• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zimmerm

Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Nowhere in his 911 conversation with the dispatcher did he say anything about seeing colors. After the fact was tainted evidence. Since he saw a man on the ground it was assumed to be zimmerman. So, if we go by that Trayvon wasn't on top of him prior to him hearing a shot soon after.

That's a lie... He told police that night the guy in red was on the bottom and the guy wearing a dark shirt was on top... Then after the gunshot, the guy who was on top beating up the guy in red, was now laying on the ground.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

The red shirt part wasn't mentioned at all in the 911 tape. Why can't you be honest, Grim? We've been through this many times in the past already.

Of course it wasn't... When a person calls 911, they don't usually give such a detailed description unless they are asked... The boy was asked by police at the scene to describe who he saw on the ground screaming, and he told them that the person was wearing a red shirt. End of story.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Of course it wasn't... When a person calls 911, they don't usually give such a detailed description unless they are asked... The boy was asked by police at the scene to describe who he saw on the ground screaming, and he told them that the person was wearing a red shirt. End of story.

I'm confident the changes in his story will be explored in cross examination.:cool:
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

That's a lie... He told police that night the guy in red was on the bottom and the guy wearing a dark shirt was on top... Then after the gunshot, the guy who was on top beating up the guy in red, was now laying on the ground.
You're the one who is lying.

In the 911 call which the boy's sister passed over to him to speak to the dispatcher that night, nothing was mentioned about see shirt color. He only saw a man on the ground yelling for help, so how did you come up with a guy wearing a dark shirt on top?
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Of course it wasn't... When a person calls 911, they don't usually give such a detailed description unless they are asked... The boy was asked by police at the scene to describe who he saw on the ground screaming, and he told them that the person was wearing a red shirt. End of story.
Austin never said the saw color of the shirt. Stop your lying. Go listen to the audio of the 911 tape for heaven's sake.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable even in broad daylight with first on site account of what happened. And you want to hang on for dear life the witness account given the next day or so with fluff up details that was not mentioned on actual report given that night when it was dark out there?
 
Last edited:
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

You're the one who is lying.

In the 911 call which the boy's sister passed over to him to speak to the dispatcher that night, nothing was mentioned about see shirt color. He only saw a man on the ground yelling for help, so how did you come up with a guy wearing a dark shirt on top?

Austin never said he saw color of the shirt. Stop your lying. Go listen to the audio of the 911 tape for heaven's sake.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable even in broad daylight with first on site account of what happened. And you want to hang on for dear life the witness account given the next day or so with fluff up details that was not mentioned on actual report given that night when it was dark out there?

There has been no claim that the shirt color statement was part of the 911 call. The claim is that was what he told police in person.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

There has been no claim that the shirt color statement was part of the 911 call. The claim is that was what he told police in person.

No the police told the boy what color the shirt was .... and the boy was cowed.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

No the police told the boy what color the shirt was .... and the boy was cowed.

As I have already posted, everything except Martin's death and Zimmerman's wounds is in dispute.:cool:
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

You're the one who is lying.

In the 911 call which the boy's sister passed over to him to speak to the dispatcher that night, nothing was mentioned about see shirt color. He only saw a man on the ground yelling for help, so how did you come up with a guy wearing a dark shirt on top?

Listen to the audio recording of the interview they did with him at the scene that night, or listen to the audio recording of the interview they did with him at the police station the next day. If that doesn't suit you, then read the written report he gave to the police.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Austin never said he saw color of the shirt. Stop your lying. Go listen to the audio of the 911 tape for heaven's sake.

Was he asked? No, he wasn't... The police at the scene however, did ask him and we all know what he told them.

If you are going to say that statements taken by police at the scene are invalid, then you are living on a planet far, far away...
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Listen to the audio recording of the interview they did with him at the scene that night, or listen to the audio recording of the interview they did with him at the police station the next day. If that doesn't suit you, then read the written report he gave to the police.
The only thing you need to listen to is the 911 tape of that night. Nothing was mentioned of the boy seeing color of shirt. How could he? It was dark and he barely had the chance to see what happened before his dog ran away from him.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

No the police told the boy what color the shirt was .... and the boy was cowed.

Really? And you have proof of this?

I guess you going to say that the reporter who interviewed him on camera also used Vulcan mind tricks to get him to say the guy on the ground screaming was wearing a red shirt?
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

There has been no claim that the shirt color statement was part of the 911 call. The claim is that was what he told police in person.
But the point is that after the fact, any accounts given later ion with more details is suspect, not to mentioned the mother claimed the boy was influenced.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Really? And you have proof of this?

I guess you going to say that the reporter who interviewed him on camera also used Vulcan mind tricks to get him to say the guy on the ground screaming was wearing a red shirt?

Nothing to do with any reporters .. from the police reports on the interview with the boy.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

The only thing you need to listen to is the 911 tape of that night. Nothing was mentioned of the boy seeing color of shirt. How could he? It was dark and he barely had the chance to see what happened before his dog ran away from him.

That's not what he told the police or the members of the news media who interviewed him that night and the next day.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Really? And you have proof of this?

I guess you going to say that the reporter who interviewed him on camera also used Vulcan mind tricks to get him to say the guy on the ground screaming was wearing a red shirt?
We had been thruough that many times long ago, don't act like you don't know that.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

That's not what he told the police or the members of the news media who interviewed him that night and the next day.
Those were subsequent improved version. Not the first 911 account.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

But the point is that after the fact, any accounts given later ion with more details is suspect

That's because unlike the 911 operator, the police asked the witnesses for details... Last time I checked, that was what the police were supposed to do when investigating a shooting death.



not to mentioned the mother claimed the boy was influenced.

Now that I have covered extensively...

Let's examine the 13 year old boy and his role here...This is what he stated to the 911 operator the night of the shooting:

"I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming and then I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, so I went and got my dog, and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped."​

Here's what transpired in the days that followed:

1. He tells police and reporters that he saw someone lying on the ground screaming for help.
2. He identifies the man on the ground screaming, as wearing a red shirt to reporters and police.
3. We know that Zimmerman was the one who was wearing a red/orange top and Martin was wearing a dark hoodie
4. Just as every other witness has, the boy identified Zimmerman as the one on the ground.
5. So the boy witnessed a man on the ground screaming for help, who he identified by clothing to be George Zimmerman.

Now fast forward to the article linked in post #30:

1. The mother claims his sons words were twisted to incinuate it was Zimmerman screaming.
2. Both the boy and his mother now claim he couldn't determine who it was screaming for help that night.
3. Both the boy and his mother now believe it was Trayvon Martin who was screaming, not George Zimmerman.
4. Near the end it says the boy "...didn't see much, just someone lying on the ground and screaming".

The story seems to contradict itself. They didn't change or dispute the description the boy gave of the man on the ground as wearing a red shirt, just that he didn't see who it was screaming... Then with no reasons given, they say they believe now it was Martin screaming, yet at the end of the story it says he saw a man on the ground screaming. I'm confused?

The question now is, what changed between then and now that would lead them to tell that reporter that they now believe it was Martin who was screaming for help? I think maybe these quotes from the story might give us some idea:

1. The boy said "They still haven't arrested him yet," and "That's pretty much the main thing that's upsetting me."
2. The mother said, "That investigator said flat out that we don't think it was self-defense,"
3. The mother said, "Several times he (an investigator) said, 'I have kids, and I'm going to tell you something that I don't tell many people... You have to read between the lines. There's some stereotyping going on.'"
4. The mother said, "He stood here in my family room telling me that this guy [Zimmerman] is not right and it wasn't self-defense and that they have to prove that it wasn't. He was adamant about that."
5. The boy said, "If I was like two years older, that could have happened to me"

So lets review... An investigator interviews the family, a black family, and insinuates that Zimmerman has mental problems and he wasn't acting in self defense, that he targeted Martin because he was black, and states adamantly to the family how they have to prove it wasn't self defense... I'm no rocket scientist, but I think it's pretty clear why the boy's story changed, and it has nothing to do with twisted words, manipulation by police, or the truth about what the boy actually saw...

Whether the mother's claims about what that investigator told her are true or not, the reason the boy's story changed comes down to one thing, and one thing only... It's because Trayvon Martin was black, and George Zimmerman was not... PERIOD.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that what the boy said to the 911 operator that night, to the police, and to that TV reporter was the truth... That George Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Those were subsequent improved version. Not the first 911 account.

The 911 accounts were not interviews where witnesses were asked specific details... You can't seriously believe that statements given to the police are invalid?
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

The 911 accounts were not interviews where witnesses were asked specific details... You can't seriously believe that statements given to the police are invalid?

Grim, you are obviously correct. However, based on prior conversations with dolphin, he truly expects witnesses to tell every single detail to the 911 operator. If they do not tell every detail then mention something later while being interviewed by the police he will accuse the witness of lying and being part of this grand conspiracy. You have no hope of changing his mind.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Those were subsequent improved version. Not the first 911 account.

I can hear it now... Yes your honor, I witnessed the whole thing... I saw the one armed man pull a gun out from his waistband, place the barrel of that gun to the woman's head and pull the trigger. She fell to the ground in a pool of blood and the man threw the gun into the street drain that was beside her body...

Objection... The witness only told the 911 operator that a woman had been shot... He never said it was a man who had done the shoting, much less a one armed man, and there was no mention what so ever about any gun, or of a street drain... I move for a dismissal.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Grim, you are obviously correct. However, based on prior conversations with dolphin, he truly expects witnesses to tell every single detail to the 911 operator. If they do not tell every detail then mention something later while being interviewed by the police he will accuse the witness of lying and being part of this grand conspiracy. You have no hope of changing his mind.

If he really believes that, I don't think a team of medical experts could change it his mind.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

Austin never said the saw color of the shirt. Stop your lying. Go listen to the audio of the 911 tape for heaven's sake.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable even in broad daylight with first on site account of what happened. And you want to hang on for dear life the witness account given the next day or so with fluff up details that was not mentioned on actual report given that night when it was dark out there?

One thing that should be obvious that almost no one ever brings up is that first of all, if you believe Zimmerman's story, he started all the way up at the dog walk and ended up stumbling/shimmying/squirming his way 45' to the south. If Martin was straddling him from the start, meaning he jumped on top of him with his knees on the ground and his weight on Zimmerman's shoulders, then moving 45' is physically impossible. But listen to what "John" says (who is the favorite witness for Zimmerman's supporters). He says he saw them laying FLAT on top of each other, if meaning belly to belly, not straddling. And that is the kind of position where people who are wrestling tend to roll over. And the obvious reason why witnesses don't agree about who was on top is that both of them were at various times. They were wrestling on the ground, swapping positions. It's entirely possibly that each witness is accurately describing what they saw, which was a rolling wrestling match where each person had moments where they were in control.

In the end, Zimmerman describes gaining "wrist control" of Martin. I think it's possible at that time he was on top. Notice also that the blood on the back of his head is dripping downward toward his ears, as if he were on top when the bleeding started. It's possible that in gaining his top position he hit his head and then flipped them over which could be (COULD BE) when he shot him. No one saw the moment where the gun went off, but regardless, the fact that witnesses see different people on top doesn't make them liars, it makes ZIMMERMAN the liar since he said he was never, not once, not ever, on top until Martin was dead.
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

No the police told the boy what color the shirt was .... and the boy was cowed.

why would the police intimidate a child witness like that, sharon?
give us the logic, the reasoning, of the police doing that
explain for us why your presentation should be found logical, reasonable, and not the rantings of someone whose story is unraveling
 
Re: Judge bars audio experts from George Zimmerman trial who say screams were not Zim

why would the police intimidate a child witness like that, sharon?
give us the logic, the reasoning, of the police doing that
explain for us why your presentation should be found logical, reasonable, and not the rantings of someone whose story is unraveling

Poor interview techniques.. being in a hurry.. They did the same thing to one f the adult witnesses.
 
Back
Top Bottom