I'm black and get persucuted by others blacks. Guess why.

[sawyerloggingon]

BINGO! I don't sound distinctively "black" when I talk. This means I think I'm better than other blacks, "you've forgotten you're one of us," I'm not a true black person, I'm an embarrassment to my race, I'm pretending to be white, etc. etc. Its actually funny. Even though I'm in no way saying all or even most black people I know have expressed this criticism, it happens enough that I'm personally mildly put off by it.

But yeah, a lot of black people I know apparently have a problem with blacks who lack a distinctively black sounding accent and I'm in the club due to no fault of my own. I was raised by a school teacher who forbade me to speak in the dialect of the streets in what later became known as Ebonics and I moved around a little growing up, which tends to give some people a more general accent as opposed to having a tendency for a more regional accent such as a Southern Drawl, Mid Western or New England accent. In my case it seems to have also neutralized any distinctive ethnic sound as well.

You type white too, I had no idea you were black.:lol:

 

[Smeagol]

Next time any of these jokers tell you that, tell them "I talk like I have a job, and not like a thug in the ghetto".

There are no "black accents" or "white accents". There's modern American speech and then there's welfare recipient going nowhere.

Thanks for the encouragement but I do think there's a difference between the way Deval Patrick and Herman Cain speak although both use correct grammar and neither are in my opinion speaking incorrectly. I get flack for talking like Gov. Patrick or Corey Booker, aka not black sounding enough.

 

[AGENT J]

Next time any of these jokers tell you that, tell them "I talk like I have a job, and not like a thug in the ghetto".

There are no "black accents" or "white accents". There's modern American speech and then there's welfare recipient going nowhere.

in many ways i have to agree

while i myself talk in slang and what not and so do many of my friends who are white theres a time and place for it . . .
its really that simple, how i talked to you in person in my backyard drink beers watching foortball is not how im going to talk to my boss in a meeting or to my grandmother at thanksgiving etc

 

[Mathematician]

On a lighter note, many have said Rick Astley doesn't sound white.

 

[joko104]

as time passes, more and more distinctive accents, including regional accents, not just "black accents," will disappear, as education levels rise, as people move around and have more shared experiences with people from other groups and parts of the country ... my oldest son, for example, is Puerto Rican (both my wife and I are) and he went to high school principally with Asian-American kids in CA, and in college ends up meeting, falling in love with, and marrying a white woman from Alabama, from a conservative family (and we're very much on the left, as are our sons) ... you can barely detect her southern accent and if you talked to my son, or any of us on the phone, there's no way you'd even say, he/they sound Latino, let alone Puerto Rican ... the times they are a changin' ... people need to leave other people alone ...

but you also noted that you listen to Rush ... if you tend to be on the conservative side and you're black, that can cause you to get flack from other blacks who, as a group, tend to be more liberal ... Is that the case?

Television, radio and Internet is what will cause accents to continue to vanish.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Thanks for the encouragement but I do think there's a difference between the way Deval Patrick and Herman Cain speak although both use correct grammar and neither are in my opinion not speaking correctly. I get flack for talking like Gov. Patrick.

As long as speaking proper English and getting good grades is "acting white" there is going to be a huge black under class.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Next time any of these jokers tell you that, tell them "I talk like I have a job, and not like a thug in the ghetto".

There are no "black accents" or "white accents". There's modern American speech and then there's welfare recipient going nowhere.

No, there's Standard English and African-American Vernacular English which is one dialect among many. Your comment is racist and prejudiced. I would suggest studying linguistics to rectify that.

 

[Hard Truth]

Let me clarify that I was not talking about accent, but rather grammar and vocabulary. From Smeagol's mention of ebonics on post #20, I gather that the criticism and disrespect received for not sounding black has relatively little to do with accent and more to do with what is said. Smeagol can correct me if I'm wrong.

Many people with bad grammar and limited vocabulary have good character, it is an indication of background and education, but not character.

 

[Hard Truth]

Television, radio and Internet is what will cause accents to continue to vanish.

They also spread accents, as witnessed by the growing number of young white guys using language they learned from rap music.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

in many ways i have to agree

while i myself talk in slang and what not and so do many of my friends who are white theres a time and place for it . . .
its really that simple, how i talked to you in person in my backyard drink beers watching foortball is not how im going to talk to my boss in a meeting or to my grandmother at thanksgiving etc

I'm the same way, I talk differently at work than I do at home. I actually have a very vulgar way of speaking outside of work. The problem is many people can't stop talking this way. Whoever tells Smeagol that he "Talks like a whitey" and scolds him for turning his back on the black community, is a low quality person that he's better without.

No, there's Standard English and African-American Vernacular English which is one dialect among many. Your comment is racist and prejudiced. I would suggest studying linguistics to rectify that.

If you go to a job interview and plan on getting it, you will be speaking modern American English. You will not be talking like a thug.

There's nothing racist about it. I've seen white people, latinos, blacks, asians, and more talk like thugs. Fact is, if you talk like that, you're making a very negative impression about yourself.

But by all means, continue getting offended about something the entire working world agrees on.

 

[Smeagol]

Now Sméagol, you know I love ya'. I just have to say that when I read your post, this is the first thing I thought of. :lol:

:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo

 

[AGENT J]

1.)I'm the same way, I talk differently at work than I do at home. I actually have a very vulgar way of speaking outside of work.
2.) The problem is many people can't stop talking this way. Whoever tells Smeagol that he "Talks like a whitey" and scolds him for turning his back on the black community, is a low quality person that he's better without.
3.) If you go to a job interview and plan on getting it, you will be speaking modern American English. You will not be talking like a thug.
4.) There's nothing racist about it. I've seen white people, latinos, blacks, asians, and more talk like thugs. Fact is, if you talk like that, you're making a very negative impression about yourself.
5.) But by all means, continue getting offended about something the entire working world agrees on.

1.) i think most do
2.) i agree and not only that they have no idea what the black community is
3.) well its not even thug, its thug, hick, slack jaw, etc etc

but the main point is you have to be able to share basic communication

and id also like to point out that its even industry based, rocket scientist vs music producer for instance. Pop culture plays a role in some industries.

4.) I have to agree depending on your setting and environment.

5.) exactly not worth the time

 

[opendebate]

I think the biggest factors on my lack of an ethnic accent were my mother being an educator who didn't allow me to use slang and being moving around as a kid. The main place I lived the locals had a very thick accent and there was no way I was going to let myself use that accent so I gravitated to just a general American accent. Maybe a little of both osmosis and choice.

Have you experienced racist attitudes from whites as well?

 

[Hard Truth]

Yeah it's not much different to any group. Dialects are all about sub groups and identification with sub groups. It's dumb and archaic but it's still with us obviously.

Dialects and accents have a purpose. They tell others about your ethnic/cultural identity, where you live or lived, your education level and your social class. They allow one to speak in code in public. (ie. ¨Yo, 5-0¨ means ¨Police approaching, behave accordingly.¨) They can be a more efficient way to discuss things that are only relevant to people in that community. They provide humor and colorful metaphors. They do influence other dialects and the standard language.

Jargon is related and has many of the same purposes. Jargon is often used to determine the skill level of a worker and are also used to impress potential clients with one´s knowledge level.

If we only had our standard language it would not evolve as needed to meet changing needs. Dialects contribute to the standard language by providing more efficient an/or colorful ways of speaking.

 

[windowdressing]

Television, radio and Internet is what will cause accents to continue to vanish.

that too ...

 

[VanceMack]

Now Sméagol, you know I love ya'. I just have to say that when I read your post, this is the first thing I thought of. :lol:

I have a sense of humor, get the joke, and its funny and all that. But on a serious note...none of the "soul less" people depicted in the spoof video have to worry about gang shootings and crack whores dying on their doorstep. So...maybe a little less 'soul' isnt always a bad thing. And when I say bad I mean 'bad'...not "bad mutha ****a!"

 

[ThePlayDrive]

If you go to a job interview and plan on getting it, you will be speaking modern American English. You will not be talking like a thug.

"Modern American English" includes the dialect you're criticizing which is AAVE. The dialect you're praising is Standard English. Your inability to use the correct terminology reveals your ignorance. It's fine to be ignorant about something, but when you are corrected, it's foolish to carry on with it, particularly when you are arguing that OTHER people are uneducated.

There's nothing racist about it. I've seen white people, latinos, blacks, asians, and more talk like thugs.

The racism is in the value judgment of a dialect primarily used by black people. By referring to that dialect as the dialect of "thugs" and unemployed "welfare recipients", you are engaging in racism.

Fact is, if you talk like that, you're making a very negative impression about yourself.

Only with prejudiced people.

But by all means, continue getting offended about something the entire working world agrees on.

I'm concerned with the truth, not popularity. The truth is that your comment was both ignorant and racist.

 

[windowdressing]

Dialects and accents have a purpose. They tell others about your ethnic/cultural identity, where you live or lived, your education level and your social class. They allow one to speak in code in public. (ie. ¨Yo, 5-0¨ means ¨Police approaching, behave accordingly.¨) They can be a more efficient way to discuss things that are only relevant to people in that community. They provide humor and colorful metaphors. They do influence other dialects and the standard language.

Jargon is related and has many of the same purposes. Jargon is often used to determine the skill level of a worker and are also used to impress potential clients with one´s knowledge level.

If we only had our standard language it would not evolve as needed to meet changing needs. Dialects contribute to the standard language by providing more efficient an/or colorful ways of speaking.

I'm impressed HT ... dam ...

 

[Hard Truth]

....If you go to a job interview and plan on getting it, you will be speaking modern American English....

Many people, such as southerners, New Yorkers and people from other English speaking countries, are incapable of speaking Standard American English, at least the accent and pronunciation. Some may have proper standard grammar but a strong accent. A wordly person can see through the accent and detect the education level, but I bet there are some ignorant people out there who think an Indian (AKA Hindustani) who has perfect grammar speaks incorrectly and a southerner who says Y´all (actually a very useful word that should be incorporated into Standard American English) speaks correctly.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

For RabidApalca and anyone else who wants some introductory info on Standard English and African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), here are some good links:

General American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
African American Vernacular English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RabidAlpaca]

"Modern American English" includes the dialect you're criticizing which is AAVE. The dialect you're praising is Standard English. Your inability to use the correct terminology reveals your ignorance. It's fine to be ignorant about something, but when you are corrected, it's foolish to carry on with it, particularly when you are arguing that OTHER people are uneducated.


The racism is in the value judgment of a dialect primarily used by black people. By referring to that dialect as the dialect of "thugs" and unemployed "welfare recipients", you are engaging in racism.

Only with prejudiced people.


I'm concerned with the truth, not popularity. The truth is that your comment was both ignorant and racist.

You can cry and whine about PC bs all you want. You know exactly what I'm talking about. There is a ghetto dialect that smeagol is being "persecuted" because he doesn't speak it. My view is, "who gives a flying rat's ass?". Talking like a ghetto thug will not get you far in life, plain and simple, and smeagol should completely ignore these people and keep talking standard English.

But by all means, keep calling me and the rest of the working world racist. Would you go into a job interview saying "What it do, cuh? I be needinz a job to make them fat stacks, yaknowwhatimsayin?"?

For RabidApalca and anyone else who wants some introductory info on Standard English and African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), here are some good links:

General American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
African American Vernacular English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ghetto-speak is not English, it's a fringe subset of English that has no place in the modern working world. To harass somebody for not talking in a fringe subset language is ridiculous and frankly highlights the problem many african americans face with unemployment.

Many people, such as southerners, New Yorkers and people from other English speaking countries, are incapable of speaking Standard American English, at least the accent and pronunciation. Some may have proper standard grammar but a strong accent. A wordly person can see through the accent and detect the education level, but I bet there are some ignorant people out there who think an Indian (AKA Hindustani) who has perfect grammar speaks incorrectly and a southerner who says Yáll (actually a very useful word that should be incorporated into Standard American English) speaks correctly.

An accent is different from a dialect. I live and work in Germany. I have an atrocious accent, but I speak Hochdeutsch (high German), which is the standard German dialect. The area of Germany my wife comes from is very red-neck and has it's own dialect with a large subset of words that most Germans do not understand.

To succeed in the modern world you have to be able to speak the standard dialect of your country of residence.

 

[Mathematician]

Many people with bad grammar and limited vocabulary have good character, it is an indication of background and education, but not character.

Background and education reflect character.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

You can cry and whine about PC bs all you want. You know exactly what I'm talking about. There is a ghetto dialect that smeagol is being "persecuted" because he doesn't speak it. My view is, "who gives a flying rat's ass?". Talking like a ghetto thug will not get you far in life, plain and simple, and smeagol should completely ignore these people and keep talking standard English.

But by all means, keep calling me and the rest of the working world racist. Would you go into a job interview saying "What it do, cuh? I be needinz a job to make them fat stacks, yaknowwhatimsayin?"?

You know very well that I have neither "cried" nor "whined." Those are just words to people use to dismiss rather than engage with arguments they would rather avoid kind of like how people insult Smeagol for speaking the way he does instead of examining their own ignorance and insecurity.

I also haven't contested your assertion that certain dialects (like Standard English) are preferred over other dialects (like AAVE) by many mainstream employers. I've made my point and, thus, I see no reason to repeat it to someone who has no intention of carrying on this conversation in good faith.

Oh and, for the record, everything I've written thus far is based on linguistics, not political correctness. It's a bit ironic to criticize other people for being uneducated while insulting my arguments for being based in education.

 

[opendebate]

Background and education reflect character.

How so?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

You know very well that I have neither "cried" nor "whined." Those are just words to people use to dismiss rather than engage with arguments they would rather avoid kind of like how people insult Smeagol for speaking the way he does instead of examining their own ignorance.

I also haven't contested your assertion that certain dialects (like Standard English) are preferred over other dialects (like AAVE) by many mainstream employers. I've made my point and, thus, I see no reason to repeat to someone who has no intent to carry on this conversation in good faith.

You haven't made any point whatsoever. You're seriously going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that employers don't care if you speak "AAVE" or if you speak modern English? I guaran-****ing-tee you will not get a job if you go in speaking slang.

If you have any actual facts that would contradict the views of the entire working world, by all means, produce it.

I was raised in the backwoods in Texas, but I have a neutral accent. I live in the backwoods in Germany, but I speak modern high German. Speaking like the hill people will not get you a respectable job.