MaggieD
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Thousands of riot police clashed with teachers protesting at educational reforms, dispersing the crowd with water cannon and tear gas.Violent clashes took place to end the occupation of Mexico City's Zocalo Square, where furious teachers had set up a large protest camp for many weeks.
Police moved into the area minutes after a deadline set by the government for the teachers to leave the square.
Although many teachers had left following an eviction notice calling for the removal of their camp in time for Independence Day celebrations on Sunday 15 September, some hard-core protestors stayed on...
The teachers were angry at President Enrique Pena Nieto's reforms to introduce a universal evaluation which would change the way they are hired, evaluated and promoted.
Those who fail evaluations are could be dismissed.
Teachers have marched in the capital over 15 times in the last two months.
it seems to be a basic human belief that accountability is something that's meant for the other guy, not for yourself.
agreed...I've always struggled with getting employees to track their productivity. They absolutely despise it. Personally, I think it is necessary and that the argument against "teaching to the test" is bullcrap.
The tests should be designed broadly to include everything that may be taught in a particular subject, and should be graded in such a manner that students are compared on a percentile bases. Teachers don't really then have to teach to the test, they just need to teach the subject, and the results of their teaching and the students learning is reasonably accurately indicated by the results because if the test is scored on a percentile bases, all students are being compared to other students and not to some random standards.
Every time that a teacher complains about having to teach to the test, their argument always comes down to "the tests aren't good". the way I see it, then the issue isn't that we test, it's that we need better tests. But I bet if we had better tests, teachers would still complain. They just don't want it to be known which teachers and students are good, and which ones suck and should be fired (both the students and teachers).
it seems to be a basic human belief that accountability is something that's meant for the other guy, not for yourself.
How about learning styles vis-a-vis teaching styles? They don't always match. How about student to teacher ratios? Available support staff? Lack of parent involvement in the school? All those and a great deal more affect teacher effectiveness.
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How about learning styles vis-a-vis teaching styles? They don't always match. How about student to teacher ratios? Available support staff? Lack of parent involvement in the school? All those and a great deal more affect teacher effectiveness.
How about evaluating the teachers? Just because one has a college degree and teaching credentials does NOT mean one is a good teacher. While we in this country go out of our way to say how special and talented and dedicated teachers are? All one needs is a teaching certificate. Anybody can do it.
Try to evaluate teachers and they go bananas . . .
You want to actually evaluate us?? Damn you!!!
Mexican Riots: Riot Police Fire Tear Gas at Teacher Protest - IBTimes UK
I've always struggled with getting employees to track their productivity. They absolutely despise it. Personally, I think it is necessary and that the argument against "teaching to the test" is bullcrap. I've had employees to quit, telling me that they don't think that it is "fair" that I evaluate their performance or have standards.
The tests should be designed broadly to include everything that may be taught in a particular subject, and should be graded in such a manner that students are compared on a percentile bases. Doesn't matter what the absolute score is, I mean a 15% could be "passing" or average if the test was broad enough. What really matters to administrators is to compare how much improvement their students are making, and to track whether their students are below average, average, better than average, or super duper smart and motivated. As far as evaluating teachers, this is easy enough if the students are tested annually, so that the performance of each individual students test can be compared to the previous years test result. If the average change in test scores increases substantially, then apparently the teacher is doing a good job, if they stagnate, then I don't know that the teacher did anything, and if they drop there is obviously an issue that needs to be fixed.
Teachers don't really then have to teach to the test, they just need to teach the subject, and the results of their teaching and the students learning is reasonably accurately indicated by the results because if the test is scored on a percentile bases, all students are being compared to other students and not to some random standards.
Every time that a teacher complains about having to teach to the test, their argument always comes down to "the tests aren't good". the way I see it, then the issue isn't that we test, it's that we need better tests. But I bet if we had better tests, teachers would still complain. They just don't want it to be known which teachers and students are good, and which ones suck and should be fired (both the students and teachers).
I think it's more than that. Sure, teachers don't want hoop jumping, and some might complain no matter what, but the real issue is what you evaluating? The teacher can do everything right in an inner city troubled school district and still look worse than a teacher in a wealthy less troubled district when the measure is student achievement alone. Not only does this too often present an inaccurate picture, but t tells us little if what the teacher is doing.
In any job it helps to have evaluations, but it helps to have them by people who know the job. Too often, people who don't understand the job are evaluating.
Recognizing this and other problems we currently have is not being opposed to accountability. I'm not. But I do think it is fair to use multiple measures, and to use measures that actually tell us something.
thats a problem, but in our state they have largely fixed that issue. School performance is compared on a "schools like ours" bases, based upon demographics. So a school with 80% of the student body under the poverty level only gets directly compared to other schools with a high poverty rate, and schools with low poverty rates get compared to other schools with poverty rates. They also compare schools based upon size.
thats a problem, but in our state they have largely fixed that issue. School performance is compared on a "schools like ours" bases, based upon demographics. So a school with 80% of the student body under the poverty level only gets directly compared to other schools with a high poverty rate, and schools with low poverty rates get compared to other schools with poverty rates. They also compare schools based upon size.
Interesting. How is that working out? Are the graduates of schools in high poverty rate areas leaving school with the educational skills needed to get a job and contribute to society?
The reason that I brought that up has nothing to do with whether schools are being successful, but because someone else brought up issues with comparing teachers based upon test scores of students in schools that are much different. So teachers who teach at a school with a high poverty rate arent being evaluated with the expectation that their students test scores will be as high as the average, and so that teachers who teach in low poverty rate areas aren't necessarally given a huge pat on that back for being a great teacher, when it is to be expected that their students will have higher scores just due to demographics.
Anyhow, thats a good question, and I can't answer it because I don't know. But at least in theory, schools should be able to target their education programs more towards the types of jobs, and levels of jobs, that their students are most likely to accomplish. I would think that since realistically, kids in schools with high poverty levels are more likely to need vocational training than AP Calculus, high poverty level schools should emphasize vocational training more than schools in low poverty level areas.
Of course this doesn't help the outliers that much. Like Bernake graduated high school from one of the most impoverished areas in my state, then went on to earn a PhD and become the nations top economist (whether you agree with him or not), I believe they call that area the "I-95 corridor of shame".
Try to evaluate teachers and they go bananas . . .
You want to actually evaluate us?? Damn you!!!
Mexican Riots: Riot Police Fire Tear Gas at Teacher Protest - IBTimes UK
Interesting. How is that working out? Are the graduates of schools in high poverty rate areas leaving school with the educational skills needed to get a job and contribute to society?
How about evaluating the teachers? Just because one has a college degree and teaching credentials does NOT mean one is a good teacher. While we in this country go out of our way to say how special and talented and dedicated teachers are? All one needs is a teaching certificate. Anybody can do it.
I agree, Mags. Not everyone can teach. I couldn't.
If they make me King of Education tomorrow I will require all teachers to have a masters degree in education with an undergrad degree in or closely related to the subject area they will teach. The school system would subsidize additional degrees in subject areas. Teachers additionally certified in teaching English as a second language would receive a salary increase.
Teachers would paid a much better salaries than they now receive.
I disagree on the Master's in Education. Better, if one intends to teach, is a Master's in Biology with a minor in education so you can learn all about measurement and assessment, learning styles and Bloom's Taxonomy and "delayed success" (as opposed to the old-fashioned "failure"), and blah-blah-blah.
That is the real shame of it all. To keep graduation rates (self esteem?) up the K-12 education machine sets the bar ever lower - in the name of "fariness" for selected zip codes
agreed...
and I don't understand our preoccupation over the "big test" at the end of the year....it seems everything we do is geared towards it..... and then a lot of effort is expended trying to escape the consequences of the result.
I have no problem with evaluation. In fact I was annoyed that I was never observed last year. This year we have a new evaluation system that is supposed to include many observations. I haven't been observed yet which is quite frustrating. So, as I said, I have not problem with evaluation as long as it is valid. I expect to be evaluated on what I do and on the results that I can control and directly impact. I have no problem with part of that evaluation including test scores as long as they are use correctly.
As for you statement, "we in this country go out of our way to how special and talented and dedicated teachers are." That has not been my experience in the real world, on this forum, or even in this thread.
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