John Oliver on Transgender Females in Women's Sports

[CLAX1911]

https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/ Heres a good primer on the subject.

I would think swimming on a team with women that are female would make someone like Leah Thomas understand that he's different. This is the sort of thing that should give a trans person dysphoria not something that should alleviate it.

 

[BrotherFease]

When competing against men, Thomas wasn't even competitive nationally.

Thomas was still an all-star swimmer before transitioning into a woman. Her ranking was higher as woman than as a man. But here's the thing: So what? She didn't sexually harass anybody or cause harm to others.

Michael Phelps had biological advantages when he was an Olympic Swimmer. His long wingspan and large feet, gave him a major advantage in swimmer. I do not see anybody complaining about that.

How about black people in football and basketball? Don't people over the height of 6'0 have an advantage in basketball so say me, who is 5'7?

Sure enough, Oliver attempted to insult those who would disagree. The reason his show is a monologue is because he wants to frame the opposing argument himself rather than have to deal with whatever counterpoints come at him on the fly.

He didn't mock people for having a different point-of-view. He mocked them for being dishonest.

 

[CLAX1911]

Thomas was still an all-star swimmer before transitioning into a woman.

He didn't transition into a woman. The girls that you're the locker room with him said that he still had a penis.

And I'm not sure what you mean by All Star swimmer he was ranked like 400

Her ranking was higher as woman than as a man. But here's the thing: So what?

He's a man he should have never been on the women's team

She didn't sexually harass anybody or cause harm to others.

That's not what the women say. They say he took his dick out and the locker room quite a bit.

Michael Phelps had biological advantages when he was an Olympic Swimmer. His long wingspan and large feet, gave him a major advantage in swimmer. I do not see anybody complaining about that.

He swim in the open category. If you swim in the restricted category I'd have just as much objection

How about black people in football and basketball? Don't people over the height of 6'0 have an advantage in basketball so say me, who is 5'7?

Are they playing in the open category or are they trying to get in the women's category?

He didn't mock people for having a different point-of-view. He mocked them for being dishonest.

 

[maquiscat]

I just watched the entire 42 minute segment. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Please note: It is worth your time. My posts will not be as detailed as John Oliver.

Oliver's Main Points:
- Transgender females do not transition just so they can play on the female sports team. Most organizations permitting transgender females have hormonal requirements.

- All of the scientific studies of transgender females in sports have a small sample size and feature unreliable data.

- The opponents of transgender females in women's sports consistently exaggerate and mislead people.

- Riley Gaines tied Lia Thomas in a swimming competition for fifth place, and then got "embarrassed" because she wasn't allowed to stand on the 5th place podium for a photo op. After she tied for fifth, she decided to use Thomas as a means to get wealthy. If Gaines didn't tie Thomas, she would have gone to dental school.

- Lia Thomas placed 1st, 8th, and 5th in the national swimming competitions. Even she didn't dominate all of her events.

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

- There was a complaint filed against a transgender female San Jose State player for having an 80 mile per hour spike speed. It turns out it was only 50 miles per hour, which wasn't even near the record-holders or the fastest in the Mountain West Conference.

- No transgender females have won any scholarships to any university. In the case of the two Connecticut transgender runners, the complaint was that they stole scholarship opportunity from the other competitors, when the reverse was true.

- The number of transgender females in sports is very very small. Not every transgender female who competes, wins medals or races. States who tried to ban transgender females from women's sports fail to show any example of a transgender female dominating a single female sport within their state.

- The Right loves to use the "800 medals" stat in discussions and political debate. They claim it came from the U.N. It turns out it did not actually come from the UN, but a website which asked people submit competitions from across the world, where a transgender female beat a genetic female in an event. These events includes poker and Irish dancing. Plus, the metal counts feature duplication of events and counting a first place finish as three medals. Some of the examples submitted feature people who do not object to transgender females in women's sports.

- The debate isn't really about "fairness". Women's sports are extremely underfunded and feature poor quality fields. The Right's main objection is to deny transgender people their right to exist, and sports is their avenue for success. They do not care about women's sports or their safety.

- Youth sports are fine. They are about social development. Professional sports we need to look more into the impact.

Point of order (if it hasn't already been addressed): Transgender females are trans men. Your articles and points are focused on transgender males, or trans women.

 

[maquiscat]

Do we need to check every athlete's testosterone level before the kid plays JV basketball? It's crazy.

If the argument is that the testosterone in bio males provides them with a biological advantage, then logically if a biological female has testosterone at even the lower levels of biological males, they would have the same biological advantage.

 

[maquiscat]

If you're asking why we have woman's sports they're for a simple reason.

It's because women were beating men and they had to be reminded of their place. No seriously, why do you think woman's sports doesn't get equal funding to men's sports?

That was certainly the case for olympic skeet shooting.

 

[maquiscat]

Thomas was still an all-star swimmer before transitioning into a woman. Her ranking was higher as woman than as a man. But here's the thing: So what? She didn't sexually harass anybody or cause harm to others.

As I recall, there was a lot of upset at how Thomas behaved in the women's locker room. She wasn't just go in, shower and change. She flaunted what she still had. She's a good example for how trans women are not slamming out women's records as opponents claim (cis women are doing the actual breaking of these records), but the behavior of people like Thomas and Mulvaney only aid opponents in their complaints against trans women.

Michael Phelps had biological advantages when he was an Olympic Swimmer. His long wingspan and large feet, gave him a major advantage in swimmer. I do not see anybody complaining about that.

How about black people in football and basketball? Don't people over the height of 6'0 have an advantage in basketball so say me, who is 5'7?

These are perfect examples of why we should be dividing sports along the lines of ability not sex/gender

 

[Phys251]

As I recall, there was a lot of upset at how Thomas behaved in the women's locker room. She wasn't just go in, shower and change. She flaunted what she still had. She's a good example for how trans women are not slamming out women's records as opponents claim (cis women are doing the actual breaking of these records), but the behavior of people like Thomas and Mulvaney only aid opponents in their complaints against trans women.

That rumors of Thomas's behavior in the dressing room exist does not mean they were true. I would have to hear her side of the story.

 

[maquiscat]

That rumors of Thomas's behavior in the dressing room exist does not mean they were true. I would have to hear her side of the story.

Not sure I would trust her version of such, especially if she knows what she did was wrong. What is your plan for determining whether she is lying or not? Being transgender doesn't prevent her from being dishonest or reprehensible in her actions.

 

[Gatsby]

Michael Phelps had biological advantages when he was an Olympic Swimmer. His long wingspan and large feet, gave him a major advantage in swimmer. I do not see anybody complaining about that.

Michael Phelps did not take drugs and have extreme body modification surgeries to be the way he is. Lia Thomas did.

How about black people in football and basketball?

How about them? Being black has nothing to do with athletic ability?

Don't people over the height of 6'0 have an advantage in basketball so say me, who is 5'7?

Sure, and you are welcome to start a basketball league for people under a certain height. Plenty of those exist. And if any 6'0 guys try to join your league by "identifying" as some lesser height, you can and should tell them no.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

That was certainly the case for olympic skeet shooting.

Even earlier in the 1900's.

 

[maquiscat]

Even earlier in the 1900's.

I just mentioned the one I was aware of, but do feel free to provide specific examples.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I just mentioned the one I was aware of, but do feel free to provide specific examples.

I can't remember them on the top of my head but that's one of the reasons for the division.

 

[tharock220]

Thomas was still an all-star swimmer before transitioning into a woman. Her ranking was higher as woman than as a man. But here's the thing: So what? She didn't sexually harass anybody or cause harm to others.

Never competed at a competition higher than the Ivy League Championships as a man and didn't win a single event but managed to win events in the NCAA National Championships as a woman.

Didn't try to qualify for the Rio or Tokyo Olympics swim teams as a man, attempted to compete in Paris. She even went so far as to sue an international governing body based in Switzlerland from a Pennsylvania county court house.

Michael Phelps had biological advantages when he was an Olympic Swimmer. His long wingspan and large feet, gave him a major advantage in swimmer. I do not see anybody complaining about that.

Yup. In sports we can only split competitors so far before telling them that the rest is on them. Size and gender are where it stops, which is why Thomas's swimming career is over.

How about black people in football and basketball? Don't people over the height of 6'0 have an advantage in basketball so say me, who is 5'7?

Find something esle to be good at.

He didn't mock people for having a different point-of-view. He mocked them for being dishonest.

No he mocked them and tried to create the opposing arguments. He's arguing with himself.

John Oliver won't have anybody on his show because he can't think on the fly. He got so badly embarassed when he replaced Jon Stewart on The Daily Show that they stopped having guests for the final few weeks before Stewart returned from directing Rosewater, and Trevor Noah got the tapped to become host instead.

 

[Bodi]

I just watched the entire 42 minute segment. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Please note: It is worth your time. My posts will not be as detailed as John Oliver.

Oliver's Main Points:
- Transgender females do not transition just so they can play on the female sports team. Most organizations permitting transgender females have hormonal requirements.

- All of the scientific studies of transgender females in sports have a small sample size and feature unreliable data.

- The opponents of transgender females in women's sports consistently exaggerate and mislead people.

- Riley Gaines tied Lia Thomas in a swimming competition for fifth place, and then got "embarrassed" because she wasn't allowed to stand on the 5th place podium for a photo op. After she tied for fifth, she decided to use Thomas as a means to get wealthy. If Gaines didn't tie Thomas, she would have gone to dental school.

- Lia Thomas placed 1st, 8th, and 5th in the national swimming competitions. Even she didn't dominate all of her events.

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

- There was a complaint filed against a transgender female San Jose State player for having an 80 mile per hour spike speed. It turns out it was only 50 miles per hour, which wasn't even near the record-holders or the fastest in the Mountain West Conference.

- No transgender females have won any scholarships to any university. In the case of the two Connecticut transgender runners, the complaint was that they stole scholarship opportunity from the other competitors, when the reverse was true.

- The number of transgender females in sports is very very small. Not every transgender female who competes, wins medals or races. States who tried to ban transgender females from women's sports fail to show any example of a transgender female dominating a single female sport within their state.

- The Right loves to use the "800 medals" stat in discussions and political debate. They claim it came from the U.N. It turns out it did not actually come from the UN, but a website which asked people submit competitions from across the world, where a transgender female beat a genetic female in an event. These events includes poker and Irish dancing. Plus, the metal counts feature duplication of events and counting a first place finish as three medals. Some of the examples submitted feature people who do not object to transgender females in women's sports.

- The debate isn't really about "fairness". Women's sports are extremely underfunded and feature poor quality fields. The Right's main objection is to deny transgender people their right to exist, and sports is their avenue for success. They do not care about women's sports or their safety.

- Youth sports are fine. They are about social development. Professional sports we need to look more into the impact.

Oliver is a spastic jackass... 15 seconds of him is enough.



j

 

[bomberfox]

I understand John’s point but i still disagree with allowing such competition. Optional co-ed or trans sports maybe? Im not too sure.

 

[CLAX1911]

Point of order (if it hasn't already been addressed): Transgender females are trans men. Your articles and points are focused on transgender males, or trans women.

That's why I just called them men who identify as women. This sort of confusion is on purpose

 

[BrotherFease]

Never competed at a competition higher than the Ivy League Championships as a man and didn't win a single event but managed to win events in the NCAA National Championships as a woman.

True, but so what? My point is: Why does that matter? I know you're not implying that she went "man to woman" so to improve her standing in college swimming.

Didn't try to qualify for the Rio or Tokyo Olympics swim teams as a man, attempted to compete in Paris. She even went so far as to sue an international governing body based in Switzlerland from a Pennsylvania county court house.

The Olympics allows transgender women to compete on the ladies side, if they met hormonal requirements.

No he mocked them and tried to create the opposing arguments. He's arguing with himself.

Just look at what Trump said a couple of months ago. This is an example of the argument being based on dishonesty. Trump said that a "man pretending to be a woman" won a cycling competition in Arizona by 5 and a half hours, which he called a "record-breaker" and called it a "shame". What he doesn't tell you that it was a co-ed event and the transgender women's record was broken later that month by a man.

This is why Oliver mocks the anti-transgender right. Have an honest conversation about the subject matter, and we can come up with a solution.

 

[BrotherFease]

I understand John’s point but i still disagree with allowing such competition. Optional co-ed or trans sports maybe? Im not too sure.

Having a transgender sports league is out of the question. Transgender people make up about 0.5% of the U.S population. States literally have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes competing in school sports. The President of the NCAA testified that there are less than 10 transgender college athletes. The 2022 UCLA study, found that 1.3 million Americans are transgender, and 300k are children between the ages of 12 and 17.

Even if you make it a co-ed league, so anybody can qualify, you run the risk of the league lacking funding AND lacking the proper number of participates.

 

[j brown's body]

Having a transgender sports league is out of the question. Transgender people make up about 0.5% of the U.S population. States literally have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes competing in school sports. The President of the NCAA testified that there are less than 10 transgender college athletes. The 2022 UCLA study, found that 1.3 million Americans are transgender, and 300k are children between the ages of 12 and 17.

Even if you make it a co-ed league, so anybody can qualify, you run the risk of the league lacking funding AND lacking the proper number of participates.

Never have so few engender such hate and fear.

 

[j brown's body]

That's why I just called them men who identify as women. This sort of confusion is on purpose

Not sure that's the source of your confusion.

 

[maquiscat]

Having a transgender sports league is out of the question. Transgender people make up about 0.5% of the U.S population. States literally have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes competing in school sports. The President of the NCAA testified that there are less than 10 transgender college athletes. The 2022 UCLA study, found that 1.3 million Americans are transgender, and 300k are children between the ages of 12 and 17.

Even if you make it a co-ed league, so anybody can qualify, you run the risk of the league lacking funding AND lacking the proper number of participates.

This is why you make it divisions based on ability instead of sex/gender. And, if all that opponents say is true, that would cause most of the trans women to be in direct competition with cis men, and most of the cis women to still be in a division of their own. But no one can call sexual discrimination because it's not based on sex. And if a given cis woman can compete with cis men on a given level, then there is no reason not to let her.

 

[maquiscat]

Never have so few engender such hate and fear.

As far as a transgender league, this isn't hate or fear. It's basic logistics. If there isn't even enough transgenders to make a team, assuming a team sport, then to what point is there for a league. And while co-ed is a viable idea, it only works if you have divisions so that all are competing on a level playing field.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I just watched the entire 42 minute segment. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Please note: It is worth your time. My posts will not be as detailed as John Oliver.

Oliver's Main Points:
- Transgender females do not transition just so they can play on the female sports team. Most organizations permitting transgender females have hormonal requirements.

- All of the scientific studies of transgender females in sports have a small sample size and feature unreliable data.

- The opponents of transgender females in women's sports consistently exaggerate and mislead people.

- Riley Gaines tied Lia Thomas in a swimming competition for fifth place, and then got "embarrassed" because she wasn't allowed to stand on the 5th place podium for a photo op. After she tied for fifth, she decided to use Thomas as a means to get wealthy. If Gaines didn't tie Thomas, she would have gone to dental school.

- Lia Thomas placed 1st, 8th, and 5th in the national swimming competitions. Even she didn't dominate all of her events.

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

- There was a complaint filed against a transgender female San Jose State player for having an 80 mile per hour spike speed. It turns out it was only 50 miles per hour, which wasn't even near the record-holders or the fastest in the Mountain West Conference.

- No transgender females have won any scholarships to any university. In the case of the two Connecticut transgender runners, the complaint was that they stole scholarship opportunity from the other competitors, when the reverse was true.

- The number of transgender females in sports is very very small. Not every transgender female who competes, wins medals or races. States who tried to ban transgender females from women's sports fail to show any example of a transgender female dominating a single female sport within their state.

- The Right loves to use the "800 medals" stat in discussions and political debate. They claim it came from the U.N. It turns out it did not actually come from the UN, but a website which asked people submit competitions from across the world, where a transgender female beat a genetic female in an event. These events includes poker and Irish dancing. Plus, the metal counts feature duplication of events and counting a first place finish as three medals. Some of the examples submitted feature people who do not object to transgender females in women's sports.

- The debate isn't really about "fairness". Women's sports are extremely underfunded and feature poor quality fields. The Right's main objection is to deny transgender people their right to exist, and sports is their avenue for success. They do not care about women's sports or their safety.

- Youth sports are fine. They are about social development. Professional sports we need to look more into the impact.

Ignoring the inconvenient facts of a different bone geometry and density. Hormones can suppress the rest, but the geometry of the hips are a fact.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The irony is that the Christian nationalists are the scourge. Anti-choice, restrictive abortion laws leading to physical harm and deaths of women, keep 'em pregnant and in the kitchen where they belong mentality, trying to dial women's progess back to the the 18th century. And yet it's trans issues and drag queen reading hours that get their knickers knotted.

they would call the pro abortion crowd, murders.