It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

[Grim17]

As a conservative, I am sick and tired of all the baseless accusations of racism that have been leveled against fellow conservatives, republican and members of the Tea Party since Obama began campaigning for president back in 2006. I know this is politics, but racism is a very serious accusations that can have devastating, even life altering consequences that go way beyond politics. It's time for people to honestly evaluate things, and stop using the label "racism" where it simply doesn't apply.

There is a very distinct difference between something that demonstrates "racism" and something that is "racially insensitive", just as there is a difference between "racially insensitive" and innocent or factual motions of race. What's happened in recent years is there's been some politically motivated, large scale "blurring of the lines" going on between all three of those that's gotten way out of hand. It's gotten so bad, that even mentioning race in a normal, innocent conversation can get someone branded a racist. Well it's time bring this to end by exposing it for the lie that it is, and all it will take is applying the facts to a little simple logic...

Racism isn't some abstract philosophical concept, but a very real, narrowly defined human belief that when displayed, has very specific characteristics.

From Dictionary.com:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.​

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.​

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
​

From freedictionary. com:

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.​

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.​

There are plenty of other sources, but they all say generally the same thing... Now I hope everyone is clear on what racism is and understands that for a statement that someone makes, or the words/depictions on a picket sign to be deemed as an example of "racism", it must fully conform to at least one of the definitions above. If it doesn't, then what your left with is something that could possibly be seen as "racially insensitive", but can not be labeled as racist.

Something that is "Racially insensitive", is something that is factual and/or isn't racially derogatory that either wasn't designed, or wasn't intended to be, racially offensive, that offends at least some members of a certain race. It falls under the category of a "dumb" or "rude" comment, that doesn't have the elements of discrimination, prejudice, or racial hatred that define racism.

The difference between "racist or racism" and "racially insensitive" are clear and unmistakable. Just because a racist will be racially insensitive... Doesn't mean that being racially insensitive, makes someone a racist.




Here are a few examples to analyze:

The authors quote Reid as saying privately that Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
CNN

Mr. Obama was "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
...Joe Biden, 2007

Both without a doubt, were racially insensitive "big time" . Both however, were stated in a factual context and not said in a derogatory manner, therefore neither can be labeled as racism.

On Sunday, Limbaugh said, "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. ... There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."
...ESPN controversy

Again, racially insensitive "big time". To me, this was the stupidest thing that ever came out of Rush Limbaugh's mouth. He brought his anti-political correctness and anti-media views from his radio show into a sports forum, where they where completely inappropriate. However, his assessment of McNabb was based on his stats and performance, not his race, and speculated that race might have played a part in the medias actions toward McNabb, since his performance didn't seem to warrant the level of attention he was receiving. His criticism wasn't of black people, it was of the media. Since black quarterbacks were very rare back then, especially ones that were on a superbowl caliber team, his comments had some justification... but since they are common in the NFL today, if he or anyone else were to make the same comment now, it would have no factual basis to support it, and therefore could only be seen as rooted in an racial animosity. Stupid, yes... Racist, no.


Racism = Obama is America's first black president, and that's why I won't vote for him.
Racially insensitive = Obama is America's first black president, and a complete failure.
Innocuous = Obama is America's first black president, and likes to play basketball at the White House.

The bottom line is, we have a president who is probably the most liberal president America has ever had... presiding over the worse economy since post WWI... with an unemployment rate that sky rocketed when he took office and has never gone down... who's policies have failed to stimulate job creation... that's presiding over a record national debt that threatens to bankrupt the nation... who in spite of that debt, passed the largest spending bill in American history and did so with almost no republican support... who has spent and borrowed more money than any president in history... who enacted the largest social program in American history in spite of public outrage and unanimous republican opposition... Who's environmental policies treaten to create more financial hardship... who is against drilling for oil domestically which would lower fuel prices and create thousands of jobs.... and who also happens to be America's first black president...

With all that, it amazes me how anyone could think for a minute, that all opposition and protests against Obama by conservatives, republicans and members of the Tea Party, is centered around racism.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but now that the lines between what constitutes racism and what doesn't have been cleared up, don't you think it's time to do what's honest, rather than what works best politically?

 

[celticwar17]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

It just seems like such a bad scapegoat, sometimes, it really bothers me to wonder if their is an underlying reason why people are so quick to assume racism.

I don't understand why random celebrities, the Black Caucus, and everyone else that does(I've just seen it the most from those two, publicly) thinks the Tea Party as racist.
Its just soooooooo far off from the values and philosophies its not even funny. There is either a serious misunderstanding of cultural values between various populations of America or they are all just a******s just trying to score some emotional/political points to people that are very racially sensitive(or even racially seclusive).

 

[Jetboogieman]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Oh Grim! How badly you fail.

Only the hacks of both sides actually make accusations of racism... and they shouldn't bother you. You give credence to their claims when you cry like a baby over it. There's nothing racist about critisizing the presidents policies... and that's what any sane minded, liberal or conservative thinks.

So let me ask you this... is it racism when Glenn Beck says Obama hates White People and the White Culture?

 

[poweRob]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

"probably the most liberal president America has ever had"...


uber LAWLS.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

So many on all sides just can't wait to be offended.

 

[celticwar17]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

So let me ask you this... is it racism when Glenn Beck says Obama hates White People and the White Culture?

Not racism, but probably insensitive.

Beck has a habit of not being careful of his words.

But if you wan to go all the way back to that instance I will...

At the time they were talking about Obama's history with the rowdy african priest that he was friends with and attended to for long periods of time, and that story where Obama jumped the conclusions on the white policeman in the Gates fiasco. And his various connections of people that are racist in his lifetime.

Obama isn't a racist, but he does give people like Glenn Beck some easy ammo.


personally I don't like either one's attitude/history when it comes to these issues. At least obama isn't playing the race card himself


To Grims point, this instance does not go to the level of racism. But an arguable small hint of prejudice from Obama with the Gates situation.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Racism is dead as a mainstream feeling, everyone needs to realize it, admit it, and move on. If someone is upsetting you, its probably for a different reason than racism.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Racism is dead as a mainstream feeling, everyone needs to realize it, admit it, and move on. If someone is upsetting you, its probably for a different reason than racism.

Probably class Warfare

 

[Your Star]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

"probably the most liberal president America has ever had"...


uber LAWLS.

I wish :lol:

 

[Your Star]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Oh Grim! How badly you fail.

Only the hacks of both sides actually make accusations of racism... and they shouldn't bother you. You give credence to their claims when you cry like a baby over it. There's nothing racist about critisizing the presidents policies... and that's what any sane minded, liberal or conservative thinks.

So let me ask you this... is it racism when Glenn Beck says Obama hates White People and the White Culture?

Of course not Jet, he's not a liberal

 

[Thrilla]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

without the race card to play, political hacks of all stripes would actually have to put their brains to work.... and ,really, I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever.

Obama may very well be the most liberal President the world has ever seen... in his own mind ( i don't believe that)
but in the real world, he's a Weeble.. he wobbles left and right, to and fro, but never falls down .

 

[Thrilla]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Of course not Jet, he's not a liberal

technically speaking, it's not racism on Beck's part... it's speculation/assumption that the President is racist.

 

[Pinkie]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

It's naive and willfully ignorant to pretend racism in America is over. It's naive to pretend this hasn't enjoyed a new audience as the first black president we've ever had presides over the worst economy in our lifetimes. (Not the worst since WW I.....history is your friend. This is not as bad as the Great Depression.)

No thinking person believes every criticism of Obama is veiled racism. That's preposterous. But so is pretending that NONE of them are.

 

[Grim17]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Oh Grim! How badly you fail.

Only the hacks of both sides actually make accusations of racism... and they shouldn't bother you. You give credence to their claims when you cry like a baby over it. There's nothing racist about critisizing the presidents policies... and that's what any sane minded, liberal or conservative thinks.

You're entitled to your opinion about my post, but you're not, nor is anyone else, entitled to redefine racism. The people who constantly do so, are the ones I'm addressing.

So let me ask you this... is it racism when Glenn Beck says Obama hates White People and the White Culture?

Absolutely not. Did you not understand my post at all? Did you not understand what the definition of racism is?

Labeling Glenn Beck's comments "racism" would be the same as me labeling the comments of any non-white who calls the Tea Party racist, as "racism". Here's what he said:

"the president has exposed himself as a guy who over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture. I don't know what it is..." and "I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem...This guy I believe, a racist."​

Now does that fit the definition of racism? The answer is, "no" it doesn't. What he said was based on a specific incident ("the Cambridge police acted stupidly") combined with his upbringing and the people and organizations he associated with throughout his adult life. They were not said based on any of the defined aspects that constitute racism.

What Beck did, was exactly the same as many on the left have done with the Tea Party and it was just plain wrong. When he apologized, he even expressed that on Fox News Sunday:

Wallace: "Do you regret having called [Obama] a racist and saying he had a deep seated hatred for white people?"

Beck: "Of course I do. I don't want to retract the, um ... I want to amend that I think it is much more of a theological question, that he is a guy who understands the world through liberation theology, which is oppressor-and-victim. 'Racist,' first of all, it shouldn't have been said. It was poorly said. I have a big fat mouth sometimes and I say things. That's just not the way people should behave. And it was not accurate. It is liberation theology that has shaped his world view."

​

Get it?

Anyone can have the opinion that a person or group of people are, or might be, racist. But you do not run around making such serious accusations in public, unless those who you have accused have committed an act that meets the definition of "racism". That is exactly what Glenn Beck did, and exactly what many liberal bloggers, journalists, celebrities, pundits and people on this forum have done over and over again. The only difference is, Beck apologized and retracted what he said, and I can't recall ever hearing that from those on the left guilty of the same.

Beck didn't just say "I'm sorry", he expressed exactly why he was sorry and exactly why what he said was wrong.

 

[Deuce]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Grim, one does not have to outright say "X race is superior" to be acting on racist impulses.

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

-Lee Atwater

It's much less conscious today, but it's still there.

Counterpoint: You say I shouldn't run around making these accusations when there hasn't been an action that fits the definition.
Why, then, do you see it as ok to call the president a Marxist, socialist, etc?

Incidentally, I do think some of the actions labeled racism are actually motivated by... team...ism? I.E. "Black people vote Democrat mostly, so trying to implement policies that disproportionately impact black people will disproportionately impact the Democratic party and I want to beat the Democrats."

 

[pbrauer]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Grim,

You could call me a racist all you want, I wouldn't care because i know I'm not one. You protest too much.

 

[Grim17]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Grim, one does not have to outright say "X race is superior" to be acting on racist impulses.

I understand that, but what constitutes "racism" is clearly defined and nearly all the protest signs that are branded "racist" simply don't qualify as such.

In my last post, I quoted Glenn Beck saying:

"the president has exposed himself as a guy who over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture."​

That wasn't by any means a racist statement, but it was clearly racially insensitive. Now imagine that it was David Duke who made that statement rather than Beck. Does him saying it make it a racist statement? The answer is still no, but there is a difference...

Because Duke is a documented racist, concluding that the comment was motivated by racism, and calling duke a racist, are completely justified accusations. When it comes to Beck however, nobody he's ever worked with or known personally has accused him of being a racist, of making racist remarks, of harboring racist beliefs, or acting out in a way that would suggest he is a racist... Therefore there is no justification or factual basis for accusing Beck of being a racist, nor is there justification for saying, or implying, that his statement was motivated by racism.

Do you understand my point?

Counterpoint: You say I shouldn't run around making these accusations when there hasn't been an action that fits the definition.
Why, then, do you see it as ok to call the president a Marxist, socialist, etc?

First, I don't call him either... Second, calling someone a "Marxist" or "Socialist", is a label that defines someones actual, or perceived, political beliefs. There is absolutely no comparison between false or baseless accusations of racism, and using exaggerated political or ideological labels in the realm of politics. Geez.

 

[Grim17]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Grim,

You could call me a racist all you want, I wouldn't care because i know I'm not one.

Why would I do that Pete?

You are a lot of things, but you have never demonstrated anything that would lead me to believe you are a racist.

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

We have institutionalized racism, now. Schools pushing to re-segregate. Race and sex based laws. Shoot, racism isn't gone from america...it's enforced here.

 

[Deuce]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

First, I don't call him either... Second, calling someone a "Marxist" or "Socialist", is a label that defines someones actual, or perceived, political beliefs. There is absolutely no comparison between false or baseless accusations of racism, and using exaggerated political or ideological labels in the realm of politics. Geez.

Hahahah. Ok, so perceived political beliefs make it ok to call someone a Marxist, but perceived racial motivations don't make it ok to call someone racist.

I can't "exaggerate" racially insensitive into racism, but I can exaggerate barely-****ing-liberal into SOCIALIST. Hahahahahahhahaa.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Why does it even matter if someone calls you a racist and you don't perceive yourself to be? Two people can look at the same thing and come to two different conclusions about it and neither conclusion has to be completely invalid.

I've been called a "bigot" for using the word "retard" and while I don't perceive myself as such, I understand why some people who have certain associations with the word would think differently. It's the same with racism. You can't erase people's past experiences to make them stop associating certain words, phrases and ideas with racism, so there's really no point in putting so much weight on trying to education people on "what racism really is". People have different perceptions - get over it.

 

[haymarket]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

The OP is nothing more and nothing less than one tiny plank in the right wing platform to remove the use of the word RACISM in our political discourse. Now the proper way to remove that word would be to eliminate RACISM itslef. But that is not their desire and they have no interest it. They are all about simply removing the word from the table so it cannot be applied to them and their beliefs when they express racism views on issues.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

The bottom line is, we have a president who is probably the most liberal president America has ever had... presiding over the worse economy since post WWI... with an unemployment rate that sky rocketed when he took office and has never gone down... who's policies have failed to stimulate job creation... that's presiding over a record national debt that threatens to bankrupt the nation... who in spite of that debt, passed the largest spending bill in American history and did so with almost no republican support... who has spent and borrowed more money than any president in history... who enacted the largest social program in American history in spite of public outrage and unanimous republican opposition... Who's environmental policies treaten to create more financial hardship... who is against drilling for oil domestically which would lower fuel prices and create thousands of jobs.... and who also happens to be America's first black president...

With all that, it amazes me how anyone could think for a minute, that all opposition and protests against Obama by conservatives, republicans and members of the Tea Party, is centered around racism

Just out of curiosity...when the white president that preceded Obama presided over the worst economy since post WWI... with an unemployment rate that sky rocketed when he left office and which has never gone down... whose policies failed to stimulate job creation... who presided over a record national debt that threatened to bankrupt the nation... who in spite of that debt, passed tax cuts with no democrat support... who had spent and borrowed more money than any president in history until the black president who inherited his mess... who started two of the costliest and longest running wars in American history... whose environmental policies lead to events like the oil spill in the Gulf...etc. where was your outrage?

Where the hell was your outrage when Bush screwed up our country and why the hell are you now pretending that the entire mess belongs to Obama?

It is bullcrap like that which makes people think this is a racial issue.

 

[OscarB63]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

Just out of curiosity...when the white president that preceded Obama presided over the worst economy since post WWI... with an unemployment rate that sky rocketed when he left office and which has never gone down... whose policies failed to stimulate job creation... who presided over a record national debt that threatened to bankrupt the nation... who in spite of that debt, passed tax cuts with no democrat support... who had spent and borrowed more money than any president in history until the black president who inherited his mess... who started two of the costliest and longest running wars in American history... whose environmental policies lead to events like the oil spill in the Gulf...etc. where was your outrage?

Where the hell was your outrage when Bush screwed up our country and why the hell are you now pretending that the entire mess belongs to Obama?

It is bullcrap like that which makes people think this is a racial issue.

I don't know which is more pathetic... the constant bleats of "dat's wacist" or :2bigcry: It's all Bush's fault

how about you actually place some of the blame on Obama for a change?

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: It's time we addressed the truth about what "is" racist and what "isn't" racist

I don't know which is more pathetic... the constant bleats of "dat's wacist" or :2bigcry: It's all Bush's fault

how about you actually place some of the blame on Obama for a change?

Oh for **** sake! I hate Obama. But what I hate more is this partisan bullcrap where everyone pretends that Bush didn't have a part in our current situation or Obama doesn't have his share. We had two really lousy leaders and until the conservatives are willing to admit that they screwed up with Bush they are gonna look racist because Obama is doing pretty much everything he did.

My point is that I was bitching back when Bush was president about all the things the Tea Party is bitching about now that Obama is president. They are nothing but bunch of stupid, hypocrites. Which in my opinion, is a lot worse than a racist.