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N. Korea vs. The Rest of the World

cpwill

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You put the inevitable in simple terms. One thing that has to mentioned is that NK artillery has a range that reaches to the Seoul Metropolitan Area. That area is populated by more than 20 million people, which is about 40% of South Korea's 50 million people.

yeah, but you can't assume even a majority of those people being dead unless you assume a large number of WMD strikes get through.... which I would put down as a "possible but really unlikely". Citizens of Seoul know where to go, have gas masks, and so forth - what we found in WWII was that bombardment was really good at messing up above-ground buildings, but only occasionally effective at wiping out populaces. USFK and ROK counterbattery will be able to effectively degrade/destroy DPRK LRA positions once they are known, which means really we have to get Seoul through the first 48-72 hours or so. I mean, we know where all this stuff is... it's just that there is so damn much of it.



It would be ugly. It would be really ugly. We would absolutely 100% win. But it would be ugly. Far better to let them collapse internally.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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I have been hearing for years that South Korea has been considering moving it's capital further south... is there anything to that?

Yes. Former late president Roh-Muh-Hyun wanted to move the capital further south. It would be in a province called Chungcheongnam-do near a major city called Daejeon.
There were several reasons for this:
1)The whole country was centralized on Seoul. Most of the economy is based there or around there. The world-famous Incheon airport (voted the best airport in the world for more than 5 consecutive years) is in Incheon, a city that is in the Seoul Metropolitan Area. 40% of the population is there. The best universities, everything is there. As a result of this over-cenralization, Roh-Muh-Hyun wanted to move it there
2)Of course, the NK danger
3)There were rumors that Chungcheongnam-do was chosen because Roh-Muh-Hyun was politically weak there, so the reason why it was planned to be placed there pointed to his desire to gather votes from there.

However, not only because of the plan's very difficult, there were also fierce opposition. In the end, Sejong City was built, but not as the capital of SK. Only as an information, tech, science city.

More info to be found here: Sejong City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS: The name Sejong refers to the great Korean King Sejong the Great, who invented the Korean language and left many great achievements.
 

ludahai

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Yes. Former late president Roh-Muh-Hyun wanted to move the capital further south. It would be in a province called Chungcheongnam-do near a major city called Daejeon.
There were several reasons for this:
1)The whole country was centralized on Seoul. Most of the economy is based there or around there. The world-famous Incheon airport (voted the best airport in the world for more than 5 consecutive years) is in Incheon, a city that is in the Seoul Metropolitan Area. 40% of the population is there. The best universities, everything is there. As a result of this over-cenralization, Roh-Muh-Hyun wanted to move it there
2)Of course, the NK danger
3)There were rumors that Chungcheongnam-do was chosen because Roh-Muh-Hyun was politically weak there, so the reason why it was planned to be placed there pointed to his desire to gather votes from there.

However, not only because of the plan's very difficult, there were also fierce opposition. In the end, Sejong City was built, but not as the capital of SK. Only as an information, tech, science city.

More info to be found here: Sejong City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS: The name Sejong refers to the great Korean King Sejong the Great, who invented the Korean language and left many great achievements.

Thanks... and I think you mean he invented the Korean script Hangul -- the Korean language long predated that and used Chinese characters...
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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Thanks... and I think you mean he invented the Korean script Hangul -- the Korean language long predated that and used Chinese characters...

Yep. That's what I meant. Aside from inventing Hangul (an astonishing language that has been voted as the most scientific language in the world many times), he made many incredible advances in literature, technology, and science, as a result, these fields flourished under his rule. He's the one of two kings to have been honored with the title "the Great" in Korean history, the other was Gwanggaeto the Great, who made the kingdom Goguryeo the major power of East Asia during his reign.
More info: Gwanggaeto the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sejong the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

ludahai

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Yep. That's what I meant. Aside from inventing Hangul (an astonishing language that has been voted as the most scientific language in the world many times), he made many incredible advances in literature, technology, and science, as a result, these fields flourished under his rule. He's the one of two kings to have been honored with the title "the Great" in Korean history, the other was Gwanggaeto the Great, who made the kingdom Goguryeo the major power of East Asia during his reign.
More info: Gwanggaeto the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sejong the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, I totally agree about he being perhaps the greatest ruler in Korean history... you don't need to convince me of it... he is to Korea what Elizabeth I was to England...
 

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I'd have to say North Korea is more of a danger to itself than to the rest of the world.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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Doesn't it have the 4th largest army in the world?

More than 1.1 million troops in a country with a population of 24 million. That's why it's the most militarized state in the world.
However, numbers shouldn't be confused with quality. Most of its weapons, even the new Pokpungho tank are outdated, some as old as to the WWII-era. Its best tank, the Pokpungho is the NK version of the T-72, a Cold War-era tank.
The SK army number around 550000. The SK has a very advanced military, with weapons like the K2 Black Panther, the K9 self-propelled howitzer, the K21, and the Daewoo K11 infantry rifle.
The SK army is outnumbered 2:1, but the NK army is outdated at least 25:1. Guess who'll win
 

Arcadius

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Doesn't it have the 4th largest army in the world?

I was attempting to comment on the treatment of the North Korean people by the government, and the fact that they have made themselves the enemies of the world. Perhaps my words were poorly chosen. I am not trying to say the North Koreans are not a danger to the rest of the world. But based on the current state of the country,with the instability that's sure to be caused when Kim Jong-Il dies, and the fact that they've made themselves a global pariah, you start to see they really are their own worst enemy. They may have numbers, but they're military is extremely outdated and under-supplied, not to mention they would be facing the far superior South Korean military, which would most likely be backed up by American military might, you see that any offensive action by North Korea would be suicide. As I said, North Korea is more of a threat to itself than the rest of the world, it doesn't mean they're harmless too the rest of the world, just more harmful to themselves. When you think about it, it's almost sad how inevitable North Korea's demise is. When North Korea falls (which it most certainly will) it will be by it's own hand, I assure you that.
 

MKULTRABOY

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I was attempting to comment on the treatment of the North Korean people by the government

So they established a state of abuse or starve for the sake of it, what do you mean?

and the fact that they have made themselves the enemies of the world.

More accurately capitalism.

I am not trying to say the North Koreans are not a danger to the rest of the world.

But based on the current state of the country,with the instability that's sure to be caused when Kim Jong-Il dies,

Possibly, were not privy to any sort of analysis of how it would actually affect NK.

They may have numbers, but they're military is extremely outdated and under-supplied, not to mention they would be facing the far superior South Korean military, which would most likely be backed up by American military might, you see that any offensive action by North Korea would be suicide.

The consequences of a war would be so unpredictable and dangerous it wouldnt be exactly safe for Skorea either. :shrug:

As I said, North Korea is more of a threat to itself than the rest of the world, it doesn't mean they're harmless too the rest of the world, just more harmful to themselves. When you think about it, it's almost sad how inevitable North Korea's demise is. When North Korea falls (which it most certainly will) it will be by it's own hand, I assure you that.

It doesnt add up to me like that. NK can probably hang around for the long haul, they could do with some sortof slight liberalisation or re-regulation in some sense, but there are no cataclysmic signs as of yet.
 

cpwill

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So they established a state of abuse or starve for the sake of it, what do you mean?

no, they have established a state of actual communism. that is why they starve; as the Chinese did before them, as the Russians did before them.

More accurately capitalism.

:shrug: they like to claim so. though whenever someone says "i'm against capitalism", what I hear is "i'm against freedom". and they are that as well.

Possibly, were not privy to any sort of analysis of how it would actually affect NK.

depends. Korean Leadership Watch has done a pretty good job of tracking the ongoing purges of the Kim regime as they get ready to transfer, though I haven't kept track with them - i read the KPA Journal.

The consequences of a war would be so unpredictable and dangerous it wouldnt be exactly safe for Skorea either.

it's not terribly unpredictable in it's broad scope, but we can predict with a fair amount of certainty that it would initially be quite dangerous indeed for a significant portion of the population.

It doesnt add up to me like that. NK can probably hang around for the long haul, they could do with some sortof slight liberalisation or re-regulation in some sense, but there are no cataclysmic signs as of yet.

i don't think so. a little liberalization of that regime would go a long way towards destroying it. the cult of personality that the regime depends on is amazing (kim jung il can, according to state newspapers, control the weather with his emotions, and has recently mastered teleportation). they will "hang around" for as long as SKorea and the rest of us continue to prop up their failed economic system with shipments of food and the like.
 
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cpwill said:
no, they have established a state of actual communism. that is why they starve; as the Chinese did before them, as the Russians did before them.

Communist states don't exist.

they like to claim so. though whenever someone says "i'm against capitalism", what I hear is "i'm against freedom". and they are that as well.

I'm willing to say that I'm against freedom, sure, against the freedom of capitalists to exploit workers. You, on the other hand, are against the freedom of workers to fully realize the fruits of their labor by supporting expropriation of the surplus.

Freedom doesn't mean anything out of context.

i don't think so. a little liberalization of that regime would go a long way towards destroying it. the cult of personality that the regime depends on is amazing (kim jung il can, according to state newspapers, control the weather with his emotions, and has recently mastered teleportation). they will "hang around" for as long as SKorea and the rest of us continue to prop up their failed economic system with shipments of food and the like.

This kind of stuff doesn't really have nearly as much impact as you are here proclaiming. Studies have been done on the complete and utter failure of projects such as Radio Free Europe regarding the collapse of dictatorships.
 

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While I am DEFINATELY not a fan of North Korea (Or any nation who's population wants to kill my homeland), the last thing the US needs to do is get into ANOTHER war when we Just finished one(Iraq), about to finish one(Afghanistan), and are fighting on three more campaigns for the UN (Syria, Lybia, Yemen)
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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While I am DEFINATELY not a fan of North Korea (Or any nation who's population wants to kill my homeland), the last thing the US needs to do is get into ANOTHER war when we Just finished one(Iraq), about to finish one(Afghanistan), and are fighting on three more campaigns for the UN (Syria, Lybia, Yemen)

The US is not in a war with NK. Nor do anybody support a war with NK (except Mr. Stalin who commented on page 28).
 

Krasche

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The US is not in a war with NK. Nor do anybody support a war with NK (except Mr. Stalin who commented on page 28).

If you want to get technical, we actually still are. Peace talks never happened, the war is technically in a ceasefire... for the last 50 years... the war was never TECHNICALLY ended.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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If you want to get technical, we actually still are. Peace talks never happened, the war is technically in a ceasefire... for the last 50 years... the war was never TECHNICALLY ended.

I know, and there has been incidents, attacks, and skirmishes but never full-out war, which nobody, not even Kim-Jong-Il wants
 

Krasche

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I know, and there has been incidents, attacks, and skirmishes but never full-out war, which nobody, not even Kim-Jong-Il wants

Well yea. He can't even afford to feed his people idk what makes him think WAR is a good idea. Especially against a nation that's 10 years ahead in military technology than even the second most advanced. We could bomb Pyongyang and he wouldn't even know it til it happened.
 

LaughAtTheWorld

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Well yea. He can't even afford to feed his people idk what makes him think WAR is a good idea. Especially against a nation that's 10 years ahead in military technology than even the second most advanced. We could bomb Pyongyang and he wouldn't even know it til it happened.

More like 30-40 years. After all, they use Cold War-era ad WWII-ear weapons.
 
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