John Oliver on Transgender Females in Women's Sports

[BrotherFease]

First, I am sorry to say, transgender males playing against women is just wrong. They need their own category.

You cannot really create their own category. Most states have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes total. The President of the NCAA says there are about 500k student athletes and less than 10 of them are transgender.

A better argument would be about more co-ed sports leagues.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

You cannot really create their own category. Most states have between 0 to 5 transgender athletes total. The President of the NCAA says there are about 500k student athletes and less than 10 of them are transgender.

A better argument would be about more co-ed sports leagues.

I also said.............

but there needs to be a civil discussion on how to handle that.

Right now both sides are dug in and just calling the other side names.
Meanwhile, I also said.............

This is a personal view, not a political one.

 

[Phys251]

I also said.............

Right now both sides are dug in and just calling the other side names.
Meanwhile, I also said.............

Word choice matters.

 

[BrotherFease]

Word choice matters.

Yep. We want to be respectful to both sides of the coin. Oliver himself endorsed restrictions and compromise in his piece. A third category would make a lot of sense because we have non-binary, intersex, and transgender people who cannot fulfill the hormonal requirement. You also have people who failed to make the men's and women's team and still want to play competitive basketball, softball, and so forth. That's an idea we should float around. The issue itself as @SNOWFLAKE and others have pointed out, has become too political.

 

[noonereal]

The issue itself as @SNOWFLAKE and others have pointed out, has become too political.

Trump very successful weaponized it.

 

[Phys251]

Yep. We want to be respectful to both sides of the coin. Oliver himself endorsed restrictions and compromise in his piece. A third category would make a lot of sense because we have non-binary, intersex, and transgender people who cannot fulfill the hormonal requirement. You also have people who failed to make the men's and women's team and still want to play competitive basketball, softball, and so forth. That's an idea we should float around. The issue itself as @SNOWFLAKE and others have pointed out, has become too political.

I haven't watched the video yet, but trans athletes are so few in number that they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. We do not need the government stepping in here.

 

[BrotherFease]

Trump very successful weaponized it.

And the Christian Right.

Like I said before, I think having an open or co-ed category might be a great compromise.

 

[noonereal]

And the Christian Right.

Like I said before, I think having an open or co-ed category might be a great compromise.

You'll never get enough interest for it to work.

 

[Lisa]

Trump very successful weaponized it.

Mostly because one third of Americans are morons with no knowledge of science beyond elementary school, and are religious busybodies who reject logic. We refer to them as MAGAs.

 

[CLAX1911]

I just watched the entire 42 minute segment. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Please note: It is worth your time. My posts will not be as detailed as John Oliver.

Oliver's Main Points:
- Transgender females do not transition just so they can play on the female sports team. Most organizations permitting transgender females have hormonal requirements.

- All of the scientific studies of transgender females in sports have a small sample size and feature unreliable data.

- The opponents of transgender females in women's sports consistently exaggerate and mislead people.

- Riley Gaines tied Lia Thomas in a swimming competition for fifth place, and then got "embarrassed" because she wasn't allowed to stand on the 5th place podium for a photo op. After she tied for fifth, she decided to use Thomas as a means to get wealthy. If Gaines didn't tie Thomas, she would have gone to dental school.

- Lia Thomas placed 1st, 8th, and 5th in the national swimming competitions. Even she didn't dominate all of her events.

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

- There was a complaint filed against a transgender female San Jose State player for having an 80 mile per hour spike speed. It turns out it was only 50 miles per hour, which wasn't even near the record-holders or the fastest in the Mountain West Conference.

- No transgender females have won any scholarships to any university. In the case of the two Connecticut transgender runners, the complaint was that they stole scholarship opportunity from the other competitors, when the reverse was true.

- The number of transgender females in sports is very very small. Not every transgender female who competes, wins medals or races. States who tried to ban transgender females from women's sports fail to show any example of a transgender female dominating a single female sport within their state.

- The Right loves to use the "800 medals" stat in discussions and political debate. They claim it came from the U.N. It turns out it did not actually come from the UN, but a website which asked people submit competitions from across the world, where a transgender female beat a genetic female in an event. These events includes poker and Irish dancing. Plus, the metal counts feature duplication of events and counting a first place finish as three medals. Some of the examples submitted feature people who do not object to transgender females in women's sports.

- The debate isn't really about "fairness". Women's sports are extremely underfunded and feature poor quality fields. The Right's main objection is to deny transgender people their right to exist, and sports is their avenue for success. They do not care about women's sports or their safety.

- Youth sports are fine. They are about social development. Professional sports we need to look more into the impact.

I'll give you the correct Cliff notes version John Oliver would like always makes a bunch of claims and they're absolutely false.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Are you being sarcastic here or do you really believe that?

"In her career, Rhode has won three golds, one silver and two bronzes. She is the only athlete ever to win Olympic medals in all three shooting disciplines (trap, double trap and skeet) since making her Olympic debut and winning the double trap gold at Atlanta 1996 as a 17-year-old."

Shooter Kim Rhode was the first woman to win medals in six consecutive Olympics | USOPMuseum

Kim Rhode achieved Olympic history in women’s skeet shooting, becoming the first woman and first summer Olympian to medal in six consecutive Olympics.

usopm.org

Do you know what happened to her after she beat a bunch of men?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Bingo. There's a big problem with fairness with women's sports. It's not genetic males beating genetic females. It's about how much society doesn't really care about girls sports in general. The Ohio state legislative branch voted to ban transgender females solely to kick out a softball player who cannot hit home runs. She is playing because it's fun and gets to socialize with the other girls. Their main priority wasn't about the quality of the fields or equipment, but that a genetic male was playing softball. That pretty much sums up the problem with the debate.

It's never about providing equality when it comes to women's sports. Every single time it's been about suppressing women and keeping them in their place.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Maybe fewer girls want to play organized sports? Gymnastics is big for girls but it's almost all private gyms. The sport with the most injuries per participant is cheerleading. The USWNT turned soccer into a big deal for boys and girls. I watched a series on how the amazingly successful women's team was paid far less than the God-awful men's team. They went on strike. It was a huge deal.

Fewer girls want to play sports because their bodies are so sexualized as children. Or at least better question to ask, why do fewer girls want to play organized sports if everything is equal?

 

[CLAX1911]

I love John Oliver. I do, he's great.

His antics and expressions are for me the comedy.

This is a tiny, tiny problem. Not to say it isn't important. But it affects maybe 50 kids.

Weather in effects 50 kids or three kids and that's who it affects now. Before it was 30 kids and before that it was three kids.

This issue should be addressed by the rules committee of the sport. Just make a rule.

Within a private League yes.

If you have a penis and testicles you can't play women's sports. Otherwise why have women's sports? Do we need to check every athlete's testosterone level before the kid plays JV basketball? It's crazy.

Further this doesn't mean that you can't play sports at all. Remember there is no boys or men's teams. There doesn't need to be. There are no rules against women or girls competing in them.

That's not fair? Life ain't fair. Everyone has handicaps. I was great field/no hit, didn't make the team. Allergic to chlorine? No swim team for you. Have a **** and balls? No chick sports.

I would say this doesn't apply here because you can participate in sports even if you're trans woman. What you shouldn't be allowed to do is use women's teams to affirm your transition what this is going to do is make people say that such a person is a man. And I would argue most trans women don't participate in sports. It's going to affect them too. If it's okay to call it transforming powerlifter a man because she's lifting 200 more kilograms than the second place powerlifter. People think it's okay to call the barista that serves your coffee or the clerk at the bank a man or a woman despite their transition.

The whole thing's crazy.

I really think there's a push to say there is no difference between trans women and women and if there wasn't why would we call trans women trans.

This being said. The above comments I made about trans women/girls participating in women's sports is going to be used by people who are simply bigoted against it. Just because that happens doesn't mean that everyone who makes this criticism is bigoted. If it's coming from a place of trans women are biologically different than women and women's sports was created to give them a place where they didn't have to compete with men then trans women should play on the open leagues also known as the men's league. If it comes from the place of these people are gross and we should treat them poorly absolutely not.

 

[CLAX1911]

Fewer girls want to play sports because their bodies are so sexualized as children.

Is that why I I'm not sure about that one. I figured maybe it's because boys and girls are different. Boys play differently than girls this includes things like teamwork.

Or at least better question to ask, why do fewer girls want to play organized sports if everything is equal?

My guess is they don't like getting dirty. Some girls do not have a problem with it. Just the case with the boys too but the dynamic are shifted.

 

[Aristaeus]

"In her career, Rhode has won three golds, one silver and two bronzes. She is the only athlete ever to win Olympic medals in all three shooting disciplines (trap, double trap and skeet) since making her Olympic debut and winning the double trap gold at Atlanta 1996 as a 17-year-old."

Shooter Kim Rhode was the first woman to win medals in six consecutive Olympics | USOPMuseum

Kim Rhode achieved Olympic history in women’s skeet shooting, becoming the first woman and first summer Olympian to medal in six consecutive Olympics.

usopm.org

Do you know what happened to her after she beat a bunch of men?

What does that have to do with your claim that women's sports was created because women kept beating men?

 

[CLAX1911]

And the Christian Right.

Like I said before, I think having an open or co-ed category might be a great compromise.

Well you haven't opened or coed category and women's sports those are the only two categories.

There is not men's sports. It technically is an open or coed category because there's not any rules against women competing.

It's just that the nature of human dimorphism means that the open category is dominated by men.

 

[CLAX1911]

You'll never get enough interest for it to work.

That's all people watch that's the NBA there is no MNBA. When they're looking for players and tryouts women don't even bother because even at their peak they're not going to be competitive with the men.

As far as I can tell there is no rule in the NBA that says it's only men that can play.

 

[noonereal]

far as I can tell there is no rule in the NBA that says it's only men that can play.

There is none. Same with all major sports.
This is why women's sports were created.
Women just can't keep up with men athletically.

 

[Sweden]

There is none. Same with all major sports.
This is why women's sports were created.
Women just can't keep up with men athletically.

I'm following the annual women's rugby Six Nations tournament under way in England France Scotland Ireland Italy and Wales. To let biological men compete would be grossly unfair as well as dangerous.

 

[Lisa]

I'm following the annual women's rugby Six Nations tournament under way in England France Scotland Ireland Italy and Wales. To let biological men compete would be grossly unfair as well as dangerous.

Would those people be cisgender males, or would they be trans-females who started their transition as a teen with HRT, so they never expeinced puberty as a male? There is a vast difference that needs to be understood.

 

[Gatsby]

I just watched the entire 42 minute segment. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Please note: It is worth your time.

It's not, actually. One of his worst takes to date, and his own audience seems to agree. Of his 379 episodes, it's currently sitting at #336 by ratings on IMDB.

- Transgender females do not transition just so they can play on the female sports team. Most organizations permitting transgender females have hormonal requirements.

No one cares why they transition. Not everything is about them. Why would the women deprived of athletic opportunities care whether this person did it just for athletics or because they genuinely think they are a woman?

- All of the scientific studies of transgender females in sports have a small sample size and feature unreliable data.

Yup, that's an argument for banning men from women's sports. I agree.

- The opponents of transgender females in women's sports consistently exaggerate and mislead people.

Vague ad hominem.

- Riley Gaines tied Lia Thomas in a swimming competition for fifth place, and then got "embarrassed" because she wasn't allowed to stand on the 5th place podium for a photo op. After she tied for fifth, she decided to use Thomas as a means to get wealthy. If Gaines didn't tie Thomas, she would have gone to dental school.

Who cares about the motivations of either of these people? Lia Thomas is a man.

- Lia Thomas placed 1st, 8th, and 5th in the national swimming competitions. Even she didn't dominate all of her events.

Uhh that sure sounds like dominating the events to me, but ymmv. Especially since he was mediocre in men's sports.

- Payton McNabb got a concussion after a transgender female spiked a volleyball in her face. But it turns out, her sporting career wasn't over and turned into a great athlete in college.

"I didn't hit her *that* hard" is a wild argument IN FAVOR of letting men into women's sports.

- Concussions and head injuries happen all the time in sports.

All the more reason not to have female athletes compete against men who can cause them.

- There was a complaint filed against a transgender female San Jose State player for having an 80 mile per hour spike speed. It turns out it was only 50 miles per hour, which wasn't even near the record-holders or the fastest in the Mountain West Conference.

The fact that many of these men suck as athletes does not justify them competing against women.

- The number of transgender females in sports is very very small. Not every transgender female who competes, wins medals or races. States who tried to ban transgender females from women's sports fail to show any example of a transgender female dominating a single female sport within their state.

Great, then banning men from women's sports will affect a very small number of people and there's no reason to oppose it.

- The Right loves to use the "800 medals" stat in discussions and political debate.

John Oliver is waving the partisan flag instead of defending his position.

- The debate isn't really about "fairness". Women's sports are extremely underfunded and feature poor quality fields.

Then let's fund them better...that has nothing to do with this issue, aside from the fact that the women's league will become the women's league in name only, and actual women's sports will receive no funding at all.

- Youth sports are fine. They are about social development. Professional sports we need to look more into the impact.

If John Oliver wants to play in an intramural coed league for social development, that's fine. But boys have a physical advantage over girls by the time puberty hits, and it's not fair to women/girls. "Calm down, sweetheart, don't worry your pretty little head about fairness and just enjoy the social development" is not an acceptable solution.

Totally absent from John Oliver's ridiculous screed is any argument whatsoever in favor of allowing men to compete in women's sports. It's pretty remarkable that he could rant about this for the better part of an hour, and never even put forth a single rationale why this is good. He didn't even offer up a bad, misguided rationale...he made no effort whatsoever.

 

[CLAX1911]

Would those people be cisgender males, or would they be trans-females who started their transition as a teen with HRT, so they never expeinced puberty as a male? There is a vast difference that needs to be understood.

It wouldn't be the latter because much of Europe has decided transitioning before puberty it's detrimental and therefore not allowed.

 

[CLAX1911]

There is none. Same with all major sports.

So why can't trans women playing those

This is why women's sports were created.
Women just can't keep up with men athletically.

So then there shouldnt be men who identify as women in women's sports

 

[Lisa]

It wouldn't be the latter because much of Europe has decided transitioning before puberty it's detrimental and therefore not allowed.

Tell me about children transitioning before puberty begins, if you think that you know so much more.

I cant wait for the laughs.