I’m done caring about the Wall

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And I should clarify: by "cave" I mean for the Dems to give up without getting anything that makes it worth it.

If Trump wants to get his entire wall for enshrining DACA in law (and I suppose bringing back any other previously DACA-eligible/participating people the swine has deported), that's fine by me. It's a stupid useless wall, but that deal does a lot more good than harm, imo....

Maybe, but I would like to see the DACA deal in full detail before signing off on it, and no poison pills that destroy Social Security and Medicare, or education, inserted at the last minute either.
When the Dems GET something, they actually get something.

Clean deal or NO deal, let the chips fall where they may, it's going to land on Trump when they do.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

As will Coulter, Limbaugh and Fox. Who's actually POTUS, anyway?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As will Coulter, Limbaugh and Fox. Who's actually POTUS, anyway?

Who? Vladimir Putin.

 

[ttwtt78640]

By no means am I betting that he loses. The Dems do a spectacular job of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

See above, also. Even if it is just once more, he'll reach for more and it will last longer, be worse. If he loses hard now, it might just be the end of this under him or future GOP admins. This isn't the first time the GOP did this sort of thing.

They're trying to find ways to control policy even after getting knocked out of the majority. I hope the Dems don't let them.

The best bet for the demorats would be to let Trump have the $5B in border barrier funding and then in a few months (8 max) evaluate how many miles of the Great Wall Of Trump (GWOT) have been completed by the time the next 'budget' bills are due to be passed. It will be even harder for Trump to say that he needs more GWOT funding if the existing GWOT funding has either not been spent or has added only a few miles of "super duper" border security barriers. Even if Trump managed to spend the whole $5B and add 500 miles of "super duper" border barriers that would be at cost of $10M/mile while 4 lane "super duper" interstate highways cost about $10M/mile (or less) to build.

 

[Tangmo]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

No one needs to have a side to know you're cheerfully confused which is why you're signing out on the issue.

 

[beancounter]

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

Eminent domain should make everyone freak out.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

So...acting like a coequal branch of government? That is different than holding the government hostage by keeping it shut down over one issue.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Who? Vladimir Putin.

To a degree. Trump seems to have Vlad's back, but I don't think Vlad cares about this stuff.

 

[jnug]

The best bet for the demorats would be to let Trump have the $5B in border barrier funding and then in a few months (8 max) evaluate how many miles of the Great Wall Of Trump (GWOT) have been completed by the time the next 'budget' bills are due to be passed. It will be even harder for Trump to say that he needs more GWOT funding if the existing GWOT funding has either not been spent or has added only a few miles of "super duper" border security barriers. Even if Trump managed to spend the whole $5B and add 500 miles of "super duper" border barriers that would be at cost of $10M/mile while 4 lane "super duper" interstate highways cost about $10M/mile (or less) to build.

Hasn't spent the last $1.3B yet. Nope...he gets another $1.3B or he gets nothing. My choice...NOTHING until he actually makes a proposal for the money. But if absolutely pushed to it I might grudgingly give him another $1.3B.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

Allowing a con-man to have his way to placate his followers whom he conned into voting for him by promising them a wall that would be paid for by another country, and he never really had the slightest notion it would get built anyway, is like letting a small child have it's way so it won't cry. You're not helping the baby (or, in this case, it's followers), you're just teaching it (them) to cry when it can't get it's way. Everyone is much better off if you just teach the baby what NO means.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Skeptic Bob:

So you've hit the wall on wall-related matter. Hadrian and Antonius had their walls and now would-be Emperor Trump wants to join their rather exclusive club. I blame it all on Emperor Qin Shi Huang (AKA Ying Zheng) who started this obsession with building great walls.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I’ve hit my wall on the Wall. I like that.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

To a degree. Trump seems to have Vlad's back, but I don't think Vlad cares about this stuff.

What he cares about is sowing weapons grade extremism and divisiveness, followed by massive social unrest and the breakdown of civil order. Anything that enables that, anything at all, is peachy as far as he's concerned.

 

[Rexedgar]

Eminent domain should make everyone freak out.

Can anyone tell me WTF is the “military version” of eminent domain?


Similar to the 2nd A comments after LasVegas that they take the guns and then “see about due process” until the NRA whispered into his ear.



https://usat.ly/2oGXpxd

 

[Fletch]

Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

And if Trump caves, democrats will do what? Start acting like adults?

 

[Fletch]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

Thank you Bob, its good to see someone on the left exhibit some common sense. Pass a couple billion for enhanced boarder security and the upgrade of some existing fence and move on.

 

[SoCal]

I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now.

Your attitude reminds me of a new parent who freaks out and promises to give his two year old everything he wants as long as he doesn't hold his breath.

Trump might be holding his breath for a stupid issue, but at some point the parent has to assert his authority over his spoiled, ill-mannered brat...

 

[JustHanging]

Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

That's the problem: Trump is a moron who is too lazy to put in the hard work to learn about a subject and then figure out a solution. If he discovers blackmail works, he will continue to use it until it doesn't work.

And each time Trump is successful, it just ensures that Trump's next blackmail tantrum will be longer and louder.

 

[JustHanging]

And if Trump caves, democrats will do what? Start acting like adults?

Dems aren't the ones blackmailing the nation. If you've raised children, you would recognize that Trump is throwing a temper tantrum like a six year old, and your strategy is to give in to the tantrum.

As a parent, let me assure you that strategy never works. All it does is ensure that the next tantrum will be longer and louder.

 

[Mach]

Trump has miscalculated both the GOP politicians enthusiasm for his Wall and his Base's insistence on it.

Exactly. When you enter a high stakes negotiation like Trump did, and he ****s it up, he's gonna need to pay the price in the negotiation. Everyone was on board, even Trump, until at the last minute he pulled the rug out from under them because he got scared based on right wing partisan propaganda media.

He slipped up in the negotiation, to reward that is absurd.

He's not a leader, he's being led. When it's not Putin pulling his strings on international affairs, it's right wing media steering him.

 

[markjs]

Exactly. When you enter a high stakes negotiation like Trump did, and he ****s it up, he's gonna need to pay the price in the negotiation. Everyone was on board, even Trump, until at the last minute he pulled the rug out from under them because he got scared based on right wing partisan propaganda media.

He slipped up in the negotiation, to reward that is absurd.

He's not a leader, he's being led. When it's not Putin pulling his strings on international affairs, it's right wing media steering him.

Which was all part of Putin's plan too. At this point I'd find it unsurprising if when all this is said and done if Sean Hannity isn't on the indictment list, prolly chats with Putin at night when he's not chatting with King TangFace.:roll:

 

[Fletch]

Dems aren't the ones blackmailing the nation. If you've raised children, you would recognize that Trump is throwing a temper tantrum like a six year old, and your strategy is to give in to the tantrum.

As a parent, let me assure you that strategy never works. All it does is ensure that the next tantrum will be longer and louder.

Was Obama 'throwing a temper tantrum' when he refused to sign any funding bill that didnt fully fund Obamacare? Politics is the art of compromise. Trump wants (A) dems agree to (A) if Trump agrees to give the dems (B) which they want. This is an insignificant argument over an insignificant sum that has turned into a political death match. Both sides have painted themselves into a corner and there doesnt seem to be a way out.

 

[Fletch]

Exactly. When you enter a high stakes negotiation like Trump did, and he ****s it up, he's gonna need to pay the price in the negotiation. Everyone was on board, even Trump, until at the last minute he pulled the rug out from under them because he got scared based on right wing partisan propaganda media.

He slipped up in the negotiation, to reward that is absurd.

He's not a leader, he's being led. When it's not Putin pulling his strings on international affairs, it's right wing media steering him.

Well, you were making a certain degree of sense until you injected that Russian Trutherism at the end and destroyed your credibility. Oh well.

 

[JustHanging]

Was Obama 'throwing a temper tantrum' when he refused to sign any funding bill that didnt fully fund Obamacare?
Politics is the art of compromise. Trump wants (A) dems agree to (A) if Trump agrees to give the dems (B) which they want. This is an insignificant argument over an insignificant sum that has turned into a political death match. Both sides have painted themselves into a corner and there doesnt seem to be a way out.

The problem with your entire argument is that unlike Obama, Trump is too lazy to learn the basics about any topic, let alone enough to come up with a solution that makes sense.

So if he discovers throwing a temper tantrum works, like any six year old he will keep throwing temper tantrums until they don't work, with each tantrum being longer and louder than the last.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Was Obama 'throwing a temper tantrum' when he refused to sign any funding bill that didnt fully fund Obamacare? Politics is the art of compromise. Trump wants (A) dems agree to (A) if Trump agrees to give the dems (B) which they want. This is an insignificant argument over an insignificant sum that has turned into a political death match. Both sides have painted themselves into a corner and there doesnt seem to be a way out.

#WhataboutObama?

This is Trump. What is Trump offering the dems in exchange for the money he said would come from Mexico?

 

[Fletch]

The problem with your entire argument is that unlike Obama, Trump is too lazy to learn the basics about any topic, let along enough to come up with a solution that makes sense.

So if he discovers throwing a temper tantrum works, like any six year old he will keep throwing temper tantrums until they don't work, with each tantrum being longer and louder than the last.

You dems have been throwing a temper tantrum for the last two years. We survived it.