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If I were to wake up in Heaven

I totally misread this-

My first thought was if I was to wake up in Heaven it would be a VIP suite in Vegas surrounded by a quintet of sated but willing to have another oily romp for Girls Gone Wild All Stars. :cool:

NOW that I see this is another 'Gawd is too' mosh pit my answer is If I woke up in Heaven more than just me would be surprised. :shock:

It would mean the screening process has gone to hell and St. Peter must be off hitting his crack pipe.....again....
 
Paschendale said:
That's not the choice. The choice is to live free or submit to an all-powerful slavemaster. The god deal is literally "do what I tell you or I'll hurt you". That's slavery.
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The point is, for the most part, those who willingly choose to contradict God, generally don't believe that this action will result in them being "hurt" for it anyway. Some have even expressed as much in this thread....that they'd willingly choose an existence of "freedom" in hell over a life of obedience to God. So, where's the problem here? Still ultimately boils down to expression of free will. :shrug:



And again. You get to choose to let god tell you what to do, or you choose to make up your own mind, and suffer for it. God is the ultimate Big Brother.
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So, are you saying that people don't already make up their own minds and sometimes suffer for it?
Is the interjection of God truly required in order for this equation to work?:lol:
 
skeptical hippo said:
Part of being a loving father is punishing your children when they do bad. No doubt God loves us more than we understand but that doesn't mean that he won't punish us for the evil we have committed.
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Punishing...throughout the eternities?

I completely understand the value of choice and consequence. I believe the biblical version of hell is figurative and not literal. Far better suited to describe emotional anguish via guilt and shame than a physical construct. Just my opinion. You are of course welcome to yours.
 
good point indeed... tthe fact that a hell is something he would let exist tell me all i need to know about the tyrant
 
yes.. i suppose my great evil of not believing his follower's inconsistent stories and self contradicting books makes me deserving of him burning and torturing me forever. no matter how many people I actually help and how kind I am as a person... for not buying the B.S. i get tortured.. yes.. let's flip morality on its head shall we?
 
Paschendale said:
Because the Christian proposition (and the Muslim one, less so the Jewish one) is that we are all slaves to an all powerful parent who can treat us like property, but it's okay because he has so much power that we cannot rebel, even in our thoughts. And then this parent is supposedly good and gets to define good and evil merely because of how much power he has, despite doing lots of objectively cruel things for little or no reason. I do rage against and hate the proposition that I am a slave, and that I should be happy about it because I will be punished in horrific ways if I disagree. It seems strange to you that others get angry at this? It seems strange to me that you don't. But I guess you like being a slave.
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God gets to define good and evil because God made...everything. If you accept the proposition of an omnipotent creator god, rebelling against its authority is very definition of irrational. That his creatures have the option to do so reveals a wonderful thing about God...he wants disciples, not slaves. He wants willing participants in the glory of his creation.

You can't make the world in your own image and likeness Paschendale. All you can do is lend a hand in making the one that already exists a better one. Help heal the hurts of rebellion, don't add more hurts.
 
Risky Thicket said:
I often refer to them as "Suggestions". :)
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That's more like it. One teacher went to some trouble to explain to me that the lack of 'thou shalts...' was pretty important, and that even then translating into English the word 'right' is problematic, because it implies the opposite of 'wrong', and that's all a bit dualistic.
 
Ill instantly know when I wake up in Heaven because Gheorghe Zamfir will be there to greet me with a panflute.
 
ChuckBerry said:
That is what is meant by "we are made in the image and likeness of God".
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I don't interpret it that way. "God", if you like, has no form, no shape, no contrast, no image, no likeness, nothing. Shape, form, contrast, image are comparisons. Even "all" is a comparison and is thus incomplete and limiting.
 
Andalublue said:
That's more like it. One teacher went to some trouble to explain to me that the lack of 'thou shalts...' was pretty important, and that even then translating into English the word 'right' is problematic, because it implies the opposite of 'wrong', and that's all a bit dualistic.
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The idea that they are not "thou shalts" appears easier to understand than it actually is. I had trouble with that one as well. Of course, now I'm struggling with other concepts, but that is the way, is it not? :)
 
ChuckBerry said:
Are you helpful and kind for your own glory?

Amen, I say to you, you have already been paid.
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interesting way to view things.. i actually am kind because my conscience bothers me when i act otherwise.. not sure about glory being a factor.. because rarely are those acts of kindness rewarded or even made publicly known...
 
ChuckBerry said:
God gets to define good and evil because God made...everything. If you accept the proposition of an omnipotent creator god, rebelling against its authority is very definition of irrational. That his creatures have the option to do so reveals a wonderful thing about God...he wants disciples, not slaves. He wants willing participants in the glory of his creation.

You can't make the world in your own image and likeness Paschendale. All you can do is lend a hand in making the one that already exists a better one. Help heal the hurts of rebellion, don't add more hurts.
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That's still nothing more than proclaiming that might makes right. Power to make everything > ability to decide what's good. That's just submission to power, whether you want to or not. That's slavery. And your distinction of willing participants... that just means we're supposed to be happy in our slavery. If you cannot choose to do your own thing, and instead must submit under the threat of force, that's just slavery. That's the distinction of house slave vs field slave. They're both still slaves.
 
I think if I woke up in heaven...I would realize someone has made a huge mistake.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Thread better suited to Philosophical Discussions, moved.
 
VanceMack said:
Punishing...throughout the eternities?

I completely understand the value of choice and consequence. I believe the biblical version of hell is figurative and not literal. Far better suited to describe emotional anguish via guilt and shame than a physical construct. Just my opinion. You are of course welcome to yours.
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I would agree with you accept that Jesus had a name for the place where the people would be wailing, Ghana. Also Jesus makes very clear that many people are not going to get into heaven. I don't know how that could be figurative in any way.
 
Ray410 said:
Atheists and homosexuals who start endless threads to attack the Christian faith of others are not going to Heaven. Also I would prefer that they are not in my neighborhood.
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Bigotry from a christian?....*gasp* No no, not the perfect christian.

You make christians look bad. I suggest just sticking with the NRA.
 
grip said:
Explain?
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People believe that Hell is below us. You said that it might be here on earth.

You're going against the standard, and you could be right.
 
d0gbreath said:
People believe that Hell is below us. You said that it might be here on earth.

You're going against the standard, and you could be right.
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Oh yeah, the hell under earth myth. I personally wouldn't push my luck not knowing for sure but it seems like if you took away death, pain, grief, fear, aging, poop things like that life could be close to paradise. There might be some sort of purgatory but an eternal place of suffering doesn't really make sense.
 
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