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Osama bin Laden's Death: Wheres The Proof?

Poletopole

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President Obama says we got bin Laden. I have a question for the president: Mr. President, can you prove the United States Government killed Osama bin Laden? Since no proof of any kind has ever been put forward that the United States Government killed bin Laden, I would say that now would be a good time for you to clear up this matter by presenting the proof, that surely you have, as you wouldn't want to be saying that the government killed bin Laden without such proof, so please Mr. President, go on national television and present this proof. So by presenting such proof, Mr. President, we can be completely satisfied that bin Laden is dead, and not by natural causes. But just in case you do not have such proof, you might want to ask those who were given the task of killing bin Laden why they did not present such proof to you, Mr. President. I mean, surely that would be one of the most important duties of those given the task of killing Osama bin Laden would be to present to the President of the United States of America such proof that they "got" bin Laden. Also the rest of the world, I'm sure, would like to see such proof, after all we Americans would not want to appear to do things "half baked" as the saying goes, by not proving that we "got" bin Laden. It is really not good enough, now is it, just to come back and say "we got'em", now surely we can do better than that, I mean, such a highly organized forces as these men who were sent there to kill bin Laden would be capable of getting the evidence to prove that they got bin Laden, instead of presenting a fake photo of the so-called dead bin Laden, and then say they have the photos, but think they will burn them! For crying out loud, who knows, maybe this evil person is still out there plotting all kinds of mayhem against the United States people, we the American people need to know! So thank you, thank you, Mr. President for gathering to gather all this proof you need to present to the American people that indeed the U.S. Government really really did kill Osama bin Laden, and you Mr. President of this great country, surely will.
 

Tigerace117

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President Obama says we got bin Laden. I have a question for the president: Mr. President, can you prove the United States Government killed Osama bin Laden? Since no proof of any kind has ever been put forward that the United States Government killed bin Laden, I would say that now would be a good time for you to clear up this matter by presenting the proof, that surely you have, as you wouldn't want to be saying that the government killed bin Laden without such proof, so please Mr. President, go on national television and present this proof. So by presenting such proof, Mr. President, we can be completely satisfied that bin Laden is dead, and not by natural causes. But just in case you do not have such proof, you might want to ask those who were given the task of killing bin Laden why they did not present such proof to you, Mr. President. I mean, surely that would be one of the most important duties of those given the task of killing Osama bin Laden would be to present to the President of the United States of America such proof that they "got" bin Laden. Also the rest of the world, I'm sure, would like to see such proof, after all we Americans would not want to appear to do things "half baked" as the saying goes, by not proving that we "got" bin Laden. It is really not good enough, now is it, just to come back and say "we got'em", now surely we can do better than that, I mean, such a highly organized forces as these men who were sent there to kill bin Laden would be capable of getting the evidence to prove that they got bin Laden, instead of presenting a fake photo of the so-called dead bin Laden, and then say they have the photos, but think they will burn them! For crying out loud, who knows, maybe this evil person is still out there plotting all kinds of mayhem against the United States people, we the American people need to know! So thank you, thank you, Mr. President for gathering to gather all this proof you need to present to the American people that indeed the U.S. Government really really did kill Osama bin Laden, and you Mr. President of this great country, surely will.

Let's see.......there's the fact that the SEALS successfully launched a raid on the compound, killed Bin Laden and got out. There's the fact that AQ and the Taliban vowed to avenge his death, something they'd hardly do if he was still alive. After all, Bin Laden would have loved to gloat that the "infidels" tried to kill him and failed. There's the personal reports and documentation captured during the raid.

They didn't realease the photos taken of OBL after the fact because that would have sparked attacks on Americans abroad in Miidle Eastern countries. They are also graphic in nature. Being shot in the head tends to do that.

If your going to come up with a bull**** accusation, at least come up with a plausible bull**** accusation
 

shrubnose

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Let's see your proof that Osama bin Laden isn't dead.

:lol:

My guess is that you don't have any.
 

Bootlace

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What difference at this point does it make....err... Has it made?
 

Zyphlin

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Moderator's Warning:
moved to more appropriate location
 

jamesrage

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Let's see.......there's the fact that the SEALS successfully launched a raid on the compound, killed Bin Laden and got out. There's the fact that AQ and the Taliban vowed to avenge his death, something they'd hardly do if he was still alive. After all, Bin Laden would have loved to gloat that the "infidels" tried to kill him and failed. There's the personal reports and documentation captured during the raid.

That is no evidence OBL was killed by the SEALs.No body, no video nor are there any photos. They say so they did it and we are supposed to take their word for it? I got a bridge and some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you if you take the word of anyone with out any physical evidence.

They didn't realease the photos taken of OBL after the fact because that would have sparked attacks on Americans abroad in Miidle Eastern countries. They are also graphic in nature. Being shot in the head tends to do that.

The graphic nature of photos never stopped anyone from releasing photos of dead terrorists before and the "it would incite other terrorist if we had evidence" sounds like a crock of ****. When Saddam was executed we got a video, When his sons were killed we got photos and its practically been the same with every other high profile terrorist. Plus the "we don't want to prove we killed OBL because it would incite other terrorists" is contradicted by your claim that AQ and the Taliban vowed revenge, meaning they would act either way.

If your going to come up with a bull**** accusation, at least come up with a plausible bull**** accusation

What is bull **** is the fact there is not video or photographic evidence of OBL's death and we are supposed to take the word of a government that in known for constantly lying.
 

Tigerace117

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That is no evidence OBL was killed by the SEALs.No body, no video nor are there any photos. They say so they did it and we are supposed to take their word for it? I got a bridge and some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you if you take the word of anyone with out any physical evidence.



The graphic nature of photos never stopped anyone from releasing photos of dead terrorists before and the "it would incite other terrorist if we had evidence" sounds like a crock of ****. When Saddam was executed we got a video, When his sons were killed we got photos and its practically been the same with every other high profile terrorist. Plus the "we don't want to prove we killed OBL because it would incite other terrorists" is contradicted by your claim that AQ and the Taliban vowed revenge, meaning they would act either way.



What is bull **** is the fact there is not video or photographic evidence of OBL's death and we are supposed to take the word of a government that in known for constantly lying.

Oh, of course. The SEALs should have paused in the middle of their mission to post their photos of Osama's destroyed face to the Internet. Or put it on YouTube. After all, it's not like they were on a top secret operation and Pakistani troops were racing towards the site or anything, right?

I suppose you don't believe Hitler died then, either.

There were pictures---they simply weren't released to the public. You don't like that? Tough ****.

The situation with Saddam and the other terrorists were different. It wasn't a commando raid that got Saddam---he'd already been captured. They didn't have to bug out. Just because you "got used" to have executions in glorious technicolor style doesn't mean that's the way it always is going to be.

It's immature to think otherwise.
 

jamesrage

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Oh, of course. The SEALs should have paused in the middle of their mission to post their photos of Osama's destroyed face to the Internet. Or put it on YouTube. After all, it's not like they were on a top secret operation and Pakistani troops were racing towards the site or anything, right?

I suppose you don't believe Hitler died then, either.

There were pictures---they simply weren't released to the public. You don't like that? Tough ****.

The situation with Saddam and the other terrorists were different. It wasn't a commando raid that got Saddam---he'd already been captured. They didn't have to bug out. Just because you "got used" to have executions in glorious technicolor style doesn't mean that's the way it always is going to be.

It's immature to think otherwise.

Didn't they claim to give OBL a burial at sea? So the whole time constraint issue is non issue,
 

Mark F

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President Obama says we got bin Laden. I have a question for the president: Mr. President, can you prove the United States Government killed Osama bin Laden? Since no proof of any kind has ever been put forward that the United States Government killed bin Laden, I would say that now would be a good time for you to clear up this matter by presenting the proof, that surely you have, as you wouldn't want to be saying that the government killed bin Laden without such proof, so please Mr. President, go on national television and present this proof. So by presenting such proof, Mr. President, we can be completely satisfied that bin Laden is dead, and not by natural causes. But just in case you do not have such proof, you might want to ask those who were given the task of killing bin Laden why they did not present such proof to you, Mr. President. I mean, surely that would be one of the most important duties of those given the task of killing Osama bin Laden would be to present to the President of the United States of America such proof that they "got" bin Laden. Also the rest of the world, I'm sure, would like to see such proof, after all we Americans would not want to appear to do things "half baked" as the saying goes, by not proving that we "got" bin Laden. It is really not good enough, now is it, just to come back and say "we got'em", now surely we can do better than that, I mean, such a highly organized forces as these men who were sent there to kill bin Laden would be capable of getting the evidence to prove that they got bin Laden, instead of presenting a fake photo of the so-called dead bin Laden, and then say they have the photos, but think they will burn them! For crying out loud, who knows, maybe this evil person is still out there plotting all kinds of mayhem against the United States people, we the American people need to know! So thank you, thank you, Mr. President for gathering to gather all this proof you need to present to the American people that indeed the U.S. Government really really did kill Osama bin Laden, and you Mr. President of this great country, surely will.

If you want to ask the President you are in the wrong place.
 

Tigerace117

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Didn't they claim to give OBL a burial at sea? So the whole time constraint issue is non issue,

Yes, they did give him a burial at sea. The time constraint still exists, however. Not to mention that you might want to look at pictures of a guy who got shot in the head over breakfast or a meal in general, but most people don't.
 

jamesrage

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Yes, they did give him a burial at sea. The time constraint still exists, however.

If they had time to pack his body up, put him on a boat/ship and dump him out in sea then they most definitely had plenty of time to take pictures and video. Cameras are no longer bulky,cumbersome and and a pain in the ass to use.Heck a lot of cell phones have the ability to take video and still images.


Not to mention that you might want to look at pictures of a guy who got shot in the head over breakfast or a meal in general, but most people don't.
Again seeing how Saddam's hanging was released,so were the morgue photos of Saddam's sons as well as the photos of every other dead terrorist the issue of a photo being too gruesome is irrelevant. If you were on a jury and someone said they saw so and so kill someone and there is no body and no video or photographic evidence, I do not think you would convict that person of murder.
 

faithful_servant

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I thought that everyone knew that OBL was still alive and that this was his retirement plan. Osama wanted out of the terrorism game so that he could retire someplace nice and quiet, with lots of pretty girls and no Navy Seals. We provided him with a plausible death and he agreed to stop releasing videos. The pics are all of a homeless guy they found frozen to death in Buffalo, NY that they were saving for just this moment...
 

Tigerace117

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If they had time to pack his body up, put him on a boat/ship and dump him out in sea then they most definitely had plenty of time to take pictures and video. Cameras are no longer bulky,cumbersome and and a pain in the ass to use.Heck a lot of cell phones have the ability to take video and still images.



Again seeing how Saddam's hanging was released,so were the morgue photos of Saddam's sons as well as the photos of every other dead terrorist the issue of a photo being too gruesome is irrelevant. If you were on a jury and someone said they saw so and so kill someone and there is no body and no video or photographic evidence, I do not think you would convict that person of murder.

So "every other" dead terrorist in the history of terrorism has had their morgue shots realeased?

More likely then not it was less "pack his body up and put it on a ship" then it was "drag the what was left of the corpse behind them through the dirt towards the plane then sorta toss it in a box, and then dump the box over the side of the ship."

Most SEALs also don't bring their cell phones with them on operations. It's slightly embarrassing when your phone ringing blows a covert approach to a target.

Nobody briefed me as to why the government decided to do what they did. The point is that there is zero proof that OBL survived
 

Thoreau72

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Let's see your proof that Osama bin Laden isn't dead.

:lol:

My guess is that you don't have any.

And as the OP has pointed out, the government cannot prove OBL was taken out at Abbottabad just like it cannot prove that a BUK missile took out MH17, just like William Jefferson Clinton could not prove he did not have sex with that woman.

Bin Laden died in December 2001. The Legend Of Abbottabad was contrived to distract the public and media from what Obama was doing with Manning.
 

zyzygy

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And as the OP has pointed out, the government cannot prove OBL was taken out at Abbottabad just like it cannot prove that a BUK missile took out MH17, just like William Jefferson Clinton could not prove he did not have sex with that woman.

Bin Laden died in December 2001. The Legend Of Abbottabad was contrived to distract the public and media from what Obama was doing with Manning.

Your opinion can be disregarded. Where is the proof?
 

Mark F

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And as the OP has pointed out, the government cannot prove OBL was taken out at Abbottabad just like it cannot prove that a BUK missile took out MH17, just like William Jefferson Clinton could not prove he did not have sex with that woman.

Bin Laden died in December 2001. The Legend Of Abbottabad was contrived to distract the public and media from what Obama was doing with Manning.

:lamo :lamo :lamo
 

soot

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What is bull **** is the fact there is not video or photographic evidence of OBL's death and we are supposed to take the word of a government that in known for constantly lying.

But would you believe it if the government released photo and/or video evidence, or would you insist that such evidence was "manufactured".

Not necessarially you personally, cuz maybe you believe everything our "constantly lying" government says as long as include props in their presentation.

But there are plenty of people out there who still insist that the moon landing was faked and that crashing jetliners in to the Twin Towers wasn't the cause of their collapse even though we have video evidence of both events.

Its really a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the government.

On the one hand they condemn our enemies for televising the execution of Western hostages/prisoners, and then on the other we expect them to televise the extrajudicial execution of our enemies?

But then, as you've said, we've released the evidence of other dead terrorists/enemies so if we're going to do wrong then why not do wrong consistently?

at the end of the day I'm left scratching my head as I try to figure out what difference it makes if the guy is even actually dead.

I mean that from a practical counter terror perspective, not an emotional revenge/closure for the 9/11 victims' families perspective.

I guess if the guy really is dead there's a certain deterrent effort in terms of our enemies knowing just how long our memory and our reach actually are, but when you're dealing with wanna-be martyrs is that actually a deterrent?

And if the guy is actually dead, don't they already know it?

It might be something that's questioned in Western civilian circles, but if your an Islamic jihadi the true disposition of bin Laden, whether he's alive or whether he's dead, has probably made its way to you through the grapevine.

I think all releasing evidence of his death would do is satisfy the curiosity of folks who are inclined to be satisfied with such evidence as the government provides, and do little or nothing to quell the conspiracy theories of those who are given to distrust and conspiracy.
 

Mark F

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There is a certain small subset of the population who are quite simply, beyond convincing. The reason for that is quite simple;

They are not logical thinkers.

In the normal process of rational, logical problem solving one gathers up all of the available information, then determines which of that information is true and which is not. The true information is then assessed to see if it is relevant, the relevant bits then being fitted together to form a hypothesis which can be modified as new relevant true facts are introduced.

Some folks just can't do that.

People who can not apply the processes of logic and reason tend to compensate by starting with the answer that best suits their ideology/belief/bias. Then they work the problem backwards looking for bits the fit, ignoring those that don't and often inventing what they need to fill in the gaps. When they engage in Just Asking Questions they invariably obsess over single anomalies they can not explain, usually removed from proper context (because they don't know how to put it into context), to which they then apply a false global generalization - if this one detail is wrong, the whole story falls apart. They can't process that bit and the 10 other bits that show the hypothesis is correct. It doesn't matter how much JAQ'ing off they do on the internet, because even if the questions are not loaded and rhetorical they lack the ability to properly process the information and arrive at the correct answer.

Because they work the problem backwards and rely on single anomalies removed from proper context they simply are unable to vet their own claims for quality, no matter how ridiculous or implausible they become.

One can not reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into.

The sad part is, they don't even realize they are doing it. That's the thing about blind spots - by definition you can't see them. They don't know they can't think and you can't explain to them they are not thinking.
 

Helix

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he's almost certainly dead. however, i'm tired of being fed the whole scary terrorist boogieman thing when i'm more likely to be killed by a car or a heart attack. my more pressing needs are a secure job, paved roads, and health care.
 

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If the govt released the "photos', the dna data, everything have regarding OBL death, would doubters accept the evidence?

imo, I doubt it.

So they will read VeternsToday, other authors who like to spin anything that is negative regarding the govt. Guess they believe SEAL Team 6 lied.
 

Poletopole

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I am not claiming that I killed Osama bin Laden, if I had you can bet by damned I would have the proof. The burden of proof lies with those who claim they killed Laden, and they have no proof, in fact they have done everything they could possibly do to cover up such proof, and reason is they don't have any! Just imagine if this was the police investigating a murder, they are reporting back to the chief: And the chief says "Did you get the pictures of the dead body?" "No we didn't sir." "What!" says the chief. "Well what about figerprints?" "We didn't any of them either." And the chief says "Well, you got the body, right?" "No, we thought it wasn't of any use, so we threw it in the river." And the chief of police says "You know that door you guys came in, I want you to go out of it and don't you ever come back!" No real police would ever conduct a situation like our illustrious SEALS did, they should be drummed out of the service!
 

Poletopole

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Well they say they buried OSBL at sea, they had this board all covered in canvas, and tied down, and dumped it at sea. Was the dead body of Osama bin Laden under the canvas, or no, no way to tell, right? You think I take the word of those traitors in Washington?
 
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