Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". [W:111]

[Mashmont]

Re: No one expects ...

Christendom ≠ Christianity.

A pleasure, I'm sure.

The terms are interchangeable. So much for your snarky attempt to sound smart.

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

**** Holtz. Only other racist pricks care about anything he says.

Right. Holtz' black players at ND loved him as he led them to a national championship

 

[OceanBlues1]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

1/ Biden isn't a practicing Catholic, since he supports baby-killing. Holtz is spot on.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether Biden is a practicing Catholic or not. He's still far more fit to be President than Trump has proved himself to be. And I think this guy Holtz is an idiot, so it doesn't matter what he believes.

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

I think this guy Holtz is an idiot, so it doesn't matter what he believes.

You got school this morning?

 

[Cordelier]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

You gave yourself away when you said "deny women domain over their own bodies". That's pure leftwing speak. Abortion is not about the woman's body; it's about the baby's body. My wife and I discussed abortion and every other moral issue long before we married. I wouldn't have married a woman who didn't abhor abortion, so we wouldn't have the debate you talk about having with your wife, should the issue arise. Abortion is grievously wrong. Period. The acid test is the question of rape. Would you equivocate in the case of rape? Would you say "I am personally opposed to rape, but I wouldn't tell a man what he can do with his own body"? Of course you wouldn't, because you know the primary issue isn't a man's body, and so it isn't with women and abortion. As a responsible Catholic politician, I would do everything in my power to make abortion illegal.

Jesus, Mashmont... are you really equating a woman getting pregnant by rape with a rapist's intent???? Of course the primary issue is a man's body! He's free to do whatever he wants with his body right up to the point where it infringes on the woman's rights. A woman has a right not to be raped, does she not? And the same goes for the woman as well... she's free to do whatever she wants with her body right up to the point where in infringes on anyone else' s rights. I know here you're going to argue that abortion obviously infringes on the right of the fetus... but that only holds true if a fetus has rights. It doesn't. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution is very clear that rights only come into existence at birth. There is no path to citizenship for a fetus other than to be born. Only then does it become a person. Until that point, it is a proto-person, and proto-people do not have rights.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

No, I wouldn't agree. First, Biden's position on abortion is diametrically opposed to that of the Catholic Church. Secondly, you ALWAYS do the right moral thing regardless of the circumstances. As a Catholic, Biden should be doing everything in his power to eliminate abortions starting by working to make them illegal. As president, he should veto any budget that provides money for abortion mills. That's his moral duty.

You don't seem to understand that the US is a secular state prohibited by our founding fathers and the Constitution they wrote from endorsing any religion or enacting any laws that enforce specific tenets of any religion. Additionally legislation and the budget originate from Congress. The president cannot make abortion illegal nor can the president alter the budget to suit his/her religion.

You also don't seem to understand that you as a Catholic are not in anyway prohibited from believing that abortion is wrong. Nobody is forcing abortion or any other religious belief on your family or your Church.

Why do you want to impose your personal religion on women?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Right. Holtz' black players at ND loved him as he led them to a national championship

They may appreciate their coach, but they don’t love the bigot.

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Jesus, Mashmont... are you really equating a woman getting pregnant by rape with a rapist's intent???? Of course the primary issue is a man's body! He's free to do whatever he wants with his body right up to the point where it infringes on the woman's rights. A woman has a right not to be raped, does she not? And the same goes for the woman as well... she's free to do whatever she wants with her body right up to the point where in infringes on anyone else' s rights. I know here you're going to argue that abortion obviously infringes on the right of the fetus... but that only holds true if a fetus has rights. It doesn't. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution is very clear that rights only come into existence at birth. There is no path to citizenship for a fetus other than to be born. Only then does it become a person. Until that point, it is a proto-person, and proto-people do not have rights.

We are arguing moral rights, not government rights, as this entire abortion debate is about the immorality of the government (SCOTUS) ruling.

 

[Cordelier]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

We are arguing moral rights, not government rights, as this entire abortion debate is about the immorality of the government (SCOTUS) ruling.

You know what the sum total of "moral rights" amount to, Mashmont? You've got the right to have your own moral code of things you won't or will not do. Just like I've got the right to my own moral code.... and everyone else has a right to their moral code. Just because my moral code may be different than your's gives you no right to judge me, nor I you. Nor can I be expected to live by the dictates of anyone else's moral code. As a Christian, my moral code is a matter purely between myself and my Creator.

So if abortion is against your moral code, then don't get one. But nobody has the right to tell anyone else what should be against their moral code. That is for every individual to decide in their own way, for their own reasons, and in their own time.... and it is nobody's business but their's and their Creator's... if they happen to believe in one. It's not for anyone else to judge.

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

We are arguing moral rights, not government rights, as this entire abortion debate is about the immorality of the government (SCOTUS) ruling.

What is the point in arguing if you don't expect the government to change. Your morality is yours, nobody is stopping you from being a practicing Catholic. It's actually none of your business what other people do about reproduction, anymore than it is the government's business to tell you how many children you can have or must have. What you are doing here is simply trying promote the religious conservative's idea that pro-choice advocates are killers. it's not working. All you are accomplishing is to convince people you really are a bigot.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Moderator's Warning:

Cease the personal attacks and focus on the subject of this thread.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

I think the topic is about following Church doctrine if you claim to be a member. You don't get to make your own up and claim to be a member of an organized religion.

And I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the pretending that people like Mash dont want to force their beliefs onto people by law. They claim it's an issue based on morality, but it cannot be dealt with societally without law.

It's completely dishonest and even arrogant (and unConstitutional) to try and force their moral/religious beliefs on others when according to God Himself, He gave us all free will to choose to follow Him or not. To follow His Law or not.

So no 'person' has the right to use 'man's law' to make others others follow God's Word. That removes the free will that God chose to give us all...that is God's Will. They are arrogant and attempting to usurp God's Authority.


If you are not religious and find all this BS, that's fine...but for those that claim to be following God's Word...if they want to use laws to force their religious beliefs on others, they are sinning, big time.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Questerr]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". [W:111]

Lou Holtz calls Joe Biden 'Catholic in name only' during RNC speech

“One of the important reasons [President Donald Trump] has my trust is because nobody is but a stronger advocate for the unborn than President Trump,” Holtz said. “The Biden-Harris ticket is the most radically pro-abortion campaign in history. They and other politicians are Catholics in name only and abandon innocent lives. President Trump protects those lives. I trust President Trump.”

Holtz led into his line about trust in Trump by citing his time at Notre Dame and the fact that there’s a statue of him at the school.

Holtz' speech was devastatingly effective. The leftwing media is desperately trying to counter the message by immediately trotting out James Martin leftwing so-called priest to slam Holtz. Martin in the past has been highly critical of Trump, but lets Biden slide on the abortion issue. Left-leaning Notre Dame also distanced itself from Holtz, when they should be defending him, or at least commenting that Biden's abortion stance is reprehensible. But they don't. And that is a disgrace. The media is also pushing the meme that Biden a 'devout Catholic', which is an insult to devout Catholics. When someone actively works against the foundational pillar of one's faith, respect for human life, he not only can't be called 'devout', he can't be called 'practicing', either. So Holtz was right on the money when he said Biden and others (say, Pelosi) are Catholics in name only. They should be denied Holy Communion and threatened with ex-communication, IMHO. And unless they publicly repent, they will be judged very severely in the afterlife, IMHO.

'''Judge not''': priest rejects RNC speaker'''s attack on Biden'''s faith

My prayer is for Democrats who support abortion to renounce that belief. I believe it will happen for some.

What's the Catholic Church's position on the sins of lying and adultery?

 

[Questerr]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

I judge bad actions, which we are called to condemn.

What bad actions? How many abortions has Biden conducted or had performed on himself?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". [W:111]

Lou Holtz calls Joe Biden 'Catholic in name only' during RNC speech

“One of the important reasons [President Donald Trump] has my trust is because nobody is but a stronger advocate for the unborn than President Trump,” Holtz said. “The Biden-Harris ticket is the most radically pro-abortion campaign in history. They and other politicians are Catholics in name only and abandon innocent lives. President Trump protects those lives. I trust President Trump.”

Holtz led into his line about trust in Trump by citing his time at Notre Dame and the fact that there’s a statue of him at the school.

Holtz' speech was devastatingly effective. The leftwing media is desperately trying to counter the message by immediately trotting out James Martin leftwing so-called priest to slam Holtz. Martin in the past has been highly critical of Trump, but lets Biden slide on the abortion issue. Left-leaning Notre Dame also distanced itself from Holtz, when they should be defending him, or at least commenting that Biden's abortion stance is reprehensible. But they don't. And that is a disgrace. The media is also pushing the meme that Biden a 'devout Catholic', which is an insult to devout Catholics. When someone actively works against the foundational pillar of one's faith, respect for human life, he not only can't be called 'devout', he can't be called 'practicing', either. So Holtz was right on the money when he said Biden and others (say, Pelosi) are Catholics in name only. They should be denied Holy Communion and threatened with ex-communication, IMHO. And unless they publicly repent, they will be judged very severely in the afterlife, IMHO.

'''Judge not''': priest rejects RNC speaker'''s attack on Biden'''s faith

My prayer is for Democrats who support abortion to renounce that belief. I believe it will happen for some.

Holtz is a football coach... I doubt many people give a **** about his opinion, nor should they.

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

You know what the sum total of "moral rights" amount to, Mashmont? You've got the right to have your own moral code of things you won't or will not do. Just like I've got the right to my own moral code.... and everyone else has a right to their moral code. Just because my moral code may be different than your's gives you no right to judge me, nor I you. Nor can I be expected to live by the dictates of anyone else's moral code. As a Christian, my moral code is a matter purely between myself and my Creator.

So if abortion is against your moral code, then don't get one. But nobody has the right to tell anyone else what should be against their moral code. That is for every individual to decide in their own way, for their own reasons, and in their own time.... and it is nobody's business but their's and their Creator's... if they happen to believe in one. It's not for anyone else to judge.

This is completely false. Morality is 100% objective. Consequences for immorality are also 100% objective. They don't care if you believe in them or not. They still happen to you. The atheist who sleeps around but thinks it's OK suffers the very same negative consequences for doing so that a theist does.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

Who in hell would care what Holtz thinks about abortion?

ND received a 2 year NCAA suspension with Holtz at the helm.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

This is completely false. Morality is 100% objective. Consequences for immorality are also 100% objective. They don't care if you believe in them or not. They still happen to you. The atheist who sleeps around but thinks it's OK suffers the very same negative consequences for doing so that a theist does.

An entirely false statement that you cannot even prove.

We all know that your cult that claims 100% moral objectivity used violence, torture, coercion, lies and war in the past and would still do so today if legal. Forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will would be torture, for example. Lying and repression about the results of enjoying responsible sex and being gay and the need for abortion are all proof that there's nothing 100% moral about the Catholic cult.

Your cult hides, moves, and protects pedophiles. It denies (lying) it has gay priests. Your cult still sits on billions in assets while continuing to demand tithes from its followers and allowing millions to live in poverty. Avarice is a sin.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Cordelier]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

This is completely false. Morality is 100% objective. Consequences for immorality are also 100% objective. They don't care if you believe in them or not. They still happen to you. The atheist who sleeps around but thinks it's OK suffers the very same negative consequences for doing so that a theist does.

My conscience is my own, as is your's. As is anybody's. Is it not Catholic teaching that people must follow their conscience, and if they do not, they must be condemned by their conscience?

 

[weaver2]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

This is completely false. Morality is 100% objective. Consequences for immorality are also 100% objective. They don't care if you believe in them or not. They still happen to you. The atheist who sleeps around but thinks it's OK suffers the very same negative consequences for doing so that a theist does.

So only atheists have sex outside of marriage? LOL, so none of the 200,000 Catholic women that get abortions have slept around? You must live in a data free world.

 

[year2late]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

So only atheists have sex outside of marriage? LOL, so none of the 200,000 Catholic women that get abortions have slept around? You must live in a data free world.

It is pretty common that some individuals will deny that once a person sins, they are no longer Catholic.

For example, there were no Pedophile Priests - because a Catholic would never do what they did.:lamo

It is an odd mentality, and kinda flies in the face of what Jesus taught us about sinners.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

So only atheists have sex outside of marriage? LOL, so none of the 200,000 Catholic women that get abortions have slept around? You must live in a data free world.

More like a 'reality-free' world. According to him, if you sin, then you're just not really a Catholic.

And yet, God knows we all sin...that is why He gave His life, so that we could have life everlasting if we ask His forgiveness.

It's odd that I get accused of cherry-picking the Bible when they do the same :roll:

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[Mashmont]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

More like a 'reality-free' world. According to him, if you sin, then you're just not really a Catholic.

And yet, God knows we all sin...that is why He gave His life, so that we could have life everlasting if we ask His forgiveness.

It's odd that I get accused of cherry-picking the Bible when they do the same :roll:

I never said that. I said if you believed abortion is acceptable, you are not a practicing Catholic. I also think it would be exceedingly rare for a pracitcing Catholic who attends weekly Mass to have an abortion, as you have to descend through so many layers of depravity to get to that point, you probably would have stopped attending Mass by then.

 

[year2late]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

I never said that. I said if you believed abortion is acceptable, you are not a practicing Catholic. I also think it would be exceedingly rare for a pracitcing Catholic who attends weekly Mass to have an abortion, as you have to descend through so many layers of depravity to get to that point, you probably would have stopped attending Mass by then.

So a practicing Catholic cannot be a sinner?

 

[Peter King]

Re: Lou Holtz' Speech: "Biden and Others Who Support Abortion Are Catholics In Name Only". Spot On

I never said that. I said if you believed abortion is acceptable, you are not a practicing Catholic. I also think it would be exceedingly rare for a pracitcing Catholic who attends weekly Mass to have an abortion, as you have to descend through so many layers of depravity to get to that point, you probably would have stopped attending Mass by then.

Many practicing catholics believe in the freedom to choose. Their backward church leaders may not, but luckily the religious people themselves have gotten to realize that always following these old farts is not the way forward or the way of the truth.