Newt Gingrich wants new House Un-American Activities Committee

[Frank Apisa]

While I'm not convinced that re-instituting the HUAC is a necessary (or even good) idea we do need to come to a general understanding that radical factions within the Islamist tradition have declared war on the world at large. We need to address this threat as we would any other war and that begins with the acknowledgement and understanding that terrorists associated with ISIS, al Quaeda, Boko Haram and other such groups are enemy combatants and not just run of the mill criminals.

Agree!

 

[Frank Apisa]

Term limits Baby!!! :mrgreen:

"Term limits" seems to me to be a way of saying, "As soon as a doctor becomes experienced in how to perform surgery, we ought stop him/her from being a surgeon and bring new doctors to do it."

Makes no sense to me.

 

[poweRob]

I would like to track down ISIS supporters/sympathizers/members. Wouldn't everyone?

And I like moist chocolate chip cookies but neither of us are actually addressing the OP now are we?

 

[faithful_servant]

"Term limits" seems to me to be a way of saying, "As soon as a doctor becomes experienced in how to perform surgery, we ought stop him/her from being a surgeon and bring new doctors to do it."

Makes no sense to me.

Except that in our situation we have a Dr. who's causing harm while operating so that he can get paid for another surgery to fix what he did and get a kick back from the scalpel supplier for using more scalpels.

 

[poweRob]

I remember someone saying something to the extent that those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

Was that Mr. Rodgers neighborhood?

 

[apdst]

Who all?

Please cite in ANY thread of this Forum where I have ever mentioned that the HUAC did "whatever McCarthy wanted?"

Now I provided not only support for my position, but a definition of McCarthyism in that post you just quoted. But in case you missed it, here is it again:



Back them it was "Communism." Today the cry is either "Radical Islamism," or more typically "Terrorism."

This is a problem I have in many areas of American politics; this penchant to label in order to stop thinking and instead elicit an immediate and negative emotional reaction.

You labeled the HUAC as, "McCarthyism". McCarthy was about 19 years old when the HUAC was created and even younger When the other committees of its kind were formed before it.

 

[apdst]

And I like moist chocolate chip cookies but neither of us are actually addressing the OP now are we?

I am.

 

[poweRob]

The commies and the fascists abolished political parties. How did that work out?

Not really. They just made it only one party.

 

[poweRob]

Thanks,

You saved me from having to reply.

But this post... er... you just... nevermind.

 

[cabse5]

I guess Newt is no longer in the running for Trump's VP...

 

[poweRob]

When discussing a new HUAC we are dealing with POLITICIANS here.

They seldom do things "correctly" because they are typically more interested in achieving notoriety in order to gain influence and get re-elected.

I know right? It's so hard to follow any pattern in such conservative ideology. 24/7 they tell us to hate government. Government is incompetent. Arm yourself to overthrow the government but then they turn around and say that we should all love and pledge fealty to a police-state government in damn near the same breath.

 

[poweRob]

Only a complete fool would believe that there was no espionage and subversion going on during the Cold War.

Both sides had moles in all levels of government, that is not in dispute.

Just as no one in their right minds would dispute that a very active terrorist threat faces the USA from various militant forces, including members of Islamist groups.

It is the TACTICS used by McCarthy that were a problem. Guilt by mere accusation leading to public exile. Think of convicted sex offenders and how they are treated in public today to get an idea of how an accused communist would be treated back in the 50's.

Politicians seldom make the best investigators. They have too many other goals and hidden agendas IMO to do a good job.

Trumbo. Good flick.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Except that in our situation we have a Dr. who's causing harm while operating so that he can get paid for another surgery to fix what he did and get a kick back from the scalpel supplier for using more scalpels.

I do not think they are causing harm.

I think that mentality is a result of Ronald Reagan convincing people that government is the problem.

Governing is HARD business...and not the kind of thing that can be handled with the simplistic solutions some of the governed seem to think should be in play.

In any case, handling governing requires experience...and term limits seems to me to be a simplistic solution.

I appreciate that you do not...and that is your right.

 

[Captain Adverse]

But this post... er... you just... nevermind.

I just did not want to reply to the member who responded:

Big deal - better than dying in a terrorist attack.

You can see I am a Libertarian, and love the old passionate quotes...especially the one attributed to my avatar.

 

[coyotedelmar]

The answer is yes. Abolish political parties.


All of America has moved to Iowa?

On a serious note I never thought we could be looking at a dimer future than Bush and then Obama. If this keeps up, the 2020 ticket will be Hitler or Manson.

Vote German-American Bild for Pres 2020: It can't get worse, right?

(learned about them from HOI3, a 1930s pro-nazi political party apparently so nutty even the real nazi party wanted nothing to do with them).

 

[RetiredUSN]

That's a double edge sword.

Today it is ISIS/ISIL.

Tomorrow? Some American based "patriotic" organization.

The day after? Anyone who opposes the Party line?

NO, we cannot allow a new McCarthyist witch-hunt. Guilt by innuendo.

All I am saying is that individual rights not be violated absent due process of law.

I agree......there should be some very strict ( restrictions) to prevent the witch hunts and gavernment pay back on the citizens.

 

[apdst]

Not really. They just made it only one party.

What do you think the abolishment of political parties would do?

 

[poweRob]

What do you think the abolishment of political parties would do?

Well first, I'm not for abolishing parties because I think that would be unconstitutional under first amendments right to peacefully assemble. I personally think there should be a lot of curbing of embedded party structure within our government though. I'd think you'd embrace party abolishment in this country because if you want to know what abolishing parties here would do just look at Nebraska and how red it is.

 

[apdst]

Well first, I'm not for abolishing parties because I think that would be unconstitutional under first amendments right to peacefully assemble. I personally think there should be a lot of curbing of embedded party structure within our government though. I'd think you'd embrace party abolishment in this country because if you want to know what abolishing parties here would do just look at Nebraska.

That's exactly right.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This election gets wackier by the day
Newt Gingrich wants new House Un-American Activities Committee - CNNPolitics.com

Well there are Gingrich supporters here, come out and tell us what you think of this?

LIAR.
We created HUAC to go after Communists, not Nazis. We were still doing business with Nazis, we were still entertaining rabid anti-semites and we were still turning away Jewish refugees in the late 1930's.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I thought Gingrich was a historian. HUAC wasn't created to sniff out Nazis, it was created to sniff out communists.

Historian? That's a laugh. He was such a great historian he was denied tenure. (LOL)
He's a LIAR, is what he is, a LIAR and a revisionist.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am not sure what I am surprised by more Newt saying what CNN is saying he is saying,
or that CNN is still in business.
Anyway I thought it might be worth while to look up the actual quotes, rather than the CNN filtered quotes.
Gingrich: Revive House Un-American Activities Committee | TheHill
"We originally created the House Un-American Activities Committee to go after the Nazis,
We passed several laws in 1938 and 1939 to go after the Nazis,
"We made it illegal to help the Nazis."
We are presently going to have to take similar steps here.
We’re going to take much tougher positions."

"We’re going to ultimately declare war on Islamic supremacists, and we’re going to say,
""If you pledge allegiance to [the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria],
you are a traitor and you’ve lost your citizenship.""
The quotes read a little different, He is referencing the original use of the
House Un-American Activities Committee, and saying we are going to have to take similar steps,
to the 1930's anti Nazi version of the committee.

The House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) was an investigative committee of the United States House of Representatives. The HUAC was created in 1938 to investigate alleged disloyalty and subversive activities on the part of private citizens, public employees, and those organizations suspected of having Communist ties.

Belief in revisionist versions of history which paint Nazis as somehow associated with liberalism, socialism or Communism only furthers ignorance. The Nazis were sworn enemies of the Communists, and they were fascists, despite their deceptive use of labels.

Revisionists will be EATEN.

 

[matchlight]

It is the TACTICS used by McCarthy that were a problem. Guilt by mere accusation leading to public exile.

You are again reciting a baseless charge against Joe McCarthy that has been parroted for sixty years now. I challenge you to identify a single person, with the possible exception of Gen. George Marshall, that McCarthy ever unfairly accused of anything. He and other Senators on his committees were trying to find out why a large number of people whose Communist connections or sympathies made them flagrant security risks were still holding federal jobs--often quite important ones--years after the unsavory facts about them had been learned. More than a few of these people were agents of Moscow working to fashion U.S. policies that advanced the interests of the USSR and Red China to the detriment of our own.

Think of convicted sex offenders and how they are treated in public today to get an idea of how an accused communist would be treated back in the 50's.

Again, I challenge you to name a single person Sen. McCarthy unfairly accused of being a Communist, Soviet agent, fellow traveler, sympathizer, or anything else of that sort. Stanton Evans' definitive book on McCarthy and his work in the Senate offers all sorts of evidence that Joe McCarthy, a former state court judge, regularly remained patient and civil with witnesses, in some cases letting them make prolonged propaganda tirades.

It was McCarthy himself who was continually the victim of the most underhanded, scurrilous attacks. The whole country should have been celebrating him as a brave patriot, but liars who were not fit to shine his shoes tried to ruin him, usually for partisan political reasons. They knew the facts he was bringing out threatened to expose the shameful dereliction regarding our security that had occurred during the Roosevelt and Truman administrations. During the war years and for some time afterwards, our enemies had not only been allowed to penetrate federal agencies on a vast scale, but to stay on and keep up their bad deeds for years after they should have been kicked out for good. In some cases, friends in high places--some of them fellow Communist agents--lied to cover for these disloyal people.

McCarthy's number-two lawyer, a young University of Virginia Law School graduate named Robert Kennedy, thought very highly of his integrity and other personal qualities, and so did his older brother Jack, then a Senator.

In quite a few cases, as the Venona cables and previously secret FBI files have proven, the people McCarthy and others suspected of subversion were even worse than he or anyone else knew at the time. Venona shows a number of them that McCarthy suspected were Soviet agents, their code names appearing right there in the cables.

Politicians seldom make the best investigators. They have too many other goals and hidden agendas IMO to do a good job.

Sen. McCarthy consistently got very valuable information from reliable sources--including the FBI. A good deal of what he suspected was based on secret FBI investigations whose results he managed to obtain. Do you also think the FBI did not have good investigators?

 

[Captain Adverse]

You are again reciting a baseless charge against Joe McCarthy that has been parroted for sixty years now. I challenge you to identify a single person, with the possible exception of Gen. George Marshall, that McCarthy ever unfairly accused of anything. He and other Senators on his committees were trying to find out why a large number of people whose Communist connections or sympathies made them flagrant security risks were still holding federal jobs--often quite important ones--years after the unsavory facts about them had been learned. More than a few of these people were agents of Moscow working to fashion U.S. policies that advanced the interests of the USSR and Red China to the detriment of our own.

Again, I challenge you to name a single person Sen. McCarthy unfairly accused of being a Communist, Soviet agent, fellow traveler, sympathizer, or anything else of that sort.

Owen Lattimore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Lattimore

Val Lorwin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_R._Lorwin

I suppose if I felt like digging I could find more. However, you only asked for one and by giving two I'm doubling the amount you requested. :coffeepap:

 

[JANFU]

You are again reciting a baseless charge against Joe McCarthy that has been parroted for sixty years now. I challenge you to identify a single person, with the possible exception of Gen. George Marshall, that McCarthy ever unfairly accused of anything. He and other Senators on his committees were trying to find out why a large number of people whose Communist connections or sympathies made them flagrant security risks were still holding federal jobs--often quite important ones--years after the unsavory facts about them had been learned. More than a few of these people were agents of Moscow working to fashion U.S. policies that advanced the interests of the USSR and Red China to the detriment of our own.



Again, I challenge you to name a single person Sen. McCarthy unfairly accused of being a Communist, Soviet agent, fellow traveler, sympathizer, or anything else of that sort. Stanton Evans' definitive book on McCarthy and his work in the Senate offers all sorts of evidence that Joe McCarthy regularly remained patient and civil with witnesses, in some cases letting them make prolonged propaganda tirades without cutting them off. His number-two lawyer, a young University of Virginia Law School graduate named Robert Kennedy, thought very highly of Joe McCarthy's character and personal consideration, and so did his older brother Jack, then a Senator.

In quite a few cases, as the Venona cables and previously secret FBI files have proven, the people McCarthy and others suspected of subversion were even worse than he or anyone else knew at the time. Venona shows a number of them that McCarthy suspected were Soviet agents, their code names appearing right there in the cables.



Sen. McCarthy consistently got very valuable information from reliable sources--including the FBI. A good deal of what he suspected was based on secret FBI investigations whose results he managed to obtain. Do you also think the FBI did not have good investigators?

What about his various claims (various numbers, names never provided) of communists in the State dept?