Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zimmerm

[justabubba]

George Zimmerman 911 screams experts ruling - OrlandoSentinel.com

defense team won another round

... judge today ruled that prosecutors may not put on the witness stand two state audio experts who say the voice heard screaming in the background of a 911 call was someone other than Zimmerman.

pretty good for a divorce attorney, eh sharon

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Which side is the judge working for?

 

[buck]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

George Zimmerman 911 screams experts ruling - OrlandoSentinel.com

defense team won another round



pretty good for a divorce attorney, eh sharon

We were assured there was no possibility of this happening.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Which side is the judge working for?

Common sense.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

We were assured there was no possibility of this happening.

and how many times have they been right thus far?

 

[Compatibilist]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Fair ruling!

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Which side is the judge working for?

For the prosecution. She just knew this wouldn't withstand review, so had no choice.

Local Attorney commentary says she rarely rules in favor of the Defense unless they are on point.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Common sense.

With the virtually unlimitted resources of the state, they can produce paid junk science "experts" to testify to just about anything. That forces the defense into a postion to find and pay "counter" junk science "experts" to try to refute that nonsense. That situation should be (and in this case was) avoided to give the defense a decent chance of not wasting their more limitted resources.

 

[buck]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

The actual order - I have not read it just yet.

Judge Nelson Rules In Favor Of Zimmerman Defense: State’s 9-1-1 Voice Experts Excluded! [Docs] | Axiom Amnesia

Edit: Have now read it. Sure sounds to be on solid ground. I still almost wish that Reich could be allowed to testify, though. I would love to hear that guy again and the jury would almost certain find it just as fun.

What are the chances that Nelson ruled this way in order to prevent the state from embarrassing themselves and inadvertently torpedoing their own case?

 

[ABC10]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Oh, Freddie Leatherhead and his gang are so concerned that West is losing it.

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Oh, Freddie Leatherhead and his gang are so concerned that West is losing it.

What?


I was wondering how they were taking the ruling over there, and how many splody heads there were, but why are they concerned about West?

 

[buck]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Oh, Freddie Leatherhead and his gang are so concerned that West is losing it.

I like how they are gong through the states of grief.

Denial: The science is great and will never be disallowed (Leather even wrote a big blog entry about it)

Anger: "After what Judge Nelson did during jury selection, I am thoroughly disgusted with her."

Depression: "I am really upset that today there was a ruling on no voice experts for the state. Why did JN rule this way? I am so crying over here. I was so hoping this was going to go through."

Acceptance: "...people here have made some valid points. The main thing is the tape is IN, the jury WILL hear those screams, and common sense and other evidence will tell them who is screaming! They will still hear Trayvon’s cries!"

 

[Excon]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Acceptance: "...people here have made some valid points. The main thing is the tape is IN, the jury WILL hear those screams, and common sense and other evidence will tell them who is screaming! They will still hear Trayvon’s cries!"

:lamo
That is Denial disguised as acceptance.

 

[ABC10]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Waiting for Freddy to come out with his essai on the Owen/Reich denial. This ought to be a good one.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

For the prosecution. She just knew this wouldn't withstand review, so had no choice.

Local Attorney commentary says she rarely rules in favor of the Defense unless they are on point.

Thanks for that reply.

What is the point of law regarding the voice analysis?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

:lamo
That is Denial disguised as acceptance.

I don't see how any jury will be able to ascertain that the screams on the 911 tape are from Martin unless the prosecution manages to portray Martin as some kind of Erkel or Ru Paul clone - the scream sounds almost feminine to me - because of that, it sounds more like a high-pitched latino voice to me, more like Zimmerman's.

 

[ABC10]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

I don't see how any jury will be able to ascertain that the screams on the 911 tape are from Martin unless the prosecution manages to portray Martin as some kind of Erkel or Ru Paul clone - the scream sounds almost feminine to me - because of that, it sounds more like a high-pitched latino voice to me, more like Zimmerman's.

I think anyone can figure out that the guy all bloodied and beat up was screaming particularly as there are 2 witnesses who say that the guy in red (that's Zimmerman) was on the bottom screaming. That is surely not nuclear science.
13 year old said "I saw a man on the ground, needing help and screaming.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

So I guess what the jury will hear in reference to those screams from the defense, will be Zimmerman claiming it was him, witnesses that say it was Z, and the police who say in interviews and in their reports it was Z... For the prosecution, nada, zip, zero, nothing... Unless of course they want to bring Martin's family in, but if they do that, then the father saying that it was not Trayvon to that reporter comes in...

Clearly a victory for those who value the truth.

 

[charlie hodge]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

I think anyone can figure out that the guy all bloodied and beat up was screaming...

I think you meant to say "no one". No one can out figure who was screaming. That's what was just determined in the Frye hearing.

Also, sometimes people who are about to be shot to death scream, too.

...particularly as there are 2 witnesses who say that the guy in red (that's Zimmerman) was on the bottom screaming. That is surely not nuclear science.
13 year old said "I saw a man on the ground, needing help and screaming.

There are no witnesses who identify Zimmerman as the screamer. At least not reliably. The closest thing you have is Witness 11 who apparently assumed it was Zimmerman even though a) she didn't see the altercation, and b) admits she couldn't recognize his voice.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

There are no witnesses who identify Zimmerman as the screamer. At least not reliably. The closest thing you have is Witness 11 who apparently assumed it was Zimmerman even though a) she didn't see the altercation, and b) admits she couldn't recognize his voice.

It's going to be tough to overcome this:




Then of course there's Zimmerman who confirmed that encounter immediately after the shooting to police... And how do you explain this one:




That's right... That's Martin's father telling the police that was NOT his son's voice screaming on the 911 tape. But hey, when people want a certain outcome rather than the truth, hope and illusion often find a way of creeping in.

 

[charlie hodge]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

So I guess what the jury will hear in reference to those screams from the defense, will be Zimmerman claiming it was him...

That's quite a coup. An accused murderer making a self-serving statement. I don't see how any jury would ever disbelieve something like that.

witnesses that say it was Z

No, they don't. Or at least not in a manner reliable enough to survive 10 seconds under cross-examination.

and the police who say in interviews and in their reports it was Z

The police weren't there. So by what methodology would they be able to accurately determine the identity of the screamer?

... For the prosecution, nada, zip, zero, nothing...

The prosecution definitely lost a piece of evidence with this ruling, but so did the defense.

Where we landed on this issue is that it is not possible to identify who was screaming.

Unless of course they want to bring Martin's family in, but if they do that, then the father saying that it was not Trayvon to that reporter comes in...

And the prosecution can also bring in Zimmerman's inability to recognize what was supposedly his own voice while listening to the 911 call during his interview with Serino.

It ultimately doesn't amount to much. One side will claim it was Zimmerman, the other side will claim it was Martin. Neither side will be able to prove it.

 

[charlie hodge]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

It's going to be tough to overcome this:

It will be incredibly easy to overcome by simply referring to that same witness' interview with the FDLE in which he would retract and clarify his initial statement.

That's right... That's Martin's father telling the police that was NOT his son's voice screaming on the 911 tape. But hey, when people want a certain outcome rather than the truth, hope and illusion often find a way of creeping in.

Like I said above, it's a wash. Neither side can prove who was screaming on the 911 tape. The defense definitely scored a victory on the ruling, but neither side scored a victory regarding the use of the evidence.

 

[Ray410]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

If somebody was going to shoot me, I wouldn't stand there screaming, I'd turn around and run. Maybe dodge to the side, something.

Particularly in this sort of case where it's obvious that Trayvon would be physically able to control the situation, i.e. Zman wouldn't have been able to stop him from running because of the size and physical ability difference.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

That's quite a coup. An accused murderer making a self-serving statement. I don't see how any jury would ever disbelieve something like that.

Zimmerman, a man who had no idea who witnessed the events, or if it had been video taped or recorded in some way, doesn't come out immediately and say he was screaming for help, and recall in detail pleading with a man who was there, to help him instead of calling 911... Unless of course you have better knowledge of human behavior in a situation like that, the decades of law enforcement experience that examined this.

No, they don't. Or at least not in a manner reliable enough to survive 10 seconds under cross-examination.

Really... See post 20 and get back to me.

The police weren't there. So by what methodology would they be able to accurately determine the identity of the screamer?

It's a little know technique to Martin suporters, but one that those not on the "roast the racist" train are familiar with... It involves this thing called "common sense" combined with years of experience, sprinkled in with witnesses at the scene.

The prosecution definitely lost a piece of evidence with this ruling, but so did the defense.

No they didn't... They lost the ability to manipulate the jury with testimony that that the FBI has already determined can't be legitimate.

And the prosecution can also bring in Zimmerman's inability to recognize what was supposedly his own voice while listening to the 911 call during his interview with Serino.

Do any of you Martin cheerleaders give a damn about honesty and the truth? Seriously?

It ultimately doesn't amount too much. One side will claim it was Zimmerman, the other side will claim it was Martin. Neither side will be able to prove it.

You keep telling yourself that and it's only going to hurt that much more when you are faced with reality.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

If somebody was going to shoot me, I wouldn't stand there screaming, I'd turn around and run. Maybe dodge to the side, something.

Particularly in this sort of case where it's obvious that Trayvon would be physically able to control the situation, i.e. Zman wouldn't have been able to stop him from running because of the size and physical ability difference.

What physical ability difference are you referring to? Zimmerman was training at a fight gym and had recently lost 50 lbs working out. Martin was not involved in any sports and was easily winded. Care to explain your reasoning on this?