Sherman123
DP Veteran
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- Jul 5, 2012
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I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
But that's the thing Sherman. This guy went to prison because it was trickery, because it wasn't voluntary, because the woman did not give her consent to do this. There is a massive difference between doing something and knowing the consequences and doing it voluntarily and being tricked into something.
IMO he belongs in prison. In defense of abortion, people have said to me that killing a zef is just like killing cancer cells, or cutting of an infected limb. People have also compared the zef to a parasite sucking the life out it's host. With thinking like that you could almost say this guy did his girlfriend a favor. I get that he took her choice away. I'm just making the point if you view a zef as having little to no value then how can you justify throwing this guy in prison?
IMO he belongs in prison. In defense of abortion, people have said to me that killing a zef is just like killing cancer cells, or cutting of an infected limb. People have also compared the zef to a parasite sucking the life out it's host. With thinking like that you could almost say this guy did his girlfriend a favor. I get that he took her choice away. I'm just making the point if you view a zef as having little to no value then how can you justify throwing this guy in prison?
I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
Florida again...hmmm.. Well, doesn't the father have any rights? He would be financially responsible for this child for many, many years...and how much love did she have for this guy if she can send him off to prison for 13 years? It's a shame as his life is ruined forever now.. But he did make the choice....
I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
Actually he did not use the very same drugs a doctor would use.
Usually an antibiotic and two chemical abortion type drugs are used. The first stops the progesterone production. Progesterone is needed to continue a pregnancy.
By stopping the progesterone ( in lay mans terms ) the placenta starts to pull away from the wall. The second drug ...
The one the boyfriend gave her is taken a day later and it causes the cramping and with the loosened placenta the abortion is more like a heavy period with mild cramping.
Without the first medication the woman went into full premature labor which is not only very painful but since she was not given antibiotics it could have caused a life threatening infection.
I'll take your word for it as this isn't an area I'm remotely familiar with. However in my opinion this still evades the central ethical point. He was convicted and given a lengthy prison sentence on the basis that he had killed someone, a murder charge that carried a life sentence to be precise. To equate what he did to murder is unconscionable to me. As I said before I support access to abortion and oppose efforts to roll back the status quo. However we need to be consistent in how we define life and demarcate the realm of punishment.
Charge him with assault, charge him with reckless endangerment, or whatever else may be applicable. But murder? I can't see how that is justifiable. It cannot be a surgical procedure when voluntary and murder when involuntary in my book.
IMO he belongs in prison. In defense of abortion, people have said to me that killing a zef is just like killing cancer cells, or cutting of an infected limb. People have also compared the zef to a parasite sucking the life out it's host. With thinking like that you could almost say this guy did his girlfriend a favor. I get that he took her choice away. I'm just making the point if you view a zef as having little to no value then how can you justify throwing this guy in prison?
I'll take your word for it as this isn't an area I'm remotely familiar with. However in my opinion this still evades the central ethical point. He was convicted and given a lengthy prison sentence on the basis that he had killed someone, a murder charge that carried a life sentence to be precise. To equate what he did to murder is unconscionable to me. As I said before I support access to abortion and oppose efforts to roll back the status quo. However we need to be consistent in how we define life and demarcate the realm of punishment.
Charge him with assault, charge him with reckless endangerment, or whatever else may be applicable. But murder? I can't see how that is justifiable. It cannot be a surgical procedure when voluntary and murder when involuntary in my book.
This was a premeditated murder. Thirteen years is not an adequate sentence.
1. You are right to point out that it is unfair that for one parent to kill their kid, it is called murder, but for the other, it is permitted.
2. I do have a remedy that promotes equality, of course.
Charge him with assault, charge him with reckless endangerment, or whatever else may be applicable. But murder? I can't see how that is justifiable. It cannot be a surgical procedure when voluntary and murder when involuntary in my book.
I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
I rarely post in this forum but this is the kind of thing that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I support the status quo on abortion and oppose efforts to restrict access to the procedures. However I think consistency is incredibly important. Life is life... or it isn't. I could see a justification for an assault charge but I'm completely opposed to the notion that a man should go to prison for 13 years for something if done voluntarily wouldn't have been a crime at all. Thoughts?
Man tricks pregnant girlfriend into taking abortion pill - CNN.com
I agree with you. But let's look at how minor the charges for what he did to the woman are.
He not only dosed her with a very strong pharmaceutical causing her to lose a wanted pregnancy, but he did so improperly, putting her at high risk of complication. Why is there no grievous bodily harm charge? Simple assault? That's it? Really? The same charge he would have gotten if he's threatened to smack her?
And therein lies the thing that is truly twisted about this case.
There is a REASON they pushed for a murder conviction, despite the fact that killing a ZEF oneself carries no charge. It was an attempt to politicize this case, and if he was found guilty, it would cause his conviction to conflict with the current classification of a ZEF as defined by Row, which sets the stage for a court challenge.
Basically, the prosecution was just using this woman as a tool to get some licks in on the abortion debate.
And they cared so little about her that they couldn't even be bothered to attach a serious charge to the harm that he did to her. Just some little nothing-charge that doesn't carry any significant time. Charging him for what he did to her was almost an afterthought. They were too busy thinking about the embryo.
Which means they were pushing for one of two results from this case: creating yet another anti-choice state, or just letting the guy go with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
That is what is really disturbing about this case.
The entire set-up of the case completely rejects the idea that the woman herself was violated significantly and deserved justice. It places her as nothing but a vehicle for debating the man's will vs. the embryo's right or lack of to occupy a woman's body, and that's all. The set-up of the case showed that the prosecution cared so little for this woman's rights and agency and integrity that they would rather use her as a political tool and risk the guy just getting out scott free, because they cared not even the tiniest bit about getting justice for her.
Florida again...hmmm.. Well, doesn't the father have any rights? He would be financially responsible for this child for many, many years...and how much love did she have for this guy if she can send him off to prison for 13 years? It's a shame as his life is ruined forever now.. But he did make the choice....
I'll take your word for it as this isn't an area I'm remotely familiar with. However in my opinion this still evades the central ethical point. He was convicted and given a lengthy prison sentence on the basis that he had killed someone, a murder charge that carried a life sentence to be precise. To equate what he did to murder is unconscionable to me. As I said before I support access to abortion and oppose efforts to roll back the status quo. However we need to be consistent in how we define life and demarcate the realm of punishment.
Charge him with assault, charge him with reckless endangerment, or whatever else may be applicable. But murder? I can't see how that is justifiable. It cannot be a surgical procedure when voluntary and murder when involuntary in my book.
The bolded section is just not true. He was not charged with murder. He was charged with violating UVVA
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