How can anyone support facism?

[LeftyHenry]

What facism essentially is...

Facism is more of a social status of a government. It's fanatical nationalim, but the way the economy is molded can be any way. There can be a communsit facism. It would be everyone owns the same amount of property but the only people there are is the natives of the land. There could also be a capitalist facism where the economy is the same as in America but only nativs of the land can live here. In short, facism is an extreme nationalism. The opposite of facism is really a populist who believes in the individual like ghandi

 

[Loxd4]

Nice list, this'll come in handy.

The dictators it showed were:

COLONEL HUGO BANZER, President of Bolivia
FULGENCIO BATISTA, President of Cuba
SIR HASSANAL BOLKIAH, the Sultan of Brunei
P. W. BOTHA, President of South Africa
GENERAL HUMBERTO BRANCO, President of Brazil
VINICIO CEREZO, President of Guatemala
CHIANG KAI-SHEK, President of Taiwan
ROBERTO SUAZO CORDOVA, President of Honduras
ALFREDO CRISTIANI, President of El Salvador
NGO DINH DIEM, President of South Viet Nam
GENERAL SAMUEL DOE, President of Liberia
FRANÇOIS & JEAN CLAUDE DUVALIER, Presidents-for-Life of Haiti
GENERAL FRANCISCO FRANCO, President of Spain
ADOLF HITLER, Chancellor of Germany
HUSSAN II, King of Morocco
FERDINAND MARCOS, President of the Philippines
MAXIMILIANO HERNANDEZ MARTINEZ, General of El Salvador
MOBUTU SESE SEKO, President of Zaire
GENERAL MANUEL NORIEGA, Chief of Defense forces, Panama
TURGUT OZAL, Prime Minister of Turkey
MOHAMMAD REZA PAHLEVI, Shah of Iran, King of Kings
GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, Prime Minister of Greece
PARK CHUNG HEE, President of South Korea
GENERAL AUGUSTO PINOCHET, President of Chile
GENERAL SITIVENI RABUKA, Commander, Armed Forces of Fiji
GENERAL EFRAIN RIOS MONT, President of Guatemala
ANTONIO DE OLIVEIRA SALAZAR, Prime Minister of Portugal
HALIE SELASSIE, Emperor of Ethiopia
IAN SMITH, Prime Minister of Rhodesia
ANASTASIO SOMOZA, SR. AND JR., Presidents of Nicaragua
ALFREDO STROESSNER, President-for-Life of Paraguay
GENERAL SUHARTO, President of Indonesia
RAFAEL LEONIDAS TRUJILLO, President of the Dominican Republic
GENERAL JORGE RAFAEL VIDELA, President of Argentina
MOHAMMED ZIA UL-HAQ, President of Pakistan

Where there any good one in the list?

And your quote:When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.–Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian archbishop

What dose it mean, to you?

 

[Comrade Brian]

And your quote:When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.–Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian archbishop

What dose it mean, to you?

It means that when people are giving to the poor, people like them and thank them. But when they ask why are they poor, the call him a communist, which is viewed as an insult, and want to undermine the current systems. Also-historically, many times when people asked what people's wages were, they were thought as commies, because commies would try to use that to persuade them that the current economic system isn't so great.

 

[Employee_of_the_Month]

Most fascists dont know their supporting fascism in particular these days, they dont know what their views add upp to.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Where there any good one in the list?

What are you talking talking about? Everyone on the list was supported by U.S., usually in order to stop Communist activity. E.G. Batista, supported in order stop
Castro and Che's revolution .

 

[Auftrag]

There are a couple of facists aka nazis on our forums but I was wondering how, if they themselves are not desperate for power, could they ever approve of a facist regime. It doesn't make sense to me. Even if their idea of a government that has complete control, doesn't that mean they have complete control over them also? How could anyone possibly want that? I just don't get it:doh

Fascism creates order, it greates strength, it creates unity of purpose and determination. Human beings are essentially animals, and like all animals we have a natural desire for survival, for betterment and in terms of that, the only way to survive and better ourselves is through the natural order of hierarchy.

The idea of control only exists over our enemies. Fascism advocates the strength of a nation and the struggle to overcome the weak. The concepts of democracy and liberalism are directly antithetical to that struggle and therefore it is vitally important to the survival of our nation state and the order which must be inherent within it in order to progress to smash those ideas. We don't need 10 political parties, 15 different political newspapers or a government which changes every 5 years. We need strength and unity of purpose.

Fascism is about struggle. It's about fighting for your nation, and in the context of National Socialist Fascism, for your race.

 

[Auftrag]

This is a piece by Benito Mussolini which sums up Fascism very well.

The Doctrine of Fascism

 

[Plain old me]

We don't need 10 political parties, 15 different political newspapers or a government which changes every 5 years. We need strength and unity of purpose.

But why can we not have strength and unity of purpose through democracy?

 

[Auftrag]

But why can we not have strength and unity of purpose through democracy?

I think the last 150 years is testament to how we can't. Look at what the world is after 150 years of democracy and liberalism. Germany 1933-1941 was a strong, unified country. It had achieved what liberal democracy has been trying to achieve over the last 100 years in less than 10.

 

[Plain old me]

I think the last 150 years is testament to how we can't. Look at what the world is after 150 years of democracy and liberalism. Germany 1933-1941 was a strong, unified country. It had achieved what liberal democracy has been trying to achieve over the last 100 years in less than 10.

You're correct, the last 150 years does stand as testament...the most powerful country in the world is also one of its most fundamentally democratic nations. As are the majority of the planets greatest nations. The UK and the USA are democratic nations, and they're unified. A nation does not require facism to be unified or strong.

 

[Comrade Brian]

Crap- it appears Auftrag is back.

 

[LeftyHenry]

I think the last 150 years is testament to how we can't. Look at what the world is after 150 years of democracy and liberalism. Germany 1933-1941 was a strong, unified country. It had achieved what liberal democracy has been trying to achieve over the last 100 years in less than 10.

7, and it acheived this only by slave labor and opprssing its people. The people didn't support Hitler and only did what he wanted for fear of death. If hitler hadn't been toppled by the Allies there was sure to be a revolution.

 

[Red_Dave]

Fascism creates order, it greates strength, it creates unity of purpose and determination. Human beings are essentially animals, and like all animals we have a natural desire for survival, for betterment and in terms of that, the only way to survive and better ourselves is through the natural order of hierarchy.

The idea of control only exists over our enemies. Fascism advocates the strength of a nation and the struggle to overcome the weak. The concepts of democracy and liberalism are directly antithetical to that struggle and therefore it is vitally important to the survival of our nation state and the order which must be inherent within it in order to progress to smash those ideas. We don't need 10 political parties, 15 different political newspapers or a government which changes every 5 years. We need strength and unity of purpose.

Fascism is about struggle. It's about fighting for your nation, and in the context of National Socialist Fascism, for your race.

But surely if there is no way to vote the government out you could be stuck with a government which is crap and/or currupt/

 

[cheese]

yes why can't we have strength and unity through democracy? any one in power can create order and strength through fear and opression.

 

[Auftrag]

You're correct, the last 150 years does stand as testament...the most powerful country in the world is also one of its most fundamentally democratic nations. As are the majority of the planets greatest nations. The UK and the USA are democratic nations, and they're unified. A nation does not require facism to be unified or strong.

What unity and strength?

The UK and USA are rotting from the core out. You can talk about some utopian idea of having democracy and being militarily strong, but the fact is these countries are imploding. Look at communities and cities around these nations, and its perfectly plain to see that we are on the verge of chaos.

There is no unity. I don't go into my community and see that everyone is unified with a common purpose, I don't even feel safe. All I have is an increase in immigrants, violent crime and drugs.

I went to visit some friends and had to walk through this vile area where no one was even speaking English, it was as if I'd suddenly fallen through a whole and ended in Calcutta or some other god awful third world muslim ragged city.

My country is being taken over and the native people of that country are fighting each other to the point of anarchy.

Hurray for democracy!

 

[Auftrag]

7,

Well, erm, yes. 7 being less than 10....?

it acheived this only by slave labor and opprssing its people.

Actually, I think you'll find that German people were perfectly happy. They had food, they had jobs, they had state sponsered holidays, they had cheap goods, they had housing, they had clean streets, they had a unity of purpose, they had community, they had determined leadership and they had one of the strongest nations on the planet.

The people didn't support Hitler and only did what he wanted for fear of death.

That's why they voted for him was it? Are you saying that the German people in 1933 were stupid? That they were incapable of understanding.

Hitler and the National Socialist Party were perfectly clear in their intentions of creating a dictatorship. People who vote, usually do so because they are informed about what that person or Party is attempting to achieve. The German people new full well what they were getting and when they got it they recieved everything that was promised to them.

If hitler hadn't been toppled by the Allies there was sure to be a revolution.

A very interesting assertion, and one that may well have been true [by 1945], but one that is obviously not backed up by any proof.

 

[Auftrag]

Crap- it appears Auftrag is back.

Yes, alas, I don't spend my entire life on the internet...I, surprisingly, do something about my politics.

 

[Plain old me]

What unity and strength?

The UK and USA are rotting from the core out. You can talk about some utopian idea of having democracy and being militarily strong, but the fact is these countries are imploding. Look at communities and cities around these nations, and its perfectly plain to see that we are on the verge of chaos.

There is no unity. I don't go into my community and see that everyone is unified with a common purpose, I don't even feel safe. All I have is an increase in immigrants, violent crime and drugs.

I went to visit some friends and had to walk through this vile area where no one was even speaking English, it was as if I'd suddenly fallen through a whole and ended in Calcutta or some other god awful third world muslim ragged city.

My country is being taken over and the native people of that country are fighting each other to the point of anarchy.

Hurray for democracy!

Indeed Hurray for democracy because it is that that allows for change. What if a dictator comes to power who you disagree with? Would you be willing to unite behind them, despite the disagreements? Facism does not bring unity, it only silences those that disagree through force. But in democracy you have the power to change it. If a facist dictator comes to power you disagree with you have no mechanism for his removal. Democracy guarentees that mechanism.

Democracy does not fracture people, it only allows for different schools of thought. We all have a common purpose, we just have different ways of going about it.

 

[stsburns]

Yes, alas, I don't spend my entire life on the internet...I, surprisingly, do something about my politics.

Do you really want me to go there? :mrgreen:

 

[Duke]

There are a couple of facists aka nazis on our forums but I was wondering how, if they themselves are not desperate for power, could they ever approve of a facist regime. It doesn't make sense to me. Even if their idea of a government that has complete control, doesn't that mean they have complete control over them also? How could anyone possibly want that? I just don't get it:doh

Oh, it isn't hard to support fascism if you happen to be a corporation owner or a complete moron.

Also, fascism is not only a form of government used by the Nazis, but it is very conformist.


Duke

 

[Auftrag]

Indeed Hurray for democracy because it is that that allows for change.

What is change?

What if a dictator comes to power who you disagree with?

Then they would be a traitor to National Socialism so the solution would be simple...

Would you be willing to unite behind them, despite the disagreements?

The only disagreements I would have with a leader would be if they betrayed our race and nation and moved away from National Socialism.

Any other disagreements are irrelevant. I would do what was necessary.

Facism does not bring unity

But that's patently untrue. It's a ridiculous assertion. All you have to do is study the history of fascism to realise how absurd that is.

it only silences those that disagree through force.

Which is necessary.

But in democracy you have the power to change it.

To change what?

If a facist dictator comes to power you disagree with you have no mechanism for his removal. Democracy guarentees that mechanism.

Fascist leaders have never betrayed their principles, ever. I don't see why someone would create a fascist regime for the purpose being a fascist regime, to unite a country behind a nation, only to not do that?

Democracy does not fracture people

Apparently you live in a bubble. I, however, live in the real world. People are beyond fractured.

it only allows for different schools of thought.

Which is unnecessary.

We all have a common purpose

No we don't, unless you can tell me what this common purpose is?

we just have different ways of going about it.

No, we have different ways of being different while our socities implode.

 

[Auftrag]

Oh, it isn't hard to support fascism if you happen to be a corporation owner or a complete moron.

Oh, such theoretical might....

Also, fascism is not only a form of government used by the Nazis, but it is very conformist.

God forbid that anyone would want to conform to something. By all means continue dying your long dirty hair blue and smashing windows, because I'm sure you're really cool.

 

[Auftrag]

Do you really want me to go there? :mrgreen:

Oh, I'd love you to.

 

[Plain old me]

What is change?
Then they would be a traitor to National Socialism so the solution would be simple...
The only disagreements I would have with a leader would be if they betrayed our race and nation and moved away from National Socialism.
Any other disagreements are irrelevant. I would do what was necessary.

But there's the crux of the matter...what if you had a leader who was not a national socialist? Who, in your eyes, and your eyes only, had betrayed your race and your nation? Then you would be small voice in a system which does not allow for small voices, at all...then where would your idea lie?

But that's patently untrue. It's a ridiculous assertion. All you have to do is study the history of fascism to realise how absurd that is.

It is not a ridiculous assertion. There is a difference between bringing unity, and merely silencing those that do not conform. Unity is when the people willingly want to go for a common goal because they all believe in it. What facism creates is a state where those that do not unite are merely too afraid to speak out.

To change what?

The government, those in power.

Fascist leaders have never betrayed their principles, ever. I don't see why someone would create a fascist regime for the purpose being a fascist regime, to unite a country behind a nation, only to not do that?

But what if those principles are not the same as yours? That's the point. If a fiacist comes to power then whole sectors of society have to be ignored, or even worse, why is it only you, and your principles should be the ones to be enacted...even if the majority disagree?

Apparently you live in a bubble. I, however, live in the real world. People are beyond fractured.

How is the UK fracured significantly enough to warrant power being vested in a single man?

No we don't, unless you can tell me what this common purpose is?
No, we have different ways of being different while our socities implode.

People are not beyong fractured...we do have a common purpose here in the UK and that common purpose is the ideals of a liberal democracy. We may differ on specifics, but overwhelmingly the people of my nation agree that democracy is the way we want to go. We don;t want to risk the chance of some tinpot madman running our nation with no way of removal, and we accept that we should have a say in how our lives are run.

 

[Duke]

Oh, such theoretical might....



God forbid that anyone would want to conform to something. By all means continue dying your long dirty hair blue and smashing windows, because I'm sure you're really cool.

You must think that the only part of non-conformist belief is hair color. What about creed? Or political belief? Or lifestyle?

What if I was the ruler of the country that you lived in, and I started a program to have the people in the country convert to Wicca, learn Farsi, and become a member of the Proletarian Party. What if those were the standards of conformism? I doubt that you would be too thrilled.


Duke