John Oliver on Transgender Females in Women's Sports

[multivita-man]

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

That is not really a valid rebuttal to the concern that anatomically male athletes are naturally strong enough to cause injury to women in some sports. Sure, one could make the argument that a hypothetical female who's extraordinarily strong could do the same thing. Hypothetically, I could eat cheesecake for breakfast on a regular basis and not gain weight. Not likely, though.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

They do, but they have separate women's and men's athletic divisions for a reason. I get that transgender athletes have a female identity, but that doesn't mean they have a female body. I am open-minded on a lot of things, but not this.

 

[CLAX1911]

60 years ago gays were considered to be deviants and perverts, but since then there is science too understand sexual orientation, just as the science supports the existence of gender identity.

I didn't say anyone was a deviant. I said so called gender identity science you're talking about is similar to astrology.

You don't trigger anyone.

Yet here you are being triggered

The genetics and hormonal basis of human gender identity - PMC

Gender identity refers to one's psychological sense of their own gender. Establishing gender identity is a complex phenomenon, and the diversity of gender expression challenges simplistic or unified explanations. For this reason, the extent to which ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's as legitimate as astrology.

 

[BrotherFease]

The primary falsehood is the claim that a man can morph into a woman

I have never said a man could morph into a woman.

Transgender has a specific meaning.

But you could argue that switching from a penis to a vagina or vagina to a penis, could be deemed as a switch of sexes.

I am glad you made that point though, because it highlights the concept that it was never about fairness.

 

[maquiscat]

That is a bad example. Boxing is about what ibs of force a given weight can deliver. On the average a 100 pound male will deliver a greater pounds of force than a 100 pound female

You misread the statement. I did not say the force a 100 lb man or woman delivers. I referenced the force of the punch itself, regardless of the weight of he puncher. Would you have prefered I listed it as newtons? What is the difference to a woman who is struck by 1000 N of force by a woman, and her being struck by 1000 N of force by a man?

 

[Lisa]

The primary falsehood is the claim that a man can morph into a woman

Medical science doesn't say that a cisgender man can morph into a woman with hormones and surgery, but you want bumper-sticker sound bytes instead of the facts. Your strawman arguments are no different than creationists who make equally absurd claims that evolution cannot possibly be true because a fish has never laid an egg that became a chicken. Until you understand the underlying facts of gender identity then none of this will ever possibly make sense to you.

 

[BrotherFease]

That is not really a valid rebuttal to the concern that anatomically male athletes are naturally strong enough to cause injury to women in some sports. Sure, one could make the argument that a hypothetical female who's extraordinarily strong could do the same thing. Hypothetically, I could eat cheesecake for breakfast on a regular basis and not gain weight. Not likely, though.

People get hurt all the time in sports, especially in contact sports. It doesn't matter the gender or sex pairings. My problem here is that there's an assumption that females cannot injury other females.

They do, but they have separate women's and men's athletic divisions for a reason. I get that transgender athletes have a female identity, but that doesn't mean they have a female body. I am open-minded on a lot of things, but not this.

I am willing to meet people in the middle on this issue, a good old fashion compromise. I want to be fair to both the transgender person and the people around them. Maybe the compromise is transgender women can compete in female categories, if it's a non-contact sport like running, swimming. But for softball, volleyball, and so forth, they have to join the men's team or co-ed leagues.

I don't think it is the end of world to say a transgender girl has to compete on the boys side. She can always practice with the girls and wear the girls colors for spirit day or something like that.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Misinformation like claiming a man can take hormones and morph into a woman?

God bless MAGAs...they'll always have the existential threat of transgenders to their manhood to justify cucking themselves to Dear Leader.

 

[maquiscat]

People get hurt all the time in sports, especially in contact sports. It doesn't matter the gender or sex pairings. My problem here is that there's an assumption that females cannot injury other females.


I am willing to meet people in the middle on this issue, a good old fashion compromise. I want to be fair to both the transgender person and the people around them. Maybe the compromise is transgender women can compete in female categories, if it's a non-contact sport like running, swimming. But for softball, volleyball, and so forth, they have to join the men's team or co-ed leagues.

I don't think it is the end of world to say a transgender girl has to compete on the boys side. She can always practice with the girls and wear the girls colors for spirit day or something like that.

Do you continue this logic to say that trans men have to compete in the women's category?

 

[BrotherFease]

Do you continue this logic to say that trans men have to compete in the women's category?

For me, I am okay with transgender women competing in female categories as long as they pass hormonal tests and it's not a physical sport.

But I wouldn't support any compromise that require transgender men to compete in women's sports.

 

[bomberfox]

Having a transgender sports league is out of the question. Transgender people make up about 0.5% of the U.S population. States literally have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes competing in school sports. The President of the NCAA testified that there are less than 10 transgender college athletes. The 2022 UCLA study, found that 1.3 million Americans are transgender, and 300k are children between the ages of 12 and 17.

Even if you make it a co-ed league, so anybody can qualify, you run the risk of the league lacking funding AND lacking the proper number of participates.

Im just thinking of alternatives *shrug*

 

[BrotherFease]

Im just thinking of alternatives *shrug*

I am struggling with an alternative solution as well. We might just have to say transgender women/girls have to compete on the boys side for high school and college athletics.

 

[maquiscat]

@BrotherFease I did respond to your question about ability. Did you miss it, are still digesting it, or have no response? No snark intended. You replied to a later of mine, so I wasn't sure.

 

[BrotherFease]

I'll take a stab at the others, but boxing might be a real good example. Tell me, what is the difference between a women hit with 100 lb of force by another woman, and being hit with 100 ls of force by a man? Is there a difference? Does one's ability to withstand a given amount of force in a blow make a difference? Number is made up for example's sake, and if unrealistic, then substitute in any given reasonable number.

Interesting. Maybe the great compromise would be to divide based on weight class, height (basketball), or group based on common results.

My apologies for the delay. I did not see your response.

 

[Lisa]

I didn't say anyone was a deviant. I said so called gender identity science you're talking about is similar to astrology.

Yet here you are being triggered

It's as legitimate as astrology.

 

[CLAX1911]

Tell me again how you're not triggered wow posting things that clearly Express how triggered you are.

I'm not here to stir any pots. I'm here to combat gaslighting. To show people they don't have to believe you're astrology crap and how they can stand up to it.

 

[Lisa]

Tell me again how you're not triggered wow posting things that clearly Express how triggered you are.

I'm not here to stir any pots. I'm here to combat gaslighting. To show people they don't have to believe you're astrology crap and how they can stand up to it.

Conspiracy Theories

Secret plots, UFO's, area 51, alternative histories, media paranoia, 911 truthers, assassinations and X-Files.

debatepolitics.com

 

[CLAX1911]

Conspiracy Theories

Secret plots, UFO's, area 51, alternative histories, media paranoia, 911 truthers, assassinations and X-Files.

debatepolitics.com

I'm not the one making up concepts like gender identity and pretending that they are real.

 

[Lisa]

I'm not the one making up concepts like gender identity and pretending that they are real.

I didn't make up anything because I'm not a Dr or psychologist.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It is important to listen to both sides of the argument. Oliver is essentially arguing we should have debate based on good faith and being respectful.

Misgendering people, lying to the public, and telling erroneous stats isn't the way to go.

Also, there are states which ban transgender males from men's competitions, even though there's no biological competitive advantages.


I agree. Broad bans without context are bad. There is no such thing as equality in sports. That is the point -- it is uneven. Nobody has ever complained about Michael Phelps in swimming. He was born with webbed feet, this gives him a major advantage in swimming.

That is not the same thing as a biological advantage due to your sex at birth. For example, over 1700 men have ran a 4 minute mile. There has never been a woman in history to do so.

It’s an issue of fairness. A trans woman in women’s sports is unfair to biological women. Period. To make the trans rights debate about trans women in women’s sports is not only politically stupid, it’s terrible for trans people because it gives MAGA bigots a winning issue.

You cannot effectively fight for the rights of under represented minorities if you don’t have the good sense to pick your battles.

 

[Phys251]

That is not the same thing as a biological advantage due to your sex at birth. For example, over 1700 men have ran a 4 minute mile. There has never been a woman in history to do so.

It’s an issue of fairness. A trans woman in women’s sports is unfair to biological women. Period. To make the trans rights debate about trans women in women’s sports is not only politically stupid, it’s terrible for trans people because it gives MAGA bigots a winning issue.

You cannot effectively fight for the rights of under represented minorities if you don’t have the good sense to pick your battles.

Trans women in sports are rare enough that sports governing bodies can effectively set regulations on how to deal with them. We don't need the Genital Obsessed Party making blanket rules here.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Trans women in sports are rare enough that sports governing bodies can effectively set regulations on how to deal with them. We don't need the Genital Obsessed Party making blanket rules here.

It’s a winning issue for them when we are stupid enough to get baited into fighting them on it. They are baiting us into fighting on the side of unfairness and we are stupid enough to fall for it.

The real fight should be about fundamental rights for trans people, which is a losing issue for MAGA. So quit making the fight about what they want it to be.

 

[Phys251]

It’s a winning issue for them when we are stupid enough to get baited into fighting them on it. They are baiting us into fighting on the side of unfairness and we are stupid enough to fall for it.

So we should take the Kamala Harris approach and say virtually nothing on the matter?

The real fight should be about fundamental rights for trans people, which is a losing issue for MAGA. So quit making the fight about what they want it to be.

They're going to bring that fight to us. That's how they are. We need to be able to deflect it and get to the more important issues.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

So we should take the Kamala Harris approach and say virtually nothing on the matter?



They're going to bring that fight to us. That's how they are. We need to be able to deflect it and get to the more important issues.

Harris didn’t keep her mouth shut on it, that is the point. She gave that dumb ass interview where she pledged taxpayer funds for transitioning surgeries for federal inmates and illegal immigrants. The Trump team took the footage and turned it into the most effective negative ad in history. Stop Giving MAGA what they want! No one on earth has ****ed over trans people more than Kamala Harris when she gave that interview. Quit getting baited into fighting the fight bigots want you to fight.

 

[Phys251]

Harris didn’t keep her mouth shut on it, that is the point.

On trans women in sports, yeah, she did.

She gave that dumb ass interview where she pledged taxpayer funds for transitioning surgeries for federal inmates and illegal immigrants. The Trump team took the footage and turned it into the most effective negative ad in history. Stop Giving MAGA what they want! No one on earth has ****ed over trans people more than Kamala Harris when she gave that interview. Quit getting baited into fighting the fight bigots want you to fight.

The righties say that the economy and immigration were their top issues, yet you and I know that to be bunk. The MSM needed a cover story for the right's hatred and found it straight from right-wing media. If the MSM had properly reported that racial and transgender angst were top issues for the right--WHICH THEY ****ING WERE--who knows how the election might have turned out.

 

[CLAX1911]

I didn't make up anything because I'm not a Dr or psychologist.

Well if it's in an eight neurological thing then it's birth defect. If it's not it's a psychological disorder.

You're on the birth defect side I disagree I think it's more along the lines of a psychological disorder.