How do you think the shutdown is most likely to end?

[Cardinal]

Taken directly from the twitter poll started by Steve Vladeck.
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1081007243980623872

1) Trump backs down; no wall
2) Democrats back down; agree to fund wall
3) Enough Republican Senators join Democrats and override a veto
4) Will be settled by whoever wins in 2020 (for all intents and purposes, shutdown continues in perpetuity and is handled by next legislative and executive makeup)

 

[Moderate Right]

Taken directly from the twitter poll started by Steve Vladeck.
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1081007243980623872

1) Trump backs down; no wall
2) Democrats back down; agree to fund wall
3) Enough Republican Senators join Democrats and override a veto
4) Will be settled by whoever wins in 2020 (for all intents and purposes, shutdown continues in perpetuity and is handled by next legislative and executive makeup)

Trump backs down and ends the government shutdown and declares a national emergency and builds the wall anyway.

 

[Rosie1]

I have no idea. But, if the military is not getting paid, why should Senate, Congress, Cabinet members and White House staffers?

 

[Dittohead not!]

Right now, it looks like neither side will budge and no negotiations or compromises are possible. It looks as if nothing will happen until the people march on Washington and demand that the public servants, as that's what the president and Congress are supposed to be, do their (insert expletive here) jobs and quit acting like spoiled children.

 

[DiAnna]

It will end when the GOP-led Senate gets enough calls from their constituents to pass the bi-partisan House bills and override any Trump veto.

There aren't any heroes on either side of congressional aisles today, and the losers are the American people.

 

[DiAnna]

Trump backs down and ends the government shutdown and declares a national emergency and builds the wall anyway.

Which congress will immediately challenge, file for an injunction, and by the time it winds through the court system, Trump will be out of office... one way or another.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Each side will have to give a little to get a little.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Each side will have to give a little to get a little.

Good advice for Mitch McConnell, who won't listen to it.

 

[MTAtech]

Trump backs down and ends the government shutdown and declares a national emergency and builds the wall anyway.

That is patently unconstitutional. It's laughable to think that a president can merely declare and emergency to get around Congress' power of the purse. This isn't just my opinion but also one of Bruce Ackerman, professor of law at Yale. This is his article on the topic.

No, Trump Cannot Declare an ‘Emergency’ to Build His Wall
If he did, and used soldiers to build it, they would all be committing a federal crime.

Not only would such an action be illegal, but if members of the armed forces obeyed his command, they would be committing a federal crime.
Begin with the basics. From the founding onward, the American constitutional tradition has profoundly opposed the president’s use of the military to enforce domestic law. A key provision, rooted in an 1878 statute and added to the law in 1956, declares that whoever “willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force” to execute a law domestically “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years” — except when “expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.”
Another provision, grounded in a statute from 1807 and added to the law in 1981, requires the secretary of defense to “ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel)” must “not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.”

It is also telling that a conservative would support such a move that if Obama did similar you'd be howling at the moon.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Each side will have to give a little to get a little.

With the Modern Morons compromise AKA working together is considered a weakness.

SAD

 

[Myview]

Taken directly from the twitter poll started by Steve Vladeck.
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1081007243980623872

1) Trump backs down; no wall
2) Democrats back down; agree to fund wall
3) Enough Republican Senators join Democrats and override a veto
4) Will be settled by whoever wins in 2020 (for all intents and purposes, shutdown continues in perpetuity and is handled by next legislative and executive makeup)

Over riding a veto assumes legislation gets to the Resolute Desk. McConnel has already said he wouldn't put anything up for a vote that he thinks the President won't sign. McConnell's stance protects the President from looking bad in front of America but makes the Senate look like crap. I voted the Dems back down but get something for it. I hope we don't have government by shutdown until 2020 or longer god forbid.

 

[vesper]

Trump backs down and ends the government shutdown and declares a national emergencyand builds the wall anyway.

I don't think Trump will back down but I do see him declaring a national emergency while he is battling the left in Congress for money. The numbers from border patrol and DHS certainly back his claim of a crisis. Of course it will be met by court fights from the left but when the president claims it in the interest of national security, the cases will quickly reach the Supreme court. Once again the test of the president's authority will be scrutinized by the nine in robes.

 

[Grand Mal]

Taken directly from the twitter poll started by Steve Vladeck.
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1081007243980623872

1) Trump backs down; no wall
2) Democrats back down; agree to fund wall
3) Enough Republican Senators join Democrats and override a veto
4) Will be settled by whoever wins in 2020 (for all intents and purposes, shutdown continues in perpetuity and is handled by next legislative and executive makeup)

Whatever happens, the Democrats will have to make it happen. The Republicans can't do anything themselves.

 

[SDET]

Trump can use his executive power to lessen the impact of the partial shutdown. People will start to wonder if the parts of the government can be jettisoned permanently.

 

[Perotista]

Taken directly from the twitter poll started by Steve Vladeck.
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1081007243980623872

1) Trump backs down; no wall
2) Democrats back down; agree to fund wall
3) Enough Republican Senators join Democrats and override a veto
4) Will be settled by whoever wins in 2020 (for all intents and purposes, shutdown continues in perpetuity and is handled by next legislative and executive makeup)

I was thinking about option three which won't happen. Any bill from the house that doesn't include the wall, McConnell could just table. Even if McConnell allowed a vote on such a bill, the pro-wall, pro-Trump senators could filibuster requiring 60 votes for cloture. 47 Democrats plus 13 Republican senators. McConnell is in a tough position, he is up for reelection in 2020 in a state, Kentucky where Trump has a positive 15 or a 55-40 approval rating. He can't afford to cross Trump and hope to be reelected. Crossing Trump means being primaried out.

I don't know how this will end. This is a battle between egos, Trump's Schumer's and Pelosi's. Their combined egos wouldn't fit into the empire state building. This battle has become more about saving face than reopening the government. The big problem is that to compromise, Democrats would think Schumer and Pelosi caved and Republicans think that Trump caved. I know that sounds backwards, but I think each side has backed themselves into a corner respecting their supporters and party. In other words, this has become personal to both sides, both parties and their members, supporters. Neither can as of now, afford to back down even if it is to compromise.

Until public pressure arises, which as of now most folks are just going about their business. Outside of sites like this one, not many have paid attention to the shutdown. Most will not until it effects them personally. How it will end is anyone's guess.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I really don’t know. But if it goes on too long a lot of those essential personnel are going to stop showing up for work. TSA is already facing that problem.

 

[JMR]

I don't think Trump will back down but I do see him declaring a national emergency while he is battling the left in Congress for money. The numbers from border patrol and DHS certainly back his claim of a crisis. Of course it will be met by court fights from the left but when the president claims it in the interest of national security, the cases will quickly reach the Supreme court. Once again the test of the president's authority will be scrutinized by the nine in robes.

Supposedly the numbers of illegal entries are higher than last year, which were very much lower than the year before, and which dropped by 30% the year before that. Certainly does not indicate a crisis of any sort. What is a crisis, and a wall will not change, is that the border entries are overwhelmed with people who have presented themselves for asylum. The government has yet to act to alleviate that crisis. There is not adequate room to house these people. More administrative help is needed in processing these cases. But that does not get done. Families stay there for very long times. Unfortunately, children have died.

Of course we have had administrations lie about "crisis" to the American public before, witness the war in Iraq.

Is there any point at which Trump supporters would demand the truth from him? Because he presents this idea of a border overrun with rapists and drug dealers, and that is not what is happening at all. It is a crisis of quite a different type, and his stupid wall will not help a bit.

 

[Deuce]

Trump backs down and ends the government shutdown and declares a national emergency and builds the wall anyway.

Do you think he should do that?

 

[vesper]

Supposedly the numbers of illegal entries are higher than last year, which were very much lower than the year before, and which dropped by 30% the year before that. Certainly does not indicate a crisis of any sort. What is a crisis, and a wall will not change, is that the border entries are overwhelmed with people who have presented themselves for asylum. The government has yet to act to alleviate that crisis. There is not adequate room to house these people. More administrative help is needed in processing these cases. But that does not get done. Families stay there for very long times. Unfortunately, children have died.

Of course we have had administrations lie about "crisis" to the American public before, witness the war in Iraq.

Is there any point at which Trump supporters would demand the truth from him? Because he presents this idea of a border overrun with rapists and drug dealers, and that is not what is happening at all. It is a crisis of quite a different type, and his stupid wall will not help a bit.

While you deem yourself an expert on what a wall will or will not do and in the same breath declare anyone in Trump's administration are liars, you show yourself someone who is not even worth responding to. If security walls don't work why do so many wealthy people like Pelosi, Obama, Clintons have security fences around their homes?


My father in law was a hero well decorated in WWII The man was wounded on several occasions while in the European theater. He had an impressive number of medals from Purple Hearts, Silver and Bronze stars. One time he refused a Silver star because those who laid their asses on the line with him were not awarded one and he told the Army to shove their Silver star if they were not willing to award one to All that were involved in the mission. When people would talk their jive with nothing to really back it up he would say "You talk like someone with a paper asshole." For years I didn't get his comment but now I do. Almost everyday on this forum I am reminded of his statement.

 

[Lovebug]

https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/08/what-trump-could-learn-from-the-reagan-immigration-amnesty/

As long we think sovereignty is a joke, who cares who blinks first? Most of our politicians don't have the spine to follow through anyway. Let foreigners run amok already, law and order be damned. It is just so insulting when anyone claims to do so for humanitarian reasons, to pat their own shoulder for appearances sake.

 

[Cardinal]

https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/10/08/what-trump-could-learn-from-the-reagan-immigration-amnesty/

As long we think sovereignty is a joke, who cares who blinks first? Most of our politicians don't have the spine to follow through anyway. Let foreigners run amok already, law and order be damned. It is just so insulting when anyone claims to do so for humanitarian reasons, to pat their own shoulder for appearances sake.

If the issue was serious then Trump shouldn't have lied about the funding for a solid year.

 

[Lovebug]

If the issue was serious then Trump shouldn't have lied about the funding for a solid year.

The issue is serious, and goes far beyond Trump. This administration will pass, our sovereignty may as well if we fail to properly address the issue.

 

[Cardinal]

The issue is serious, and goes far beyond Trump. This administration will pass, our sovereignty may as well if we fail to properly address the issue.

As I said, sounds serious. He should have been honest about who would pay for it, and his administration should have done an honest cost estimate of the wall. As it stands, no serious cost estimate has been conducted. Numbers fluctuate seemingly at random from week to week, and the vision of the wall seems to fluctuate even more frequently. Additionally, he was all set to sign the funding bill until he watched Fox News and changed his mind. And finally, in his zeal to protect border security, TSA agents and Coast Guard personnel go without pay.

For an issue that's so "serious," he certainly doesn't treat it very seriously.

 

[JMR]

While you deem yourself an expert on what a wall will or will not do and in the same breath declare anyone in Trump's administration are liars, you show yourself someone who is not even worth responding to. If security walls don't work why do so many wealthy people like Pelosi, Obama, Clintons have security fences around their homes?


My father in law was a hero well decorated in WWII The man was wounded on several occasions while in the European theater. He had an impressive number of medals from Purple Hearts, Silver and Bronze stars. One time he refused a Silver star because those who laid their asses on the line with him were not awarded one and he told the Army to shove their Silver star if they were not willing to award one to All that were involved in the mission. When people would talk their jive with nothing to really back it up he would say "You talk like someone with a paper asshole." For years I didn't get his comment but now I do. Almost everyday on this forum I am reminded of his statement.

Personal attacks aside for now, Trump is the person who should be providing evidence that the American taxpayers should invest in a very outdated form of technology (cement) to protect our border. It is the truth that Trump is claiming there is a CRISIS. It is also true, that no statistic supports this claim.

I see you could not keep from responding, even though I am not worthy of your opinions :roll: It is duly noted that you are completely under the sway of Trump and his lies. Being insulted by you is rather meaningless.

I would suggest if you wish to be deserving of your father-in-laws little slur, you do some research to back up your claims, and not throw out idiotic statements about Obama having a security fence. Really, comparing his experience to your own listening to Fox And Friends is pretty weak.

 

[Lovebug]

As I said, sounds serious. He should have been honest about who would pay for it, and his administration should have done an honest cost estimate of the wall. As it stands, no serious cost estimate has been conducted. Numbers fluctuate seemingly at random from week to week, and the vision of the wall seems to fluctuate even more frequently. Additionally, he was all set to sign the funding bill until he watched Fox News and changed his mind. And finally, in his zeal to protect border security, TSA agents and Coast Guard personnel go without pay.

For an issue that's so "serious," he certainly doesn't treat it very seriously.

All candidates put it on rather thick, but yes, he shouldn't have made promised the funding since he had little to no idea how much backlash he would encounter. May be that was naivety on his part, or perhaps he thinks in terms of business deals and underestimated the DC machine of power and corruption. Please note that I say that without mentioning party. Career politicians are not my cup of tea.