Israel makes another family homeless

[Hicup]

Which further exacerbates the whole idea of why we should even care? When Israel left Gaza, they left completely intact an entire economic infrastructure, including but not limited to agriculture.

What did the Palestinians do? Oh yeah they burned it and danced around the flames screaming death to Israel.

But not surprising, eh?

Tim-

 

[24107]

Yes, well the Earth may be round, but my challenge to you that Israel is illegally occupying Palestine is still pending.

Israeli settlements are illegal under every basic reading of international law:

- Article 46 of the Hague Convention prohibits confiscation of private property in occupied territory. Article 55 of the same Hague Convention stipulates “the occupying state shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct”.

- Article 49, paragraph 6 of the Fourth Geneva Convention explicitly stipulates that “the occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies”.

- UN Security Council Resolution 465 (1980-unanimously adopted) made it clear that “Israel’s policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants” in the Occupied Territories constitutes “a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East”. The Security Council called upon Israel to “dismantle the existing settlements and in particular to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction or planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem”.

- The 2004 ruling of the International Court of Justice in The Hague declared that “Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development”.

Also, I re-read the thread and am not seeing where you addressed the point I made about not being able to have Palestinians see the light, when they are breed to hate everything Jew?

So are the israeli settlers, they hate everything arab.

 

[24107]

This just seems like more anti-Israeli propaganda to me.

Look through your bias, and you will see the truth.

Illegal housing gets demolished, so what?

this has been discussed to death in this thread, look it over youll find your answer.

 

[Hicup]

Problem is they aren't occupied, they're spoils of war. Meaning Israel owns the land until someone takes it from them. Nice try though. Don't you think for a minute if the Pali's had a case it wouldn't be settled in a court of law? Yeah, I thought so..


Tim-

 

[Goshin]

Look through your bias, and you will see the truth.

this has been discussed to death in this thread, look it over youll find your answer.

I see the truth. I see that the so-called "Palastinians" don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. They want a state all right: the one Israel currently sits on.

Be glad I'm not President of the US. Around about Day 3 (Day 1 would be spent disbanding the BATFE by executive order, Day 2 I'm auditing the Fed :lamo ) I'd meet with Netayahu and say "Look here bud, this Pali state thing isn't going to work out. Here's my plan: we'll annex a chunk of Syria and deport all the Pali's that don't want to be Israeli citizens there, then give it back and let Syria worry about it since they're SO concerned with the Palistinian plight. Then you can colonize the West Bank and Gaza to your hearts' content. If anybody don't like it, America is going to tell them to piss up a rope. We got your back, anyone moves against you we'll send in the big bombers. Whaddaya say?"

Of course, the Syrians, like all the others that cry croc tears over the Pali's, don't want them in their country. How many Pali's did Jordan kill that time? 100,000? We'd have to keep an eye on Syria, they might decide to be mean to the Pali's too...






:mrgreen:

 

[24107]

I see the truth. I see that the so-called "Palastinians" don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. They want a state all right: the one Israel currently sits on.

Be glad I'm not President of the US. Around about Day 3 (Day 1 would be spent disbanding the BATFE by executive order, Day 2 I'm auditing the Fed :lamo ) I'd meet with Netayahu and say "Look here bud, this Pali state thing isn't going to work out. Here's my plan: we'll annex a chunk of Syria and deport all the Pali's that don't want to be Israeli citizens there, then give it back and let Syria worry about it since they're SO concerned with the Palistinian plight. Then you can colonize the West Bank and Gaza to your hearts' content. If anybody don't like it, America is going to tell them to piss up a rope. We got your back, anyone moves against you we'll send in the big bombers. Whaddaya say?"

Of course, the Syrians, like all the others that cry croc tears over the Pali's, don't want them in their country. How many Pali's did Jordan kill that time? 100,000? We'd have to keep an eye on Syria, they might decide to be mean to the Pali's too...






:mrgreen:

Go ahead internet warrior, tell us more of your fairytale.

 

[donsutherland1]

Moderator's Warning:

If the thread continues to veer off into unproductive directions that lead to increased baiting and flaming, it will be closed.

 

[Goshin]

Go ahead internet warrior, tell us more of your fairytale.

Well, since you started off the thread with a fairytale, I figured I'd continue with a pleasant daydream. :mrgreen:

 

[Degreez]

The article mentions an important detail:

The approval did not constitute a new project. It concerned one that was approved a long time ago.

So then it is not really a settlement freeze. A settlement freeze implies that there is a freeze in settlement activity. A freeze in settlement construction. A freeze in settlement expansion. That has not happened. Therefore, there has been no settlement freeze.

Second, you have again failed to address the current settlement policy taken in Occupied East Jerusalem.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

this is blatant denial, ''ignorance is bliss''

Yours is blatant bias. If you want to walk around wit blinders on, that's up to you, of course.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

It's the Israeli's who don't want peace, violating resolution's with illegal expansion of settlements, deliberately killing any chance of a 2-state solution.

Perhaps the Palestinians should stop terrorist activities. That might actually demonstrate that they want peace. Until they cease, this conflict is their responsibility.

 

[Shayah]

It's a shame the ME forum has depreciated to this level.

Maybe they should just ****can it and be done with the headaches.

 

[Degreez]

Perhaps the Palestinians should stop terrorist activities. That might actually demonstrate that they want peace. Until they cease, this conflict is their responsibility.

Perhaps the Israelis should stop occupying territory not belonging to them. That might actually demonstrate that they want peace. Until they cease the occupation and the land grabs, the terrorists will always be able to justify their actions.

See how easy it is? Now can you stop veering the topic off course?

 

[alexa]

This is a genuine question. One Pro Israel argument seems to be that because the arabs did not agree to a resolution which was imposed on them by a fledgling UN and this led to subsequent fighting, ( the nature of that does seem for someone interested in knowing what really happened to be in dispute).

However because of this fighting and that because Israel had better equipment and better trained personnel so kept winning, Israel now has the right to the spoils of war and to ignore the very UN who allowed them to come into being legally.

Now how that argument which seems to be 'might is right' can have any argument with any hostility which the Arabs can come up with for eternity is beyond me.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Perhaps the Israelis should stop occupying territory not belonging to them. That might actually demonstrate that they want peace. Until they cease the occupation and the land grabs, the terrorists will always be able to justify their actions.

See how easy it is? Now can you stop veering the topic off course?

Do you read what you just wrote? "Terrorists justify their actions." Sorry, Degreez, as far as I'm concerned, terrorists should be given nothing until they cease their behavior.

 

[Gardener]

Do you read what you just wrote? "Terrorists justify their actions." Sorry, Degreez, as far as I'm concerned, terrorists should be given nothing until they cease their behavior.

Terrorists try to justify their actions, certainly, but so do legions of those in the west who are so dogmatic in nature that they have simply co-opted these terrorist rationalizations as their own, especially as far as this specific conflict is involved.

Perhaps these are the people who should receive nothing because, as westerners, they are the only ones we can actually influence through our actions. If we adopt the position that justifying terrorism is an aspect of free speech, but objecting too strongly to it or even identifying it as such is not, then we are not only failing to stand our ground, but actually facilitating their opinion by running interference for it. I think we have become so politically correct in the west that we can no longer call a spade a spade, as even when our fellow westerners indulge in the same rhetorical blather as Islamist terrorists, we are so afraid of being considered "intolerant" of the position they espouse, and of being called a "right winger" or a "neocon" that we fail to addresses the true nature of what they are saying and what they are actually supporting.

 

[Gardener]

It's a shame the ME forum has depreciated to this level.

Maybe they should just ****can it and be done with the headaches.

It's a case of safety in numbers, because as the number of those all reading from the same scripts they find at rense, counterpunch or other hate sites increases, so does the stridency of their rhetorec.

THere are very few who defend against the constant agitprop compared to those engaging in it, and with so much of the propaganda working on the level of trolling and flame baiting, only the thickest skinned will stick around in order to defend.

 

[ido_]

Anyways,back on topic Israel is commiting violations on a daily basis, it seems their goal is to sabotage any sort of viable peace deal.

You are confusing Israel with the Palestinian Athority, Just do your history research, Israel's peace aspirations always backfired by Palestinian violance.

 

[Degreez]

Do you read what you just wrote? "Terrorists justify their actions." Sorry, Degreez, as far as I'm concerned, terrorists should be given nothing until they cease their behavior.

They will always use the occupation as a reasoning behind their rationale.

And what you forget is that the entire population of Palestine are not terrorists. You and don somehow believe Israel is making concessions when it starts to ablige by international law. That is like saying stopping indiscriminate rocket attacks is a concession Palestininan militant groups make. It's asinine.

 

[24107]

You are confusing Israel with the Palestinian Athority, Just do your history research, Israel's peace aspirations always backfired by Palestinian violance.

The Palestinians are ready for a two-state solution with arab East Jerusalem as their capital.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

They will always use the occupation as a reasoning behind their rationale.

Perhaps they should try a different tactic.

And what you forget is that the entire population of Palestine are not terrorists. You and don somehow believe Israel is making concessions when it starts to ablige by international law. That is like saying stopping indiscriminate rocket attacks is a concession Palestininan militant groups make. It's asinine.

I do not forget that there are Palestinians who are not terrorists. I feel bad for them, however, if their lives are difficult, the suggestion that I always make is that they need to vent their frustrations, verbally or physicially to those who are causing their problems: the terrorists amongst their own population.

Further, all of those things ARE concessions... concessions tht neither side seems to be willing to make, at times. However, looking at in context and from degree, I will state what I've always stated around this issue. Israel should do NOTHING until the rocket attacks cease and the Palestinian government retracts from any official papers anything that indicates the destruction of Israel. From that point, the concessions that Israel needs to make are as significant... if not more than those that the Palsestinians need to make.

 

[ido_]

The Palestinians are ready for a two-state solution with arab East Jerusalem as their capital.

Really, then perhaps you can explain to me why did Palestinians opened fire at me and my friends on October 2000 instead of taking Barak's offer for a state with east Jerusalem as their capital?

 

[Degreez]

Perhaps they should try a different tactic.

Suggest an alternative. Their reasoning for their attacks and recruitment is to end the occupation. Ending the occupation gives the terrorists no valid reasoning to indiscriminately attack Israel. Their views of destroying Israel will conflict with the majority of Palestinians who accept the two-state solution and recognize Israel's existence.

I do not forget that there are Palestinians who are not terrorists. I feel bad for them, however, if their lives are difficult, the suggestion that I always make is that they need to vent their frustrations, verbally or physicially to those who are causing their problems: the terrorists amongst their own population.

And how exactly are West Bank Palestinians going to stop Gazan militant groups from firing mortars/rockets? And the part I made bold is a clear example of something you do not understand. Why are some Palestinians being punished for crimes they did not commit?

Further, all of those things ARE concessions... concessions tht neither side seems to be willing to make, at times. However, looking at in context and from degree, I will state what I've always stated around this issue. Israel should do NOTHING until the rocket attacks cease and the Palestinian government retracts from any official papers anything that indicates the destruction of Israel. From that point, the concessions that Israel needs to make are as significant... if not more than those that the Palsestinians need to make.

Well of course you will suggest Israel do nothing. Israel will use the rocket attacks as a justification for grabbing more land and/or violating the human rights of the Palestinians.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Suggest an alternative. Their reasoning for their attacks and recruitment is to end the occupation. Ending the occupation gives the terrorists no valid reasoning to indiscriminately attack Israel. Their views of destroying Israel will conflict with the majority of Palestinians who accept the two-state solution and recognize Israel's existence.

I've suggested an alternative. Replace the current terrorist government with a government dedicated towards living in peace with their neighbor. Ending the terrorist attacks gives Israel no valid reason to continue the occupation.

And how exactly are West Bank Palestinians going to stop Gazan militant groups from firing mortars/rockets? And the part I made bold is a clear example of something you do not understand. Why are some Palestinians being punished for crimes they did not commit?

In order for a 2-state solution to work, those from the West Bank and those from Gaza must be united. It would then make sense for those from the West Bank to do something about the terrorist attacks from Gaza. Of course, if we are looking at a 3-state solution, this would not apply.

Well of course you will suggest Israel do nothing. Israel will use the rocket attacks as a justification for grabbing more land and/or violating the human rights of the Palestinians.

As soon as the Palestinian government renounces terrorist attacks, Israel has lots they need to do. Before that? Nope. NOTHING.