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Is Feminism Devisive ?

Is Feminism Divisive


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Windy

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Are women today creating such a moral vacuum by setting new rules for society?
Are the old rules better for society?
Many are divided on the issue.
That is why I ask is Feminism divisive; does it separate us by moral and social values?
 

akyron

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Windy said:
Are women today creating such a moral vacuum by setting new rules for society?
Are the old rules better for society?
Many are divided on the issue.
That is why I ask is Feminism divisive; does it separate us by moral and social values?

What old rules and what new rules are you talking about exactly?
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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I think many people see feminism as a movement for women's rights. Sorry to say, it's not. No more than the ACLU is about protecting civil liberties. It's about an agenda.

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, quoted in "NOW: Pro-Fatherhood Funding Is Unconstitutional," in the February 2000 Jewish World Review.

"We can't destroy the inequities between man and woman until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan, in Sisterhood Is Powerful, 1970.

In 30 years the feminist movement hasn't changed & they've yet to address women's rights.

source of quotes: http://www.youdontsay.org/What2004.htm
 

Urethra Franklin

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
I think many people see feminism as a movement for women's rights. Sorry to say, it's not. No more than the ACLU is about protecting civil liberties. It's about an agenda.

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, quoted in "NOW: Pro-Fatherhood Funding Is Unconstitutional," in the February 2000 Jewish World Review.

"We can't destroy the inequities between man and woman until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan, in Sisterhood Is Powerful, 1970.

In 30 years the feminist movement hasn't changed & they've yet to address women's rights.

source of quotes: http://www.youdontsay.org/What2004.htm
Perhaps not in your backward country, but in Europe we've acheived equal pay legislation, sex discimination legislation, the acceptation of rape in marriage as a crime, greater numbers of women in senior positions, greater numbers of women in professions (some European nations now have more female than male doctors), and the list goes on. Feminism hasn't achieved much? Perhaps not in Fonzy's bar, but most of live in the real world.
You take afew abstract quotes and expect us to take that as a serious argument? (It's the son of Fantasea!). Demonstrate that you actually understand feminist theory and you might be worth talking to, though I doubt it.
 

flip2

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Urethra Franklin said:
You take afew abstract quotes and expect us to take that as a serious argument? (It's the son of Fantasea!). Demonstrate that you actually understand feminist theory and you might be worth talking to, though I doubt it.
This very attitude is commonplace among feminists who think just like their male-liberal counterparts--Self-righteous and above everyone and everything.

There is a better approach to issues women fight for and stand for. I like Concerned Women for America. Their approach is strong, yet they know how to communicate properly without inciting.
 

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Urethra Franklin said:
Perhaps not in your backward country, but in Europe we've acheived equal pay legislation, sex discimination legislation, the acceptation of rape in marriage as a crime, greater numbers of women in senior positions, greater numbers of women in professions (some European nations now have more female than male doctors), and the list goes on. Feminism hasn't achieved much? Perhaps not in Fonzy's bar, but most of live in the real world.
You take afew abstract quotes and expect us to take that as a serious argument? (It's the son of Fantasea!). Demonstrate that you actually understand feminist theory and you might be worth talking to, though I doubt it.
I notice people who disagree with you tend to get a little angry when they know you're right.

I have to admit; I am not against women in the work force as you might think. I don't think feminism/the woman's movement is even about that. Since my last post I cam across a couple other quotes from feminists that would indicate the same thing as the other quotes.

I know a woman who is VP of a major corporation. Her husband owns a couple of muffler shops on the east coast. She makes a lot more than him. I also know other women who do similar jobs as the men they work with (teachers/accounting/etc.) & make as much or more. AND, that's even right here in the bigoted mid-west.

Let's take a look at society (in America). When did the down fall of morality start in America? Some associate it with the suppression of the church. I think you can track it to women entering the workforce full time & permanently. Yes, it took several years (probably decades) for women to make a comparable wage to that of men; but that has not been without consequences. I think you'll notice the wages of men have decreased since women entered the workforce. Men used to be able to work at a grocery store & support his family. That's not the case anymore. Even an auto parts factory is becoming tough to raise your family on. Unless you are a high-powered exec it's tough to raise a family on a single income. Do you know why & when this happened; or at least the course it took to get us to this point? Feminism; not to fully blame; is a contributing factor.
 

shuamort

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People should be treated equally. There's a bumper sticker I read once that said "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people too". Of course, I haven't seen many in the feminist movement protesting against the fact that the draft is male only.
 

Windy

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Urethra Franklin said:
Perhaps not in your backward country, but in Europe we've acheived equal pay legislation, sex discimination legislation, the acceptation of rape in marriage as a crime, greater numbers of women in senior positions, greater numbers of women in professions (some European nations now have more female than male doctors), and the list goes on. Feminism hasn't achieved much? Perhaps not in Fonzy's bar, but most of live in the real world.
You take afew abstract quotes and expect us to take that as a serious argument? (It's the son of Fantasea!). Demonstrate that you actually understand feminist theory and you might be worth talking to, though I doubt it.
Nice to see you live in the real World Urethra.
Perhaps you should have the equality you cherish so much with millions of MEN that have no hope of ever changing their status in society: and never will have.
Seems to me that the ones who are doing all the shouting about womens rights; are the ones who need equality like a hole in the Head.
I dont know your situation in life but I would wager that you would not want equality with me. Bet I would with you though
 

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shuamort said:
Of course, I haven't seen many in the feminist movement protesting against the fact that the draft is male only.
Nor are they complaining that they are not allowed on the frontline in a war.
 

flip2

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But they'll complain when a conservative woman makes it to a high post, i.e. Condi Rice.

So much for sisterhood. I guess only if you're a liberal fanatic feminist, then it's okay.
 

loverofpeace

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shuamort said:
People should be treated equally. There's a bumper sticker I read once that said "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people too". Of course, I haven't seen many in the feminist movement protesting against the fact that the draft is male only.
Well the draft is immoral. So that's a bad example. Not only should women not be forced to register for it, but men shouldn't either. It should be abolished completely. So no, I wouldn't see why feminists would want to change the draft to include women.
 

loverofpeace

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
I have to admit; I am not against women in the work force as you might think.

I know a woman who is VP of a major corporation. Her husband owns a couple of muffler shops on the east coast. She makes a lot more than him. I also know other women who do similar jobs as the men they work with (teachers/accounting/etc.) & make as much or more. AND, that's even right here in the bigoted mid-west.

Let's take a look at society (in America). When did the down fall of morality start in America? Some associate it with the suppression of the church. I think you can track it to women entering the workforce full time & permanently. Yes, it took several years (probably decades) for women to make a comparable wage to that of men; but that has not been without consequences. I think you'll notice the wages of men have decreased since women entered the workforce. Men used to be able to work at a grocery store & support his family. That's not the case anymore. Even an auto parts factory is becoming tough to raise your family on. Unless you are a high-powered exec it's tough to raise a family on a single income. Do you know why & when this happened; or at least the course it took to get us to this point? Feminism; not to fully blame; is a contributing factor.
How dare you suggest that women in the workforce is responsible for the degredation of morality in America! It sounds to me that yes, you are highly against women in the workforce. Well perhaps you'd rather they stayed at home to made you dinner and iron your shirts. Get out of the past dude!

I see nothing wrong with allowing women to make as much money and hold the same positions as men. Equality to me sounds like a good thing to strive for. I think you are slightly incorrect about the fall of men's wages. And they still make considerably more than women, even if the two are holding the same positions. You say that men used to be able to work at a grocery store and support his family. Well they still can, and I can guarantee you that women have a harder time supporting their family off one job than men do. And you also say that even a high powered exec has trouble raising his family. Well, just so you know, there are more men high powered execs than women high powered execs. And the women high powered execs make less money than the men high powered execs do. Yes, women do have a tougher time in society and I think you're just unwilling to share the power. It sounds to me that you're just worried about shifting gender roles in society, not moral values.

In conclusion, I see nothing wrong with women's rights. Power to the people! (All of them)

And thank you for sharing, Urethra Franklin.
 

Urethra Franklin

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flip2 said:
But they'll complain when a conservative woman makes it to a high post, i.e. Condi Rice.

So much for sisterhood. I guess only if you're a liberal fanatic feminist, then it's okay.
I may disagree with her politics, but I think it's great to see a mixed race lesbian in such a position.
 
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Urethra Franklin

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Let's take a look at society (in America). When did the down fall of morality start in America? Some associate it with the suppression of the church. I think you can track it to women entering the workforce full time & permanently. Yes, it took several years (probably decades) for women to make a comparable wage to that of men; but that has not been without consequences. I think you'll notice the wages of men have decreased since women entered the workforce. Men used to be able to work at a grocery store & support his family. That's not the case anymore. Even an auto parts factory is becoming tough to raise your family on. Unless you are a high-powered exec it's tough to raise a family on a single income. Do you know why & when this happened; or at least the course it took to get us to this point? Feminism; not to fully blame; is a contributing factor.

People's expectations have changed. One wage is no longer sufficient to supply all the electronic gadets, cars and holidays we've come to take for granted. Not to mention the small fortunes United Statesians send to televangelists.
You ignore the large numbers of women who've suffered mental illnesses such as depression though being subjugated into the nice mumsy housewife rôle you'd love us all to take on. The fact that these pressures have made women ill is well documented, by male (Raymond Murphy) as wel as female sociologists/psychologists/psychiatrists.
It makes sense that if you have two able bodied, capable people able to fulfil their potential and contribute to the economy, they should have the opportunity to do so. Child care facilities in turn provide employment which aids the economy, as well providing children with the healthy experience of sharing and interacting with other kids which compliments family life. The guilt thrown at working women for "ignoring" their children is of course bullcrap. Crèches provide stimulation and a pre-school education they don't get at home with one mother (who invariably in your world has to sit them in front of the TV while she gets the roast in the oven and slippers by the fire).
It's useless citing anecdotal examples of this successful woman here and the woman who was a happy housewife there. Women have to prove themselves twice over to be successful, and there will always be some women who enjoy staying at home to raise kids and cook hubby's supper - more power to their CHOICE, for I am all in favour of choice, but please keep your moralistic claptrap to yourself. Maybe you're frightened of independent women Fonzy? Threatened by a woman who can hold her own? Yeah, lifes easier with a "groovy chick" isn't it?
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if "Happy Days" was concoted by the US government. Lets feed them this s*it about "cool" kids who go home to their happy families, eat apple pie and go to church. And we'll throw in this "rebel" Fonz who's actually a sexist prat (Henry Winkler is an ugly ****er - one of the few men on this planet I wouldn't sleep with) and they'll think that's daring. What a womderful rôle model for tomorrows great United Statesian citizens. Oh, only the white ones though. Sad nation.
 
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Arthur Fonzarelli

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Urethra Franklin said:
People's expectations have changed. One wage is no longer sufficient to supply all the electronic gadets, cars and holidays we've come to take for granted. Not to mention the small fortunes United Statesians send to televangelists.
You ignore the large numbers of women who've suffered mental illnesses such as depression though being subjugated into the nice mumsy housewife rôle you'd love us all to take on. The fact that these pressures have made women ill is well documented, by male (Raymond Murphy) as wel as female sociologists/psychologists/psychiatrists.
It makes sense that if you have two able bodied, capable people able to fulfil their potential and contribute to the economy, they should have the opportunity to do so. Child care facilities in turn provide employment which aids the economy, as well providing children with the healthy experience of sharing and interacting with other kids which compliments family life. The guilt thrown at working women for "ignoring" their children is of course bullcrap. Crèches provide stimulation and a pre-school education they don't get at home with one mother (who invariably in your world has to sit them in front of the TV while she gets the roast in the oven and slippers by the fire).
It's useless citing anecdotal examples of this successful woman here and the woman who was a happy housewife there. Women have to prove themselves twice over to be successful, and there will always be some women who enjoy staying at home to raise kids and cook hubby's supper - more power to their CHOICE, for I am all in favour of choice, but please keep your moralistic claptrap to yourself. Maybe you're frightened of independent women Fonzy? Threatened by a woman who can hold her own? Yeah, lifes easier with a "groovy chick" isn't it?
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if "Happy Days" was concoted by the US government. Lets feed them this s*it about "cool" kids who go home to their happy families, eat apple pie and go to church. And we'll throw in this "rebel" Fonz who's actually a sexist prat (Henry Winkler is an ugly ****er - one of the few men on this planet I wouldn't sleep with) and they'll think that's daring. What a womderful rôle model for tomorrows great United Statesian citizens. Oh, only the white ones though. Sad nation.
Obviously you missed the point. On one hand you include yourself with us when chattering about electronics & holidays, etc. but, distance yourself from us; referring to us as United Statesians; when talking about televangelists.

Actually, I love & respect independent women. My mother is a retired teacher. My wife owns & operates her own business. Both of my sisters work & one of them makes more than her husband. My point is that I have been around independent women all my life & have no problem with them. That was actually one of the things I liked about my wife when I met her. The problem, as I see it, is when neither parent is there to raise the children. My wife & I did use daycare when needed, but that was not our first choice. And, I stress OUR CHOICE. You really have to do your homework & checkout daycare centers as they all are not up to snuff.

As for people's expectations that have changed: Society has changed. Some for the better & some for the worse. Neighborhood, family owned grocery stores are not the norm anymore as they used to be. The need for a second family car was perpetuated by the advent of the supermarket. Plus the fact that many older neighborhood schools have been closed & communities have opted for fewer, larger, more centrally located schools to cut the cost of education. In some cases not even offering busing. Plus kids are involved in school sports (at that central location) while communities are not utilizing their neighborhood parks as much as they used to. Many of them are not fit for kids to play because they've been neglected. All this is a part of the slippery slope/downward spiral while you contend that women in the workforce has helped our economy. I find that laughable when average middle class families with two incomes don't have near the quality of life they had 30 years ago with a single income.

As I said before: I do not blame this all on women in the workforce but it certainly is a contributing factor.

side note: I also know a family where the women has a high paying exec career & the husband stays home to be the home maker (cooks, cleans, teaches the children before they reach school age, involved in the local school system, etc.). To me, it's not about women in the workforce so much as it is about both parents having to work to make ends meet. I will always believe that our children suffer as a result.
 

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loverofpeace said:
Well the draft is immoral. So that's a bad example. Not only should women not be forced to register for it, but men shouldn't either. It should be abolished completely. So no, I wouldn't see why feminists would want to change the draft to include women.
What draft are you talking about? There is no draft.
 

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loverofpeace said:
How dare you suggest that women in the workforce is responsible for the degredation of morality in America! It sounds to me that yes, you are highly against women in the workforce. Well perhaps you'd rather they stayed at home to made you dinner and iron your shirts. Get out of the past dude!

I see nothing wrong with allowing women to make as much money and hold the same positions as men. Equality to me sounds like a good thing to strive for. I think you are slightly incorrect about the fall of men's wages. And they still make considerably more than women, even if the two are holding the same positions. You say that men used to be able to work at a grocery store and support his family. Well they still can, and I can guarantee you that women have a harder time supporting their family off one job than men do. And you also say that even a high powered exec has trouble raising his family. Well, just so you know, there are more men high powered execs than women high powered execs. And the women high powered execs make less money than the men high powered execs do. Yes, women do have a tougher time in society and I think you're just unwilling to share the power. It sounds to me that you're just worried about shifting gender roles in society, not moral values.

In conclusion, I see nothing wrong with women's rights. Power to the people! (All of them)

And thank you for sharing, Urethra Franklin.
Let's look at the average manufacturing job. Now, most factories like to hire more women than men. They will pay them the same; so why do you suppose that's their goal. And yes, I believe it's their goal just out of observation right here in my home town. Women are less likely to vote in a union. Why? Because without a union they can use their sexuality to get ahead. I have actually witnessed this & is one of the reasons I left manufacturing.

Let me clarify. I don't have a problem with women in the workforce:I have a problem with both parents having to work just to make ends meet. If a woman works to support the family & the man can stay home with the children I think the kids will have a better quality childhood than if both parents work. I suppose my comment about "women" in the workforce was based out of tradition; not so much about I think all women should be barefoot & pregnant. That is certainly not the case.
 

Urethra Franklin

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
You really have to do your homework & checkout daycare centers as they all are not up to snuff. .
Where I live we have state regulation and very strict standards. And nobody takes on paid childcare without a recognised child-care qualification, hence we don't have Louise Woodward's placed in situations they're neither prepared for nor qualified for.

Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Neighborhood, family owned grocery stores are not the norm anymore as they used to be.
.
They are where I live

Arthur Fonzarelli said:
The need for a second family car was perpetuated by the advent of the supermarket. .
I don't have a car. I don't need one and I don't want one. I don't believe anybody in European cities can say they really need one, with the excellent public transport we have.

Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Plus the fact that many older neighborhood schools have been closed & communities have opted for fewer, larger, more centrally located schools to cut the cost of education. .
Nasty capitalistic nation!
I fall over schoolkids on my way to work.


Arthur Fonzarelli said:
while you contend that women in the workforce has helped our economy.
.
Logically it should. It's your system that's wrong. Under free-market laissez-faire capitalism there will always be victims, and lots of them. It's a system that creates winners and losers.


Arthur Fonzarelli said:
To me, it's not about women in the workforce so much as it is about both parents having to work to make ends meet. I will always believe that our children suffer as a result.
And I believe they benefit from the stimulation of the group, learning how to interact and share with others from day one, complemented by a family life at home which can be quality rather than quantity. We'll agree to differ, and I apologize if I judged you harshly at first.
I think we see a stark difference between the US ultra-capitalistic model, and the socialist model as exists where I live (France). Your system is built around keeping the woman at home, and chastising her if she doesn't (she's ignoring her kids - disproved by many studies; she's taking a man's job - also disproved by amongst others Perkins' excellent Coventry study in the UK) whereas in Europe if you're an able woman it's easier (though the situation isn't perfect) to go out there and get what you want, AND balance it with a homelife that involves kids. And yes, I believe we've got there because of the feminist miovement. Otherwise we'd still have unequal pay, perhaps not even the right to vote. Women fought for these rights - they didn't just tumble from the sky.

Ask your wife to give you a big one from me.
 

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Urethra Franklin said:
Ask your wife to give you a big one from me.
You'd be amazed. My wife is terribly upset with the bra-burning feminists. Although she does enjoy many of the rights advocated by the early years of the women's movement (voting, etc.) she also believes (based on tradition) that women entering the workforce full time created a climate that requires both parents to work now. Luckily we've been able to work it so she only has to work part time hours at this point. That's not always been the case for us though.

to address your assertion that you don't have or need a car or that family owned grocery stores still exist where you live: In some cases that's true here in the states; it's just not the norm. I live in a small community (about 50,000). Sure there are jobs here; mostly low paying Japanese owned auto parts factories ($10 to $13 per hour). I drive 1 hour to work everyday to make a better living for my family ($21 per hour). Plus the benefits are better than most jobs. This provided my wife the opportunity to reduce the amount of work she had been doing. As I said before, my wife is self-employed (she cleans homes for a living...can't really do that without transportation...she drives from home to home & brings all her own supplies). If she had to use public transportation she'd be gone all day. That would defeat the purpose of her working part time. By the way, I work for a major railroad. I haven't worked in my home town for at least 10 years now. Mainly due to the influx of foreign owned manufacturing companies that don't pay very well. Most of which have 50% or more women in their workforce. I now work in a craft that rarely hires women to do. I have done so for the past 10 years or so. My main craft is that of welding. Some women do weld but it's rare. I found when working with no or very few women I have made more per hour as opposed to working with large numbers of women. It's a simple fact I have learned through experience.
 

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
I found when working with no or very few women I have made more per hour as opposed to working with large numbers of women. It's a simple fact I have learned through experience.
That is because women are so appallingly discriminated against, which is why we have feminists. If women weren't treated so badly your wife could probably work part time and earn more than she does now. She shouldn't be upset with the "bra-burning feminists", she should be supporting the cause.
 

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This is most interesting, and i find i tend to agree with Arthur Fonzarelli. But I cant say for shure that women bring down the sallorys. i think that sallorys seem so low becouse prices are so hi, in maine it will coust me $500 monthly to have a place of mine own were i only get $200 a week. in 3 weeks thats $600..that leaves $100 a month for food..... but thats off topic. Im wondering if in eorupe , maby here in the USA too, if we are starting to look at discriminatoin of men? Becouse of the power of the women, dont take this wrong, i think that women shoudl be albe to vote and work if they want to, i dont think that they should be albe to lord that right over us men, when i get marrared i dont want my wife to work, if she had to it would mean i was unable to provied for her, but if i cant get work couse a woman applied first and they have to take her?
 

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Pulaskee said:
This is most interesting, and i find i tend to agree with Arthur Fonzarelli. But I cant say for shure that women bring down the sallorys. i think that sallorys seem so low becouse prices are so hi, in maine it will coust me $500 monthly to have a place of mine own were i only get $200 a week. in 3 weeks thats $600..that leaves $100 a month for food..... but thats off topic. Im wondering if in eorupe , maby here in the USA too, if we are starting to look at discriminatoin of men? Becouse of the power of the women, dont take this wrong, i think that women shoudl be albe to vote and work if they want to, i dont think that they should be albe to lord that right over us men, when i get marrared i dont want my wife to work, if she had to it would mean i was unable to provied for her, but if i cant get work couse a woman applied first and they have to take her?
Well, mate, I wish you luck in your search for Mrs Neanderthal.
 

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Let's look at the average manufacturing job. Now, most factories like to hire more women than men. They will pay them the same; so why do you suppose that's their goal. And yes, I believe it's their goal just out of observation right here in my home town. Women are less likely to vote in a union. Why? Because without a union they can use their sexuality to get ahead. I have actually witnessed this & is one of the reasons I left manufacturing.

Let me clarify. I don't have a problem with women in the workforce:I have a problem with both parents having to work just to make ends meet. If a woman works to support the family & the man can stay home with the children I think the kids will have a better quality childhood than if both parents work. I suppose my comment about "women" in the workforce was based out of tradition; not so much about I think all women should be barefoot & pregnant. That is certainly not the case.
You have a wife?

And do you honestly think that average women use their sexuality to get ahead? I will have to sorely disagree with you here. I'm sure female movie stars and such use this tactic, as they are directed to do... but let's not count out all the men who have used their sexuality to get ahead as well... What it really sounds to me is that men just don't want to let women be anything but housewives and sex icons.

I'm really confused about where you stand on females. You say that women in the workforce caused the degrading of morality, then you say that you don't have a problem with women in the workforce. You talk about how it's actually the women oppressing the men in regards to salary, but then you speak of your wife. And I'm surprised that you're basing ALL women on just the small experiences you've had at home. Yes, I would agree that there is a poverty problem here in the United States, but that has more to do with the welfare system and government aid than feminism.

I understand if you are the traditional kind of guy, but I ask that you please do not let your traditions cause you to become prejudiced.
 

loverofpeace

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Pulaskee said:
Im wondering if in eorupe , maby here in the USA too, if we are starting to look at discriminatoin of men? Becouse of the power of the women, dont take this wrong, i think that women shoudl be albe to vote and work if they want to, i dont think that they should be albe to lord that right over us men, when i get marrared i dont want my wife to work, if she had to it would mean i was unable to provied for her, but if i cant get work couse a woman applied first and they have to take her?
I suppose you think that when blacks were beginning to be integrated into schools, you felt that we were starting to look at discrimination of whites?

And how is trying to make it along in a working society dominated by men "lording that right" over you? When you get married, I hope you accept and embrace whatever decisions your wife wants to make in her life. And I hope she does the same for you.

And sometimes people like to work anyways, even when they don't need the money.
 

Windy

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loverofpeace said:
You have a wife?

And do you honestly think that average women use their sexuality to get ahead? I will have to sorely disagree with you here. I'm sure female movie stars and such use this tactic, as they are directed to do... but let's not count out all the men who have used their sexuality to get ahead as well... What it really sounds to me is that men just don't want to let women be anything but housewives and sex icons.

I'm really confused about where you stand on females. You say that women in the workforce caused the degrading of morality, then you say that you don't have a problem with women in the workforce. You talk about how it's actually the women oppressing the men in regards to salary, but then you speak of your wife. And I'm surprised that you're basing ALL women on just the small experiences you've had at home. Yes, I would agree that there is a poverty problem here in the United States, but that has more to do with the welfare system and government aid than feminism.

I understand if you are the traditional kind of guy, but I ask that you please do not let your traditions cause you to become prejudiced.

Do my eyes deceive me? ROFL
'The pot calling the kettle black'
We have all read your posts; and you call him 'predudiced' ROFL
 
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