John Oliver on Transgender Females in Women's Sports

[BrotherFease]

This is why you make it divisions based on ability instead of sex/gender. And, if all that opponents say is true, that would cause most of the trans women to be in direct competition with cis men, and most of the cis women to still be in a division of their own. But no one can call sexual discrimination because it's not based on sex. And if a given cis woman can compete with cis men on a given level, then there is no reason not to let her.

I do not really think that would solve "the problem". It's a culture war issue, designed to distract the gullible. You're basically asking sports to be divided out, like high school and college wrestling.

How exactly would this work? Is it based on height, weight?

 

[maquiscat]

I do not really think that would solve "the problem". It's a culture war issue, designed to distract the gullible. You're basically asking sports to be divided out, like high school and college wrestling.

How exactly would this work? Is it based on height, weight?

I did say ability. beyond that it would need experts in the sports to determine that, and each sport would probably have different criteria.

 

[Argent]

they would call the pro abortion crowd, murders.

Did a quick search, no state has passed a law that would prosecute anyone for abortion but there are a few who are considering it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Did a quick search, no state has passed a law that would prosecute anyone for abortion but there are a few who are considering it.

I was speaking of what the religious people claim. Not the law.

 

[BrotherFease]

I did say ability. beyond that it would need experts in the sports to determine that, and each sport would probably have different criteria.

I am not sure what you mean by ability.

Lets take some sports:

Running
Soccer
Swimming
Wrestling
Tennis

Would would you divide based on ability?

 

[Argent]

I was speaking of what the religious people claim. Not the law.

They're free to believe and claim what they want.

 

[Lisa]

Ignoring the inconvenient facts of a different bone geometry and density. Hormones can suppress the rest, but the geometry of the hips are a fact.

Hormones can change the shape of their hips. It also changes the tilt of a persons hips, especially if they are started when the person is still growing.

 

[Gordy327]

They're free to believe and claim what they want.

No matter how absurd or irrational it may be.

 

[CLAX1911]

Not sure that's the source of your confusion.

Calling a male a female is gaslighting

 

[Juin]

I love John Oliver. I do, he's great.
This is a tiny, tiny problem. Not to say it isn't important. But it affects maybe 50 kids.

If a Mike Tyson heavy weight boxes in the bantam weight category would that be a tiny tiny problem?

This issue should be addressed by the rules committee of the sport. Just make a rule.

There is already a rule. The category is for women

If you have a penis and testicles you can't play women's sports. Otherwise why have women's sports? Do we need to check every athlete's testosterone level before the kid plays JV basketball? It's crazy.

Agree

 

[Juin]

It is important to listen to both sides of the argument. Oliver is essentially arguing we should have debate based on good faith and being respectful.
Misgendering people, lying to the public, and telling erroneous stats isn't the way to go.

Who's lying here? Oliver is basically asking us not to believe our lyn eyes; that the man we see is really a woman

 

[Lisa]

Calling a male a female is gaslighting

Would that be a transfemale or a cisgender male that you are referring to?

 

[CLAX1911]

Would that be a transfemale or a cisgender male that you are referring to?

When I refer to male or female it's strictly sex. I don't need to use the same words to describe something else because I'm not trying to lie about it.

 

[Juin]

One of the main examples Oliver presented was a transgender girl playing on the girls softball team in Ohio. This girl never hit a home run before, and her own mother called her mediocre. It turns out that the Ohio legislative branch had a major problem with her playing on the softball team, and passed legislation, just to kick her off the team. Who actually wins here?

Maybe men should compete against women if they promise to be mediocre

 

[Juin]

Won't stop MAGAs from believing misinformation and running around with their hair on fire over it.

Misinformation like claiming a man can take hormones and morph into a woman?

 

[Lisa]

When I refer to male or female it's strictly sex. I don't need to use the same words to describe something else because I'm not trying to lie about it.

So you are admitting that you willfully deny the facts of gender identity, which is hilariously ironic coming from a gay male. Why should anyone bother to reply to you when you publicly reject 70 years of medical science? Your arguments are no more absurd and denialist than creationists or flat-earthers.

 

[BrotherFease]

Who's lying here? Oliver is basically asking us not to believe our lyn eyes; that the man we see is really a woman

Not sure if I understand your point.

What are our eyes seeing?

 

[CLAX1911]

So you are admitting that you willfully deny the facts of gender identity,

There are no facts regarding this it's the equivalent to astrology.

which is hilariously ironic coming from a gay male.

Why does being gay mean you don't understand what male and female is I think you'd have to know that in order to be gay.

Or is it because this insanity is smashed into the LGBT whether they like it or not?

Why should anyone bother to reply to you when you publicly reject 70 years of medical science?

It's as much science as astrology is. I think you respond to me because you are triggered I'm telling the truth and you know it and you don't like it

Your arguments are no more absurd and denialist than creationists or flat-earthers.

You're the one arguing that astrology is science.

 

[Juin]

Maybe fewer girls want to play organized sports? Gymnastics is big for girls but it's almost all private gyms. The sport with the most injuries per participant is cheerleading. The USWNT turned soccer into a big deal for boys and girls. I watched a series on how the amazingly successful women's team was paid far less than the God-awful men's team. They went on strike. It was a huge deal.

The USWNT has been one of the greatest success stories of our time. Maybe it is time to release a few males who washed out of the mens into the USWNT. They will simply become unbeatable. That is unless the Argentinians and Brazilians also introduce a few of their own male washouts into the womens teams

 

[maquiscat]

I am not sure what you mean by ability.

I'll take a stab at the others, but boxing might be a real good example. Tell me, what is the difference between a women hit with 100 lb of force by another woman, and being hit with 100 ls of force by a man? Is there a difference? Does one's ability to withstand a given amount of force in a blow make a difference? Number is made up for example's sake, and if unrealistic, then substitute in any given reasonable number.

Running
Swimming

Women already do better in long term endurance races to start with. However, have qualifying runs where people who fall within a given range for the distance compete against each other. Sex doesn't have to be the factor there.

Soccer
Tennis

There is more to these sports than I would be able to analyze for such. This is definitely where the experts should come in. I'm going to doubt any such exist on this forum, save the arm chair experts we hear from too often.

Wrestling

This would probably run along the same line as boxing. If you have two people of equal strength, then it all comes down to skill. Granted, with sufficient skill, one can defeat a stronger opponent, within a reasonable range. And if a person wants to challenge up a level, they should be allowed, whereas one should never be allowed to challenge down, which is not the same as accepting such from below.

Granted that some sports should not be divided at all. Did you know that skeet shooting in the olympics used to be a mixed sport, until 1992 when a woman won the gold, and then suddenly women were not allowed to compete until the 2000 Olympics in their own separate category?

Again, I want you to keep in mind that I am not saying that a given women is likely to beat a given man, or female and male if you prefer, in many sports, although there are many in which there is no difference. I am saying that by making a different criteria other than sex/gender, we will have a natural separation of the sexes (regardless of gender), while also allowing for any exceptions to compete with others on an equal playing field.

 

[Juin]

Not only does gender identity exist, it can be imagined in our brains via an MRI scan.

Brain Scanning Shows That Gender and Sex Are Different

<div><p paraid="722623838" paraeid="{bfc5b879-a5a3-4700-8210-a2a6072480c4}{170}">Even though as a society, we debate how to treat a person’s sex and gender, research suggests the two use distinct communication networks in the brain. Sex divides us into male and female groups based on our biology...

www.utmb.edu

Your article does not appear to back what you claim:

<<<
Machine learning analyzed the results and while it could accurately predict the sex assigned at birth, it had a harder time determining gender.
<<<

 

[Lisa]

There are no facts regarding this it's the equivalent to astrology.

Why does being gay mean you don't understand what male and female is I think you'd have to know that in order to be gay.

60 years ago gays were considered to be deviants and perverts, but since then there is science too understand sexual orientation, just as the science supports the existence of gender identity.

Or is it because this insanity is smashed into the LGBT whether they like it or not?

It's as much science as astrology is. I think you respond to me because you are triggered I'm telling the truth and you know it and you don't like it

You don't trigger anyone.

You're the one arguing that astrology is science.

The genetics and hormonal basis of human gender identity - PMC

Gender identity refers to one's psychological sense of their own gender. Establishing gender identity is a complex phenomenon, and the diversity of gender expression challenges simplistic or unified explanations. For this reason, the extent to which ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Juin]

As noted in the video, if your arguments are based on false and misleading information, it's not a productive debate or conversation.

The primary falsehood is the claim that a man can morph into a woman

 

[Lisa]

Your article does not appear to back what you claim:

<<<
Machine learning analyzed the results and while it could accurately predict the sex assigned at birth, it had a harder time determining gender.
<<<

The neurobiology is still very early and developing quickly. It does not say that gender identity does not exist.

 

[Juin]

I'll take a stab at the others, but boxing might be a real good example. Tell me, what is the difference between a women hit with 100 lb of force by another woman, and being hit with 100 ls of force by a man? Is there a difference? Does one's ability to withstand a given amount of force in a blow make a difference? Number is made up for example's sake, and if unrealistic, then substitute in any given reasonable number.

That is a bad example. Boxing is about what ibs of force a given weight can deliver. On the average a 100 pound male will deliver a greater pounds of force than a 100 pound female