How it all went wrong (again) in Europe as second wave grips continent

[snakestretcher]

That's good to hear about the retail experience, but how has at been with pubs? I remember reading that there were issues with compliance in that particular type of business.

In Britain pubs are having real problems. For a start they're mostly physically small establishments so anything approaching social distancing is an impossibility for many. We have, from today, imposed a 10pm curfew for pubs which will have a huge negative impact on the hospitality sector. Pubs are essentially a social hub and have become a depressing, cold and unpleasantly unattractive experience. Johnson has warned that this could continue for six months unless people learn, and fast, what their social responsibilities are in regard to the virus.

 

[HennyBogan]

You need a dose of reality mate. Sweden's death rate is exponentially greater than any of her Scandinavian neighbours.

You guys got a reality check in the cricket the other day when our Aussie team thumped your pasty POME team.
Sweden are doing better than their neighbours and Europe right now >> low case numbers per million population

 

[HennyBogan]

In Britain pubs are having real problems. For a start they're mostly physically small establishments so anything approaching social distancing is an impossibility for many. We have, from today, imposed a 10pm curfew for pubs which will have a huge negative impact on the hospitality sector. Pubs are essentially a social hub and have become a depressing, cold and unpleasantly unattractive experience. Johnson has warned that this could continue for six months unless people learn, and fast, what their social responsibilities are in regard to the virus.

English pubs have always been depressing, cold and an unattractive experience, you got that part right!

 

[snakestretcher]

You guys got a reality check in the cricket the other day when our Aussie team thumped your pasty POME team.
Sweden are doing better than their neighbours and Europe right now >> low case numbers per million population

Cricket doesn't interest me in the slightest, never has. And you can quote per million numbers all day long; the number of deaths is what matters, and Sweden is well ahead of her neighbours in that respect-hence their bans on visitors from Sweden..

 

[HennyBogan]

Cricket doesn't interest me in the slightest, never has. And you can quote per million numbers all day long; the number of deaths is what matters, and Sweden is well ahead of her neighbours in that respect-hence their bans on visitors from Sweden..

No sport would interest POME lads, they lose at everything

 

[snakestretcher]

No sport would interest POME lads, they lose at everything

Except the Rugby World Cup against Australia. In Sydney!

 

[Chomsky]

He did not. He makes mistake after mistake and his government lies like there is no tomorrow.

The Health Minister claims 100+k tests being done, and when the media investigates it is in reality half of that at best. How did he get the 100k tests? Oh yea, you see, the British send out testing kits to people, and that is registered as 1 test.. it is not registered as a test when it is received at a testing centre and is actually you know.. tested. The infuriating part is that the British media has not kept calling the Boris government out on this shit, and continue to allow the government ministers to spread their bs without much of a push back..

Government says there are enough tests, and yet people are being directed 100s km to test centres. Tory member of Parliament asks the Health Minister for help for more tests in his constituency. Minister says yes they are building a new testing centre... MP asks, in my town.. Minister says well... in X town, which is 100 km away. Yes that was a conversation that happened a few days ago.

Basically every country has its problems and governments are doing poorly or good, depending on how that country is set up and realities on the ground and of course politics. But for the most part their policies are some what logical and based on science. But the worst country in Western Europe is by far the UK. The absolute incompetence of the conservative government under Boris Johnston is staggering. They dont even have a track and trace system up and running that works.....Everything is run from London so there is zero local knowledge. One could compare their system to a call centre in India... and that might be more effective. Or the fact that the UK did not stop traveling to the UK before May or June, and then put in idiotic rules that were not enforced and are still pretty much not enforced.. All other countries stopped international travel in February or March. The list of incompetence goes on and on.. and yes it almost makes Trump look professional... almost..

Sounds like Trump, to be honest.

 

[PeteEU]

Sounds like Trump, to be honest.

The difference is that Trump does not give a shit and does nothing.. Boris attempts to do something for the public image and fails big time.

 

[Chomsky]

The difference is that Trump does not give a shit and does nothing.. Boris attempts to do something for the public image and fails big time.

Yeah, but similar attitudes in ways. Though I admit Boris is not as bad as Trump.

 

[ElChupacabra]

In Britain pubs are having real problems. For a start they're mostly physically small establishments so anything approaching social distancing is an impossibility for many. We have, from today, imposed a 10pm curfew for pubs which will have a huge negative impact on the hospitality sector. Pubs are essentially a social hub and have become a depressing, cold and unpleasantly unattractive experience. Johnson has warned that this could continue for six months unless people learn, and fast, what their social responsibilities are in regard to the virus.

Yeah, I remember how engrained into the social culture pubs are from the numerous times I've spent time in England. The after work trips to the pub were always a lot of fun; and I'm not much of a drinker.

 

[ElChupacabra]

English pubs have always been depressing, cold and an unattractive experience, you got that part right!

Sounds like you went to the wrong ones.

 

[Mongidig]

We wil get a second wave.

Bookmark this thread.

New York and other states that locked down the hardest are going to get hit with a big second wave. The virus has been patiently waiting. They should have gradually opened back up. The states that didn't lock down hard will probably fair the best in the end.

 

[JasperL]

How it all went wrong (again) in Europe as second wave grips continent - CNN

But Europe can take some comfort from experience. Professor Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh, told CNN earlier this month that the initial lockdown was "never, ever going to solve the problem for us in Europe or anywhere else; it was simply deferring it."

----------------------------

I just don't know. If Europe, South Korea, New Zealand can't even open up without increasing case numbers, as strict, dedicated and cautious as they are ( especially compared to people in the United States), maybe this thing is going to beat us. Depressing news.

You need to put those numbers in perspective.

S. Korea is seeing a 'resurgence' all right. They are about 1/7th of the population and are seeing deaths increase all the way up to....checks notes.... a 7 day moving average of THREE (3) deaths per day. On a per capita basis in the U.S. that would be a whopping 21 per day.

New Zealand has had....FIVE (5) total deaths for May, June, July, August and through Sept. 25th. Not per day, total. So, yes, their 'case numbers' are going up but they've done great jobs managing COVID, and we can only dream that our 'increasing' numbers would be anything like their results.

 

[JasperL]

The common denominator is it's being spread by mostly younger people now. How did colleges not know there would be frat parties? How did Europe not know that there would be heavy partying and groups getting together while they were on holiday? It's time to focus on restricting the younger crowds.

I can't speak to all colleges, but UTK knew there would be, banned them, then imposed pretty severe consequences on those who organized non-sanctioned big parties off campus or on. The actions mostly worked. Right at the beginning cases went up to about 800 students, but after there were more restrictions imposed that number nose-dived to about 100 or so as we speak, almost all students. They got the message, and are still able to have in person classes, small group gatherings, etc. just not the big super-spreader events, like off campus drunken parties.

 

[JasperL]

Yup. Protect those at the highest risk and let everyone else go on with their lives. Lockdowns were always foolish.

How does one "protect those at the highest risk" while letting everyone else proceed as normal, and why hasn't any state or country managed this allegedly simple task?

 

[JasperL]

New York and other states that locked down the hardest are going to get hit with a big second wave. The virus has been patiently waiting. They should have gradually opened back up. The states that didn't lock down hard will probably fair the best in the end.

That might be true, but you have to be careful about drawing cause and effect relationships there. The states hit the hardest locked down the hardest, and those states are not coincidentally those with the big population centers, big cities, high concentrations of people, public transportation, big travel or economic hubs that see lots of people from other regions pass through.

 

[CaughtInThe]

New York and other states that locked down the hardest are going to get hit with a big second wave. The virus has been patiently waiting. They should have gradually opened back up. The states that didn't lock down hard will probably fair the best in the end.

you mean the ones with less people...

 

[distraff]

How it all went wrong (again) in Europe as second wave grips continent - CNN

But Europe can take some comfort from experience. Professor Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh, told CNN earlier this month that the initial lockdown was "never, ever going to solve the problem for us in Europe or anywhere else; it was simply deferring it."

----------------------------

I just don't know. If Europe, South Korea, New Zealand can't even open up without increasing case numbers, as strict, dedicated and cautious as they are ( especially compared to people in the United States), maybe this thing is going to beat us. Depressing news.

The problems with Europe is that they failed to do the quarantine measures China did to virtually eradicate the virus. As a result, the virus was still around and required social distancing and mask wearing rules to keep the number of cases down. If people slack off, we see cases go up again. Keeping these measures around hurts the economy. In the US, we had milder measures. The economy was still hurt a lot but not as much, but we also had more deaths. If we don't intend to eradicate the virus with a quarantine, then the American approach is superior. We can't do major damage the the economy just to save some lives. But we should prevent the virus from getting out of control and overwhelming the healthcare system.

 

[Paradoxical]

That’s terrible news. Someone better come up with an effective vaccine real soon. The social rubber band is about to snap.

Mother Nature is calling. Think you can beat her?

 

[Paradoxical]

you mean the ones with less people...

Who would get the flu worse. People living in sardine cans like NYC, New Jersey, Mass., Conn. or people living in Montana? Is this some sort of revelation?

Mother nature loves a herd that is in a pen.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Neithe

You need to put those numbers in perspective.

S. Korea is seeing a 'resurgence' all right. They are about 1/7th of the population and are seeing deaths increase all the way up to....checks notes.... a 7 day moving average of THREE (3) deaths per day. On a per capita basis in the U.S. that would be a whopping 21 per day.

New Zealand has had....FIVE (5) total deaths for May, June, July, August and through Sept. 25th. Not per day, total. So, yes, their 'case numbers' are going up but they've done great jobs managing COVID, and we can only dream that our 'increasing' numbers would be anything like their results.

Neither are in Europe...

 

[Metric Mouse]

The problems with Europe is that they failed to do the quarantine measures China did to virtually eradicate the virus. As a result, the virus was still around and required social distancing and mask wearing rules to keep the number of cases down. If people slack off, we see cases go up again. Keeping these measures around hurts the economy. In the US, we had milder measures. The economy was still hurt a lot but not as much, but we also had more deaths. If we don't intend to eradicate the virus with a quarantine, then the American approach is superior. We can't do major damage the the economy just to save some lives. But we should prevent the virus from getting out of control and overwhelming the healthcare system.

It will be interesting to see the economic numbers later, I suppose. Doesn't help all the deaths; hard to put a price on tens of thousands of dead Americans.

 

[Overitall]

Mother Nature is calling. Think you can beat her?

Only if Father Time tells her to back off.

 

[JasperL]

Neithe
Neither are in Europe...

I know that. So what? Quoting YOU:

I just don't know. If Europe, South Korea, New Zealand can't even open up without increasing case numbers, as strict, dedicated and cautious as they are ( especially compared to people in the United States), maybe this thing is going to beat us. Depressing news.

Don't blame me for addressing your examples.

 

[Paradoxical]

Only if Father Time tells her to back off.

He doesn't care. He has all the time in the world.