I’m done caring about the Wall

[Skeptic Bob]

If Chuck and Nancy cave, they'll get pilloried by their own nutjob Dems (pretty much their whole Party).

Yes, they will. But I am a fan of putting country before party.

 

[Saladin4]

trump can shove the Wall funding up his ass...He is NOT getting it

 

[Rexedgar]

Shutdowns happen, but this isn’t a normal one. Yeah, Trump has two others but they were just over the weekend and Trump didn’t “win” those.

But the Wall was the foundation of Trump’s campaign. Him backing down on it will make him look foolish to his base, which is something Trump cares very much about. If Trump takes the hit and gives up on the wall that would be a bigger personal sacrifice than the Democrats would be sacrificing if they caved first. For the Dems it is an issue. For Trump it is THE issue.

I get it. The Dem base may punish the Dems for giving in and the same for the Republicans, which is why the side that takes the bullet will get a kudos from me. Not that I think that matters to them.

I looked at the link and according to it this is the first time, at least in recent history, there have been three events within a year, give or take.

How about this? Which side has more to lose by “caving.”

You seem to indicate Trump, but if Chuck and Nancy “cave” doesn’t that embolden POTUS?

This madness has to stop somewhere, is now not as good a time as at some later point?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

They had two years to pass it, the Republican Senate didn't. Why didn't they Skeptic Bob?
You know the House AND the Senate (Republicans!!) both had already passed spending for border security and the government in general, but Trump is the one after listening to his partisan pundits (Rush, etc.), decided he had to go back on his agreement to pass it?

Why isn't Mitch McConnell putting the spending that passed the House, up for a vote...when it's the same thing they already passed? Do you think if they did that, that Trump might go back to his ORIGINAL agreement to approve the bill?
You're talking about Dems vs Trump, but it was Republicans vs Trump a short few days ago.
And it's Mitch McConnell not putting it up for a Senate vote...no one mentions that..why?

What's going on is that the Republican congress doesn't want to pass the wall either. But rather than take the blame and piss Trump off, they kicked the can until Dems took the House, and are now ensuring they stay as hidden from the spotlight as possible. Senate will likely have no real wall passed, but rather than take the heat themselves, it will fall on Democrats.

I get that you don't care about the politics, but it's politics.

I largely agree with all of that.

 

[jnug]

Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

Given that Trump has a propensity to want things he can not define, things that exist in his mind as monuments to himself, more power to the dems.

 

[jnug]

They had two years to pass it, the Republican Senate didn't. Why didn't they Skeptic Bob?
You know the House AND the Senate (Republicans!!) both had already passed spending for border security and the government in general, but Trump is the one after listening to his partisan pundits (Rush, etc.), decided he had to go back on his agreement to pass it?

Why isn't Mitch McConnell putting the spending that passed the House, up for a vote...when it's the same thing they already passed? Do you think if they did that, that Trump might go back to his ORIGINAL agreement to approve the bill?
You're talking about Dems vs Trump, but it was Republicans vs Trump a short few days ago.
And it's Mitch McConnell not putting it up for a Senate vote...no one mentions that..why?

What's going on is that the Republican congress doesn't want to pass the wall either. But rather than take the blame and piss Trump off, they kicked the can until Dems took the House, and are now ensuring they stay as hidden from the spotlight as possible. Senate will likely have no real wall passed, but rather than take the heat themselves, it will fall on Democrats.

I get that you don't care about the politics, but it's politics.

Spot on...absolutely spot on.

Trump has miscalculated both the GOP politicians enthusiasm for his Wall and his Base's insistence on it. GOP politicians have no enthusiasm for it and his Base only uses it as a boost of ideological adrenaline. GOP pols just want this to go away and Trump's Base now knows that a new adrenaline boost is only a news cycle away.

 

[markjs]

Trump hates the holidays anyway...they are not about him.

Well he's outraged, and 'murica should be too! Christmas would be a much more MAGA holiday if it celebrated the birth of baby Trump, not some insignifigant dessert hippie Jew-king. Someone who really made something of his life, not some loser on a crucafix!

God you libruls are so dumm!

 

[OscarLevant]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

The only person making this an issue is Donald Trump and the Republicans, Democrats are just responding trying to countermand their foolishness

 

[Grand Mal]

Well he's outraged, and 'murica should be too! Christmas would be a much more MAGA holiday if it celebrated the birth of baby Trump, not some insignifigant dessert hippie Jew-king. Someone who really made something of his life, not some loser on a crucafix!

God you libruls are so dumm!

Trump likes saviours that don't get crucified?

 

[Airyaman]

If Chuck and Nancy cave, they'll get pilloried by their own nutjob Dems (pretty much their whole Party).

And if Trump caves, what will be the reaction from yourself and other Trump supporters?

 

[markjs]

Trump likes saviours that don't get crucified?

No, you missed the commandment.

Thou shalt have no false demogogues, or autocrats, only TRUMP (and lot's of "executive time" watching Fox & Friends for moral support) can save us now!:roll:

 

[markjs]

And if Trump caves, what will be the reaction from yourself and other Trump supporters?

He had to, the dirty lying democrats would have layed false blame on him. Trump's ego must be protected!

No fault can go Trump's way, if he caves it will be Rino McConne'ls fault for letting Chuck and Nancy bully him. Everyone knows Trump fears nothing and no one, he's a man of steel, a patriot of on era past! Everyone knows this, keep up man?

:roll:

 

[Grand Mal]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

Problem is (one problem, anyway) there's no way of knowing how much money you're talking about wasting. $5B? The new bridge over San Francisco Bay is $6.something billion and steel is 25% more expensive now thanks to the tariffs. It'll be like the government is taxing itself.
Another problem is the American people have in no way approved of the wall. Most Americans voted for Clinton and elected a Democratic house so Trump is basically dictating from a minority position. Seen that way the Democratic Party is obliged, has a duty, to resist it.

 

[Rexedgar]

To the OP title, “I’m done caring about the wall”

That’s what they want; boiling you slowly........

 

[radioman]

And if Trump caves, what will be the reaction from yourself and other Trump supporters?

I think most supporters will excuse Trump's antics as a brilliant negotiating maneuver where he somehow achieved more than was originally offered.
Art of the deal and all that.
The fact that he actually gained nothing won't matter.
The fact that Trump says he gained something is all that will matter to die-hard Trumpsters.

 

[Mr Person]

Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

But their credibility won't matter in those circumstances. What will matter is that it worked and Trump will be emboldened.

Even if in some future hypothetical Trump eventually caved, it would be after an even longer more damaging shutdown. I'd also expect it used more frequently. Remember: this guy does not give half a ****.


I'd say the best bet is fighting it out now, once and for all: no more taking hostages and issuing demands like this.



I doubt Trump would even have thought of doing this if the GOP hadn't picked up the tactic under Obama.

 

[Mr Person]

It's hard to say repeatedly since there is only on more (must pass) 'budget' round left in his first term.

By no means am I betting that he loses. The Dems do a spectacular job of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

See above, also. Even if it is just once more, he'll reach for more and it will last longer, be worse. If he loses hard now, it might just be the end of this under him or future GOP admins. This isn't the first time the GOP did this sort of thing.

They're trying to find ways to control policy even after getting knocked out of the majority. I hope the Dems don't let them.


And again, this is important:

They had two years to pass it, the Republican Senate didn't. Why didn't they Skeptic Bob?
You know the House AND the Senate (Republicans!!) both had already passed spending for border security and the government in general, but Trump is the one after listening to his partisan pundits (Rush, etc.), decided he had to go back on his agreement to pass it?

Why isn't Mitch McConnell putting the spending that passed the House, up for a vote...when it's the same thing they already passed? Do you think if they did that, that Trump might go back to his ORIGINAL agreement to approve the bill?
You're talking about Dems vs Trump, but it was Republicans vs Trump a short few days ago.
And it's Mitch McConnell not putting it up for a Senate vote...no one mentions that..why?

What's going on is that the Republican congress doesn't want to pass the wall either. But rather than take the blame and piss Trump off, they kicked the can until Dems took the House, and are now ensuring they stay as hidden from the spotlight as possible. Senate will likely have no real wall passed, but rather than take the heat themselves, it will fall on Democrats.

I get that you don't care about the politics, but it's politics.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

Yup.
Reward hostage takers and watch as they commence taking more and bigger hostages, again and again and again.
We do not negotiate with terrorists.

This is about Trump's ego and his base.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's symbolic.

Yup, and I prefer to leave symbols to the "symbol minded."

(borrowed from George Carlin)

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

Nope, once you have rewarded this kind of behavior you are "marked men".

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Trump hates the holidays anyway...they are not about him.

Yeah they are!

 

[Mr Person]

Yup.
Reward hostage takers and watch as they commence taking more and bigger hostages, again and again and again.
We do not negotiate with terrorists.

This is about Trump's ego and his base.

And I should clarify: by "cave" I mean for the Dems to give up without getting anything that makes it worth it.

If Trump wants to get his entire wall for enshrining DACA in law (and I suppose bringing back any other previously DACA-eligible/participating people the swine has deported), that's fine by me. It's a stupid useless wall, but that deal does a lot more good than harm, imo....

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I looked at the link and according to it this is the first time, at least in recent history, there have been three events within a year, give or take.

How about this? Which side has more to lose by “caving.”

You seem to indicate Trump, but if Chuck and Nancy “cave” doesn’t that embolden POTUS?

This madness has to stop somewhere, is now not as good a time as at some later point?

It has to stop with the Democrats taking the House, and actually TAKING the House, not acting as Trump's rubber stamp.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

"...and Trump's Base now knows that a new adrenaline boost is only a news cycle away."

Trumpism IS a DRUG, as hardcore a drug as crack cocaine, heroin, meth or any opiate.

 

[Evilroddy]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

Skeptic Bob:

So you've hit the wall on wall-related matter. Hadrian and Antonius had their walls and now would-be Emperor Trump wants to join their rather exclusive club. I blame it all on Emperor Qin Shi Huang (AKA Ying Zheng) who started this obsession with building great walls.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.