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It's a civil war and you damn well know it.

Checkerboard Strangler

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The Oath Keepers did not want the American people to view them as an extremist militia, just a bunch of military and law enforcement who "care about the country", right?

"It was a Friday evening in June. Rhodes, 55, is a stocky man with a gray buzz cut, a wardrobe of tactical-casual attire, and a black eye patch. With him in his pickup were a pistol and a dusty black hat with the gold logo of the Oath Keepers, a militant group that has drawn in thousands of people from the military and law-enforcement communities.

Rhodes had been talking about civil war since he founded the Oath Keepers, in 2009. But now more people were listening. And whereas Rhodes had once cast himself as a revolutionary in waiting, he now saw his role as defending the president. He had put out a call for his followers to protect the country against what he was calling an “insurrection.” The unrest, he told me, was the latest attempt to undermine Donald Trump."


---But let's not call what happened at the Capitol "the first salvo in the Civil War"....we wouldn't want to exaggerate too much?
Let's just call that a "riot", right?

"Rhodes was deeply affected by the 1993 government siege outside Waco, Texas, which ended in the deaths of more than 70 members of an armed Christian sect, which to him showed the danger of government power."

Another far Right monster who took up the same cause that inspired Tim McVeigh to bomb the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City.
But let's just ignore the fact that all of this hasn't been boiling under the surface ever since 1993, twenty-eight years.
Let's just ignore the fact that David Koresh and his "Christian" sect were really a cult that sexually assaulted eleven year old girls with the permission of their parents, they're just a church, right?
Let's just ignore the fact that these people have now promised to return to state Capitols in all 50 states with weapons next week, right?
It's not a civil war, it's just "freedom loving people with a difference of opinion".
I would think rational souls would stop and take a deeper look at the foundation of those "different opinions" and ask themselves what that foundation really consists of.
Because if we do not, and they finally achieve their goal...their objective, we will have normalized people like David Koresh and sold off our allegiance to people who defended him with guns and bombs, people who have already spilled blood for Koresh.

These are not oath keepers, they're Koresh Defenders.
They defend two monsters, Koresh and the Nazi formerly known as Trump.
 

swing_voter

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Oath Keepers are a joke.

They went to support Bundy at the Bundy Ranch. Bundy was refusing to pay the government for federal land he was grazing his cattle on.

They stood out in the desert for a week. Nothing happened.

Their leader said he had info that Obama was going to launch a drone strike on them and that they should all go home.

And that was the end of that.

The group is a farce.
 

Fishking

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Let's just ignore the fact that David Koresh and his "Christian" sect were really a cult that sexually assaulted eleven year old girls with the permission of their parents, they're just a church, right?
So the women and children deserved to be burned to death?
 

W_Heisenberg

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These idiots will find themselves in prison soon:

militia.jpg



 

Antiwar

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Agreed that this is absolutely serious.

Disagreed that this is currently a civil war. I'll quote Trump to illustrate my current position: "Stand back and stand by." Give law enforcement time to deal with it. Hopefully the military doesn't have to get involved because that sets up the conditions for (the proper phrase isn't coming to mind) a military takeover. And/or a police state.
 

Fishking

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I gotta ask: Are you defending McVeigh?
What kind of stupid ****ing question is that? Do you have to support McVeigh no not be OK with women and children burning to death?
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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Oath Keepers are a joke.

They went to support Bundy at the Bundy Ranch. Bundy was refusing to pay the government for federal land he was grazing his cattle on.

They stood out in the desert for a week. Nothing happened.

Their leader said he had info that Obama was going to launch a drone strike on them and that they should all go home.

And that was the end of that.

The group is a farce.
Never underestimate the power of large groups of very stupid people.
How do you think we ended up with Trump in the first place?
 

W_Heisenberg

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What kind of stupid ****ing question is that? Do you have to support McVeigh no not be OK with women and children burning to death?
Dude, just say what you mean.

You believe the idiotic conspiracy theories and you think the FBI killed them intentionally and you are sympathetic to Koresh.

It's not that hard. Just be honest.
 

tacomancer

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My guess at this point is that there will not be much in the way of overt aggression from the far right extremists, but we will be in for a good bit of terrorism and destructive riots for the next 10-20 years.
 

Luce

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What kind of stupid ****ing question is that? Do you have to support McVeigh no not be OK with women and children burning to death?
I didn't think you were, but it was worth checking on.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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So the women and children deserved to be burned to death?
Yeah, that's it, they deserved to be burned to death.
Wow, you sure love your logical fallacies, don't you?
But to be brutally honest, if these people are sick enough to hand over their eleven year old daughter to a guy who told them he's Jesus so can rape them while they look the other way and pray, I'm not even so sure I'd want to welcome them back into the community.
But sure, Fishking, whatever you say.
 

Fishking

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Dude, just say what you mean.

You believe the idiotic conspiracy theories and you think the FBI killed them intentionally and you are sympathetic to Koresh.

It's not that hard. Just be honest.
OK...so I have you on record as being OK with burning women and children alive. Got it.
 

Fishking

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Yeah, that's it, they deserved to be burned to death.
Wow, you sure love your logical fallacies, don't you?
But to be brutally honest, if these people are sick enough to hand over their eleven year old daughter to a guy who told them he's Jesus so can rape them while they look the other way and pray, I'm not even so sure I'd want to welcome them back into the community.
But sure, Fishking, whatever you say.
Good. You got that off your chest that you are fine they were removed from society.
 

Manc Skipper

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These idiots will find themselves in prison soon:

View attachment 67313427



The problem is that the brother of at least one of them reported that he'd no sooner got back from the invasion, than he changed gear and went back with his National Guard unit to defend the Capitol from people like him!
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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What kind of stupid ****ing question is that? Do you have to support McVeigh no not be OK with women and children burning to death?
Or, (and this is the part you're studiously ignoring in order to score some points in your imaginary game) you could look at the rational view, which is the fact that it's a heartbreaking tragedy that these people died, and nobody would have wanted it to end that way, but that also requires you to acknowledge that Koresh had stockpiled so many incendiary devices in the building that a flashover conflagration was almost a foregone conclusion, and that Koresh was ultimately responsible for the fire in the first place.
Had he not transformed the interior of his "CHURCH" into a F***KING BOMB FACTORY, maybe the whole thing wouldn't have turned into Mt.Kilauea in the first place.

 

Checkerboard Strangler

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My guess at this point is that there will not be much in the way of overt aggression from the far right extremists, but we will be in for a good bit of terrorism and destructive riots for the next 10-20 years.
(Furiously searching for alternate definitions of "overt aggression")
 

Evilroddy

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Agreed that this is absolutely serious.

Disagreed that this is currently a civil war. I'll quote Trump to illustrate my current position: "Stand back and stand by." Give law enforcement time to deal with it. Hopefully the military doesn't have to get involved because that sets up the conditions for (the proper phrase isn't coming to mind) a military takeover. And/or a police state.
Antiwar:

The surveillance and police state have been in place for the last generation. That boat sailed 20 years ago.

As you say this is a very, very serious locus of crises creating a political perfect storm. It's a kulturkampf between different iterations of perceived realities which are no longer based in fact or reason. It's a tri-polar disconnect between left, right and oligarchy, all of whom have badly distorted views of what is unfolding around them and how to deal with the political quakes shaking your republic to its foundations.

It is not yet a civil war but unless Americans of all political stripes can find a way to set aside their different realities and differences, in order to bring together those three diverging poles, there very well could be another civil war.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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Antiwar:

The surveillance and police state have been in place for the last generation. That boat sailed 20 years ago.

As you say this is a very, very serious locus of crises creating a political perfect storm. It's a kulturkampf between different iterations of perceived realities which are no longer based in fact or reason. It's a tri-polar disconnect between left, right and oligarchy, all of whom have badly distorted views of what is unfolding around them and how to deal with the political quakes shaking your republic to its foundations.

It is not yet a civil war but unless Americans of all political stripes can find a way to set aside their different realities and differences, in order to bring together those three diverging poles, there very well could be another civil war.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
applaud.gif

Quite possibly one of the best capsule descriptions of our current situation I have ever heard...all except the "we're not there yet" part.
Check back in a week.
 

Hypothetical

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no this is just wrong. this is NOTHING like a civil war yet. if we have an honest to god 2nd civil war , this country will burn to the ground. I personally am for that not happening.
 

Moderate Right

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The Oath Keepers did not want the American people to view them as an extremist militia, just a bunch of military and law enforcement who "care about the country", right?

"It was a Friday evening in June. Rhodes, 55, is a stocky man with a gray buzz cut, a wardrobe of tactical-casual attire, and a black eye patch. With him in his pickup were a pistol and a dusty black hat with the gold logo of the Oath Keepers, a militant group that has drawn in thousands of people from the military and law-enforcement communities.

Rhodes had been talking about civil war since he founded the Oath Keepers, in 2009. But now more people were listening. And whereas Rhodes had once cast himself as a revolutionary in waiting, he now saw his role as defending the president. He had put out a call for his followers to protect the country against what he was calling an “insurrection.” The unrest, he told me, was the latest attempt to undermine Donald Trump."


---But let's not call what happened at the Capitol "the first salvo in the Civil War"....we wouldn't want to exaggerate too much?
Let's just call that a "riot", right?

"Rhodes was deeply affected by the 1993 government siege outside Waco, Texas, which ended in the deaths of more than 70 members of an armed Christian sect, which to him showed the danger of government power."

Another far Right monster who took up the same cause that inspired Tim McVeigh to bomb the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City.
But let's just ignore the fact that all of this hasn't been boiling under the surface ever since 1993, twenty-eight years.
Let's just ignore the fact that David Koresh and his "Christian" sect were really a cult that sexually assaulted eleven year old girls with the permission of their parents, they're just a church, right?
Let's just ignore the fact that these people have now promised to return to state Capitols in all 50 states with weapons next week, right?
It's not a civil war, it's just "freedom loving people with a difference of opinion".
I would think rational souls would stop and take a deeper look at the foundation of those "different opinions" and ask themselves what that foundation really consists of.
Because if we do not, and they finally achieve their goal...their objective, we will have normalized people like David Koresh and sold off our allegiance to people who defended him with guns and bombs, people who have already spilled blood for Koresh.

These are not oath keepers, they're Koresh Defenders.
They defend two monsters, Koresh and the Nazi formerly known as Trump.
This post is a result of the left looking at the world through blue tinted glasses.
 
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