• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

I’m done caring about the Wall

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now. ;)
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
59,176
Reaction score
49,460
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.
 

Kobie

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
48,281
Reaction score
25,273
Location
Western NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

Exactly. They simply cannot give in to this asshole, especially on something that won't accomplish anything.
 

ecofarm

global liberation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
133,426
Reaction score
43,216
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's symbolic.
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
50,688
Reaction score
38,059
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I don’t think Trump anticipated the blow-back his Administration was going to get over this maneuver.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
89,792
Reaction score
53,457
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

It's hard to say repeatedly since there is only on more (must pass) 'budget' round left in his first term.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
50,688
Reaction score
38,059
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

ecofarm

global liberation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
133,426
Reaction score
43,216
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I like symbolism...in art.

My remark was in reference to this:

And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
89,819
Reaction score
38,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Dems cave and Trump will use this repeatedly. I think it's rather short-sighted to approach it as if it's just about 5 billion for just part of his wall.

If Chuck and Nancy cave, they'll get pilloried by their own nutjob Dems (pretty much their whole Party).
 

Mach

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
23,693
Reaction score
16,868
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

They had two years to pass it, the Republican Senate didn't. Why didn't they Skeptic Bob?
You know the House AND the Senate (Republicans!!) both had already passed spending for border security and the government in general, but Trump is the one after listening to his partisan pundits (Rush, etc.), decided he had to go back on his agreement to pass it?

Why isn't Mitch McConnell putting the spending that passed the House, up for a vote...when it's the same thing they already passed? Do you think if they did that, that Trump might go back to his ORIGINAL agreement to approve the bill?
You're talking about Dems vs Trump, but it was Republicans vs Trump a short few days ago.
And it's Mitch McConnell not putting it up for a Senate vote...no one mentions that..why?

What's going on is that the Republican congress doesn't want to pass the wall either. But rather than take the blame and piss Trump off, they kicked the can until Dems took the House, and are now ensuring they stay as hidden from the spotlight as possible. Senate will likely have no real wall passed, but rather than take the heat themselves, it will fall on Democrats.

I get that you don't care about the politics, but it's politics.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
50,688
Reaction score
38,059
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If Chuck and Nancy cave, they'll get pilloried by their own nutjob Dems (pretty much their whole Party).

Christmas and New Years were all set until the RWN talking heads “pilloried” Trump for signing a bill with no “wall/fence/barrier/insert synonym here!”

I still cannot figure out why Trump played the martyr and stayed “all alone” in DC. He can’t be worried about appearances! :shrug:
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
89,792
Reaction score
53,457
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I’m done with the Wall as an issue. Both sides have blown this thing way out of proportion. I don’t believe it is going to curb illegal immigration to a significant amount. And I don’t believe the Wall will hurt us as a nation either.

Yeah, it is a dumb waste of money IMO, but we waste more money on dumber things that people don’t freak out over.

The only real harm will be to the landowner’s property rights along the border. The courts will handle those eminent domain cases. But again, eminent domain cases aren’t something that typically makes the whole country freak out.

So whichever side “caves” first, is going to get a kudos from me. I won’t view them as a loser or weak. I will view them as the side that finally decided to put the good of the country before winning on this stupid issue.

I’m done pissing off both sides now. ;)

Once Pelosi defined a physical barrier on the border as being "immoral" she painted herself into a corner.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
89,819
Reaction score
38,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Christmas and New Years were all set until the RWN talking heads “pilloried” Trump for signing a bill with no “wall/fence/barrier/insert synonym here!”

I still cannot figure out why Trump played the martyr and stayed “all alone” in DC. He can’t be worried about appearances! :shrug:

shrug...

What does this have to do with what I said about Chuck and Nancy?

Oh, wait...I forgot. When you have nothing to say, talk about Trump.

Carry on...
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
63,979
Reaction score
25,293
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Sure, but the moment he shows it is a pattern then the Dems can refuse and will have an even stronger case. They will have more credibility in refusing even MORE things Trump might want.

LOL If they cave on this Trump will use it as a club to beat on the Democrats again and again. Calling them weak is a dream for him. Besides it is Trump's shutdown and the people know it. The Dems will never cave on this. The GOP Senators will though and pass a clean bill with more than 66 votes. They need to be the adults in the room or they will lose their seats in 2020.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
50,688
Reaction score
38,059
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
shrug...

What does this have to do with what I said about Chuck and Nancy?

Oh, wait...I forgot. When you have nothing to say, talk about Trump.

Carry on...

Just proves the old adage about horses and water........
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
89,819
Reaction score
38,798
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
They had two years to pass it, the Republican Senate didn't. Why didn't they Skeptic Bob?

During those two years, no spending bills could get passed without some Dem votes. Add to that the fact that some Reps are committed to oppose Trump just as much as the Dems are, and there's your answer.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
63,979
Reaction score
25,293
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Christmas and New Years were all set until the RWN talking heads “pilloried” Trump for signing a bill with no “wall/fence/barrier/insert synonym here!”

I still cannot figure out why Trump played the martyr and stayed “all alone” in DC. He can’t be worried about appearances! :shrug:

Trump hates the holidays anyway...they are not about him.
 
Last edited:

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
63,979
Reaction score
25,293
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
During those two years, no spending bills could get passed without some Dem votes. Add to that the fact that some Reps are committed to oppose Trump just as much as the Dems are, and there's your answer.

Because most sane people know that the mythical Wall was/is not a real proposal especially when Trump had everyone chanting Mexico will pay. How real was that? Trump did not even include money for the wall in his OWN budget this year either. Why was that?
 

Amelia

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
10,933
Reaction score
9,048
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I don’t think Trump anticipated the blow-back his Administration was going to get over this maneuver.

At least not at the time that he promised he would take credit for it.

He's just showing his stupidity again, and I'm actually yawning about it, because it's getting so old.
 

Mach

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
23,693
Reaction score
16,868
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
During those two years, no spending bills could get passed without some Dem votes. Add to that the fact that some Reps are committed to oppose Trump just as much as the Dems are, and there's your answer.
And they agreed to pass legislation that included money for border security without The Wall, and it was Trump...only Trump..., who refused to sign it.
That's after Trump had agreed he would, and Mike "the puppet" Pence delivered that message to Congress who was preparing to head off for vacation.

This is Trump's dilemma, he is the one that chose to use government shutdown to negotiate it.
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I think I read that this is the third shutdown on Trump’s watch. What constitutes a “pattern?”

Shutdowns happen, but this isn’t a normal one. Yeah, Trump has two others but they were just over the weekend and Trump didn’t “win” those.

But the Wall was the foundation of Trump’s campaign. Him backing down on it will make him look foolish to his base, which is something Trump cares very much about. If Trump takes the hit and gives up on the wall that would be a bigger personal sacrifice than the Democrats would be sacrificing if they caved first. For the Dems it is an issue. For Trump it is THE issue.

I get it. The Dem base may punish the Dems for giving in and the same for the Republicans, which is why the side that takes the bullet will get a kudos from me. Not that I think that matters to them. :)
 

ecofarm

global liberation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
133,426
Reaction score
43,216
Location
Miami
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
During those two years, no spending bills could get passed without some Dem votes. Add to that the fact that some Reps are committed to oppose Trump just as much as the Dems are, and there's your answer.

You're describing a failure to lead, to compromise, to bring sides together for deals. If I was a Trump promoter, I don't think I'd use that as the reason.
 

benlow68

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
emperor trump is like a 3 year old throwing a fit to get a piece of candy from his mother. Anyone who has been a parent knows you should never cave to your whiny ass kid. If the dems cave then they are enabling his bad behavior
 
Top Bottom