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Netanyahu draws a "red line" on Iranian nukes

A war with Iran will not involve ground troops in any meaningful way, beyond commando raids and insertion teams for target acquisition and intelligence gathering, and MAYBE a landing or two at port facilities like Bandar Abbas to destroy installations. Barring some fantastical Iranian ground offensive against Iraq, or if Iran develops the capacity to catapult soldiers across the Persian Gulf it will likely never occur.
 
Well, I wish Israel good luck and a positive result. I hope not too many civilians will die on either side. I'd like to think the US will stay out of it other than re-supplying aramaments.

I think the US rhetoric points towards a different path,

"He added that he was confident the US and Israel could chart a common path on the issue.

On Tuesday, in his own address to the General Assembly, US President Barack Obama stressed the US would "do what we must" to stop Tehran acquiring nuclear arms."


BBC News - Israel's Netanyahu urges 'red line' over nuclear Iran

Paul
 
I support Netenyahu doing this, Iran needs to realize that they invite war if they continue on their course. We cannot wait until Iran has nuclear weapons before trying to stop them by military force.
Considering that Iranian weapons probably wouldn't have adverse consequences on the world, this alarmist attitude is out of place.
 
Considering that Iranian weapons probably wouldn't have adverse consequences on the world, this alarmist attitude is out of place.

They are a theocracy and have repeatedly made threats against Israel. I think there is much competition between Saudi Arabia and Iran as far as being the large oil rich nation that holds power in the region. A nuclear Iran would unbalance this power and cause strains with other nations besides Israel. Regardless, any nation that has spouted the rhetoric that Iran has in regards to Israel should not be allowed to violate nuclear weapons treaties and obtain them.
 
They are a theocracy and have repeatedly made threats against Israel. I think there is much competition between Saudi Arabia and Iran as far as being the large oil rich nation that holds power in the region. A nuclear Iran would unbalance this power and cause strains with other nations besides Israel. Regardless, any nation that has spouted the rhetoric that Iran has in regards to Israel should not be allowed to violate nuclear weapons treaties and obtain them.
1. Nations make threats all the time. A responsible government discerns which threats are credible and which threats are not or else it overextends its resources and ends up broke and less secure for no reason all in the name of good intentions. What evidence do you have the Iran's threats are credible?

2. The history of nuclear weapons actually shows that a nuclear Iran would be more likely to stabilize the Middle East.
 
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Who are his target audience, with his cartoon bomb and the amateur red line?
 
What facts/research do you have to support your disagreement?

I believe we already hashed this out, but I'll post from the other thread.

1. Certainly Iran has 'rational' reasons for seeking a nuclear weapon, that doesn't mean they should have them. I think an absolutely massive facet of this many overlook is the way in which nuclear weapons would shift the strategic calculus in the region, particularly from Iran's perspective. My point, and the point that many have made, is that a nuclear Iran obviates Iranian fears of regime change and significantly reduces their concern over a conventional strike on their territory.

As a result of this new-found security Iran would be able to more aggressively pursue its regional objectives, which revolve around regional hegemony. It's ability to project proxy forces would aggressively increase on critical fronts including Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Palestinian territories. Furthermore its ability to use its nuclear capability as a buffer would significantly increase their propensity for launching limited conventional attacks at Gulf targets, or along its periphery in reaction to geopolitical tensions. The underground battle for Iraq being waged by Iranian and Gulf (primarily Saudi) agents, donors, and proxies could become overt. So many things could happen, and we can pretty clearly see many of the ones that would happen, it would be a terrible thing to allow to occur.

2. In what way is it not reflective of historical evidence or contemporary political behavior on the part of the Islamic Republic? In terms of nuclear weapons providing strategic invulnerability which leads to more aggressive proxy behavior, as well as skirting the conventional edge one need only look to the US and USSR, and in the modern day Pakistan and North Korea. While Iran today has made it a clear point of its foreign policy to extend its influence as aggressively as possible, and Iranian commentators and policy analysts consistently reflect upon the need for Iran to regain its place in the sun and to lead the anti-US anti-Saudi axis in the region which would eventually be in the ascendancy in their vision.

Plainly speaking, of course they desire regional hegemony but have been limited and relatively restrained in their ability to act. Why? Because they fear both conventional and asymmetric counter stroke. Why aren't they, and why didn't they pump guns and agents to the Houthi in Yemen? Why have they been so placid with regards to the Shia demonstrations and clashes in the Eastern Province and in Bahrain? Why have they been so keen to keep a tamp on Hezbollah and to limit their arms flow to Hamas? It goes on, and on. Because they fear tipping the scales too far and incurring an American or Gulf led counter stroke. Either conventionally, or through the arming of paramilitaries in Iran, or direct action against Iranian proxies.

With that fear obviated by nuclear security Iran would be much more aggressive, and much more capable and unconstrained to use its 'deadly swam of mosquito forces' in all forms. They could surge weapons to Hezbollah and see them used on Israel or the Lebanese government with impunity, knowing retaliation against them will be tremendously limited. They can send military formations to Iraq without fear of the spillover crossing back into Iran. They can arm the Shia in the Eastern Province with explosives, and send weapons and IRGC agents to Yemen, why? Because the ability to act against them has been more or less taken off the table.

3. I'm not sure how you think nations with nuclear weapons behave, but the prevailing doctrine in both academic and strategic literature and policy analysis is a litany of references to the strategic implications of a nuclear weapon state and how such capability augments the capacity of a country to behave assertively and forcefully within its periphery and abroad. The most highly cited example in history is that of the US and USSR for obvious reasons. Moreover there are plenty of contemporary or near past examples to examine. I'm not sure what you are getting at. This is not a discussion of MAD, that is a separate issue and a valid one.

Furthermore you have missed my point. I'm not saying Iran would pass along chemical weapons to Hezbollah, that probably would cross a redline even if the state had nuclear weapons and would incite a like minded retaliation. The issue is that Iran has consistently, since the 1979 revolution, sought regional hegemony with a religious-nationalist tint. In pursuit of this it has incited and attempted to foment rebellions in Saudi Arabia and along the Gulf littoral, it has battled for control over the future of Iraq in the hopes of winning another firm ally, extended ties to the Houthi rebels of Northern Yemen as a possible conduit for Iranian power to upset Saudi power in Yemen and Najran and Asir, it has pursued the creation of strong proxies in Lebanon to balance against Israel and to assist in the cementing of power with Syria, and of course it has funneled weapons and aid to Hamas as a means to counterbalance the GCC backed Palestinian Authority, etc etc.

A nuclear weapon would significantly reduce Iran's reasons for limited its assistance to these groups and in restraining its activities abroad. Why? Because a nuclear option no matter how weak massively reduces the prospect that a Western or Gulf coalition will strike back at you. It adds a tremendous layer of doubt to every possible conventional or unconventional encounter.

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From our prior discussion.
 

1992: Israeli member of parliament Binyamin Netanyahu predicts that Iran was “3 to 5 years” from having a nuclear weapon.

1992: Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres predicts an Iranian nuclear warhead by 1999 to French TV.

1995: The New York Times quotes US and Israeli officials saying that Iran would have the bomb by 2000.

1998: Donald Rumsfeld tells Congress that Iran could have an intercontinental ballistic missile that could hit the US by 2003.

Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb | Informed Comment Bibi isnt exactly qualified to judge whether said lines have been passed, either as a credible source of information or as a just enforcer of the non-proliferation treaty.
 
Netanyahu in 1992: Iran close to having nuclear bomb | Informed Comment Bibi isnt exactly qualified to judge whether said lines have been passed, either as a credible source of information or as a just enforcer of the non-proliferation treaty.

Which is why we are tying this to things we know for a fact have occurred and lines that we know have been crossed. We know that reactor grade Uranium requires 2-4% enrichment. We also know Iran has enriched to 20%, with particulate at 27% or higher. We know that Iran has massively increased the number of centrifuges it has. We know that it has opened covert enrichment facilities. We know that it has retained more than 100kg of enriched U-238 capable of being enriched at a later date into enough U-235 for a uranium bomb. Etc, etc.
 
Which is why we are tying this to things we know for a fact have occurred and lines that we know have been crossed. We know that reactor grade Uranium requires 2-4% enrichment. We also know Iran has enriched to 20%, with particulate at 27% or higher. We know that Iran has massively increased the number of centrifuges it has. We know that it has opened covert enrichment facilities. We know that it has retained more than 100kg of enriched U-238 capable of being enriched at a later date into enough U-235 for a uranium bomb. Etc, etc.

If my enrichment facilities were likely to be bombed I would make them covert also, the Israelis certainly were not shy about doing so in Iraq and Syria. Still I certainly wouldnt rule out the possibility that they are up to something (perhaps hedging their bets in case the NPT falls apart) but we are still left with the absurdity of Israel acting as the enforcer.
 
If my enrichment facilities were likely to be bombed I would make them covert also, the Israelis certainly were not shy about doing so in Iraq and Syria. Still I certainly wouldnt rule out the possibility that they are up to something (perhaps hedging their bets in case the NPT falls apart) but we are still left with the absurdity of Israel acting as the enforcer.

Well, the enriching to 20% part is an established fact with the West, the IAEA, and Iran confirming it. Iran merely claims it is for medical research, though what advanced nuclear medical research Iran is conducting is beyond me or anyone else for that matter. There has also been increasing concern at the continued stockpile of enriched U-238, and the expansion of enrichment facilities that as yet have no real discernible purpose as far as power is concerned.
 
Obama and Romney agree, the Iranian regime must not be allowed to get nukes. It's too bad they don't spend more time discussing the implications of such for the Iranian people.
 
I heard enough rhetorics from all three sides but nobody seems to want to walk the talk.
 
Well, the enriching to 20% part is an established fact with the West, the IAEA, and Iran confirming it. Iran merely claims it is for medical research, though what advanced nuclear medical research Iran is conducting is beyond me or anyone else for that matter. There has also been increasing concern at the continued stockpile of enriched U-238, and the expansion of enrichment facilities that as yet have no real discernible purpose as far as power is concerned.

Hence the nuclear hedging theory..
 
In contrast to the USA, Iran did not nuke two cities. So what is American authority to "allow" nukes or not?
What the both ludicrous puppets agree to and say is negligible.
 
In contrast to the USA, Iran did not nuke two cities. So what is American authority to "allow" nukes or not?
What the both ludicrous puppets agree to and say is negligible.

America is a free country, Iran is not.
 
America is a free country, Iran is not.
Iran is a free country. It is not dependent on Israel´s will und its politicians do not get killed by the Jooz

The Israeli Occupation of America: How Israel Gained Control of American Foreign Policy and Public Opinion


The Israeli Occupation of America: How Israel Gained Control of American Foreign Policy and Public Opinion


”Israel need not apologize for the assassination or destruction of those who seek to destroy it. The first order of business for any country is the protection of its people.”Washington Jewish Week, October 9, 1997

...snip...
The Israeli Occupation of America: How Israel Gained Control of American Foreign Policy and Public Opinion « heshamtillawi
 
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Reminds me of the financial crisis. Joos caused it.
 
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