or actions but can't do it any other way. So yes, I agree that "scoundrels" will often resort to trying to win an argument by waving a flag.
 

TurtleDude

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Children tend to be the last refuge of the socialist.
 

cpwill

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scoundrels will resort to screaming any emotion that they feel is positve in order to cover their own failures.

for example; dissent was the highest form of patriotism..... until Obama was elected President :) then it became 'sedition'. ;)
 

webrockk

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Do you agree with this statement?

YouTube - Sandra Oh reads Emma Goldman

I, personally, could not be more in agreement with Ms. Goldman on this one. Though, in all fairness, I tend to agree with Ms. Goldman on a lot of things.

Anarchist, anti-capitialist Emma advocated political murder and violent revolution.....why am I not surprised someone proclaiming themselves "very liberal" would tend to agree with Ms. Goldman.
 
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FinnMacCool

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Anarchist, anti-capitialist Emma advocated political murder and violent revolution.....why am I not surprised someone proclaiming themselves "very liberal" would tend to agree with Ms. Goldman.

That has nothing to do at all with what I posted. It's true, that anarchism has been associated with violence but so has every single political theory in history. What's your point?

Children tend to be the last refuge of the socialist.

Stop trolling.
 
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1069

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scoundrels will resort to screaming any emotion that they feel is positve in order to cover their own failures.

for example; dissent was the highest form of patriotism..... until Obama was elected President :) then it became 'sedition'. ;)

Yeah, that was weird.
All the sudden, supporting the President is considered "subversive" and "un-American".
Vilifying the President is considered every red-blooded American's patriotic duty.

Sure is a turnaround from the way things were three years ago.
 

webrockk

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That has nothing to do at all with what I posted. It's true, that anarchism has been associated with violence but so has every single political theory in history. What's your point?



Stop trolling.

Well........what was your point? I didn't reveal that I "tend to agree with Ms. Goldman"...a violent, radical anarchist that had a penchant for plotting murder and violent revolution. That, my friend, was you.
 
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First Thought

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Well........what was your point? I didn't reveal that I "tend to agree with Ms. Goldman"...a violent, radical anarchist that had a penchant for plotting murder and violent revolution. That, my friend, was you.

I think his point is quite apparent if you read the first post in this thread.
 

Jetboogieman

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Some other quotes on patriotism I found interesting.

Each nation feels superior to other nations. That breeds patriotism - and wars.
Dale Carnegie


Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
Albert Einstein


It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind.
Voltaire


Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.
Guy de Maupassant


Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain


The greater the state, the more wrong and cruel its patriotism, and the greater is the sum of suffering upon which its power is founded.
Leo Tolstoy


The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?
Pablo Casals
 

Dav

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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain

Probably the only one there I agree with.


Patriotism in healthy quantities creates positive results in the form of people doing things to improve their country. Nationalism in excess is what leads to wars.
 

hazlnut

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Some of the time, I suppose? There are definitely people who fall back onto an emotional crutch of patriotism when they're trying to justify their views or actions but can't do it any other way. So yes, I agree that "scoundrels" will often resort to trying to win an argument by waving a flag.

Recently, some high schoolers thought they'd be cute and get all decked out in American flags on Cinco De Mayo. Hardy, har-har... Then the school overreacted and it became national news. Next thing, their mommies are on Fox crying that their Jr. patriots can't go to school because they've been threatened. And the far-righties argued that if the Mexican-Americans don't like the American flag, they should just go back to Mexico.

And Lady Liberty does a face palm... groaning in shame at some of the things that come out of the mouths of "patriots".
 

Areopagitican

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Enjoying the liberty to express your political beliefs, such as through the display of a flag, is hardly a sign of patriotism. Much less defending it against ephermereal 'rights' ensuring political correctness.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

I believe, and hope, that it is not "America" that builds American patriotism, but instead the rights with which it is based, maintained and continues. In that sense, criticizing patriotism through the actions of the American government is, at best, inane.
 
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webrockk

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The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

J.S. Mill, in that sentence, accurately describes every liberal / leftist / progressive / centrist / moderate I've ever had the misfortune of meeting.
 

Jetboogieman

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J.S. Mill, in that sentence, accurately describes every liberal / leftist / progressive / centrist / moderate I've ever had the misfortune of meeting.

Yeah you're right... no one who ever joined the US army was liberal... wow I never knew that.




You're one hateful guy you know that Web.
 

webrockk

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Yeah you're right... no one who ever joined the US army was liberal... wow I never knew that.




You're one hateful guy you know that Web.

Yes...Hateful. Pragmatism, logic, a hint of morals, and modicum of common sense requires, in my case, relinquishing aquaintence with, or negatively engaging intellectually dishonest losers, blatant liars, and thieves that don't have the courage to do their own stealing.
 
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Guy Incognito

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Yes...Hateful. Pragmatism, logic, a hint of morals, and modicum of common sense requires, in my case, relinquishing aquaintence with, or negatively engaging intellectually dishonest losers, blatant liars, and thieves that don't have the courage to do their own stealing.

Equating taxation with thievery is quite a stretch, and seems like it's just a thin way to dress up your self-confessed hate as righteous indignation. The reality is much more complicated than you make it out to be, and whether you agree with them or not, proponents of wealth-redistribution are not any more apt to be "dishonest losers and blatant liars" than anyone on the right wing. Intellectual honesty begins with understanding and fairly characterizing the opposing argument, even if you disagree with it, and not resorting to ad hominem attack.
 

ecofarm

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Some of the time, I suppose? There are definitely people who fall back onto an emotional crutch of patriotism when they're trying to justify their views or actions but can't do it any other way. So yes, I agree that "scoundrels" will often resort to trying to win an argument by waving a flag.


Flag-waving would be nationalism. Patriotism is about understanding values and ideals, it's not about geographically arbitrary bigotry. A patriot does not wrap themself in the flag or wave it before their platform. It's not an object to use as a human shield like some Muslim radical using their child. A patriot knows the flag belongs behind them.

I would not be surprised if the OP doesn't understand the difference.
 

MXracer169

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im confused by the icon with the person throwing the National Socialist parties symbol away... does that mean you dislike them for the evil that came with the National Socialists or are you protesting socialism (to the person who created this thread).
 

Arch Enemy

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If not Patriotism, then it's religion, or socio-economic positions, or favorite sports team; patriotism just replaces any other rope that binds people together. This is not arguable.

What is arguable is whether or not these ropes are necessary, or even if they're avoidable. Emma is bound to other anarchists because of their common attitude against Statism and social disgrace.
 

cpwill

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Yeah, that was weird.
All the sudden, supporting the President is considered "subversive" and "un-American".
Vilifying the President is considered every red-blooded American's patriotic duty.

Sure is a turnaround from the way things were three years ago.

:shrug: most conservatives don't have a problem with people supporting the President, as long as they don't use violence or intimidation to do it (like, for example, SEIU / ACORN organizations). However, many of the Presidents' supporters appear to feel either confused or threatened with the strong turn against his policies (others, perhaps less scrupulous, merely seek to delegitimize opposition); and hence the accusations fly. I didn't think I would ever witness leaders of either party become stupid enough to directly attack the American People, but :shrug: now we know what they really think of us.
 

FinnMacCool

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im confused by the icon with the person throwing the National Socialist parties symbol away... does that mean you dislike them for the evil that came with the National Socialists or are you protesting socialism (to the person who created this thread).

It's an anti-nazi symbol. It just means that national socialist/fascist rhetoric should be thrown in the garbage where it belongs ;)
 

deltabtry

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Nothing like looking a gift horse in the mouth.
 
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