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GOP aims at Obamacare, hits innocent custormers

Fenton said:
Ive had Company provided insurance for me and my family for the last 20 years and I've never seen rate increases like this before.

Last year they dropped dependents from our plan, this year I had to pay in for the first time in 20 years
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You paid a premium exactly once in the last 20 years? Then yes, obviously you've never seen a rate increase before.

The paternalism of the employer-based system concealed 20 years worth of rate increases from you. But guess what, they were still there.
 
ludin said:
insurance companies have already submitted their increases for next year. again people are facing anywhere from a 15-20+% increase in their premiums.
people in Oregon are facing almost a 40% increase again.

yet again since obamacare has been enacted people have seen multiple 30-40% increases in their premiums.
every year. so how is this affordable again?

still waiting on my 2500 reduction haven't seen it yet.
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Put the government in charge of the Sahara desert, and within a short time there'll be sand shortages, and government subsidies for sand for the Sahara.

You were expecting something different with healthcare?
 
ludin said:
yet there is no proof or evidence of this.

before obamacare what I paid went up maybe 4 or 5%.

since obamacare came into effect what I have had to pay has gone up 20-40%.
last year we bought another company and they didn't raise it so maybe they got a better
rate with the addition of more people.

I am a little worried about what it is going to go up this year.
so far just increase after increase.

other people get tax credits I get nothing for working.
obamacare was never about expanding or making insurance cheaper.

just another huge burden on working people to have to pay for.
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Which was probably the intent behind ObamaCare all along, make the middle class pay for themselves as well as those who are below them in the socioeconomic spectrum. Little more than a forced wealth redistribution, and while it was promised that it was the rich that'll pay for it, the reality is quite different.

I laugh at all those who believed and continue to believe this lying president and his lying administration.
 
Let us get one thing straight, the GOP, with all its faults and ridiculous nonsense, aims at Obamacare because they realized from the beginning that ACA can't work. After all the fanfare, all the promised and the hope we had, one would think that life for the poorest and most vulnerable would have improved. But not only did it not improve, many more are one illness, one paycheck, away from chaos.
So please do us all a favor and see this ACA for the failure it is, stop making HC into a partisan issue, and start looking for solutions that actually work.
People who have nothing to offer than the same old party blame game should shut up for once, and let those who are interested in solving problems step up.
 
Greenbeard said:
You paid a premium exactly once in the last 20 years? Then yes, obviously you've never seen a rate increase before.

The paternalism of the employer-based system concealed 20 years worth of rate increases from you. But guess what, they were still there.
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Wow, the desperation and the level of dishonesty that the ACA supporters are having to resort to to defend this disastrous piece of legislation, its impressive. Not effective whatsoever, but still impressive

Its the " Baghdad Bob " strategy for defending Obamacare and its starts from the assumption that everyone other than Obama supporters are complete imbeciles

Because the average American would have to be imbecilic to believe for a second that Corporations and bussinesses have been managing in silence ACA comparable rate increases for the last 20 years or to believe that Obamacare has had no impact on premiums and out of pocket expenses outside the individual market place.
 
sangha said:
So this is the first year you've ever had to pay anything for your health insurance coverage. This year, your premium went up 40%

So exactly how much is the 40% of $0 costing you?
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I do find it fascinating how the ACA seems to have only targeted Conservatives for 40% premium increases year after year.

No one else in the country seems to be experiencing this.
 
Fenton said:
Because the average American would have to be imbecilic to believe for a second that Corporations and bussinesses have been managing in silence ACA comparable rate increases for the last 20 years or to believe that Obamacare has had no impact on premiums and out of pocket expenses outside the individual market place.
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Premium growth in the employer-based coverage market segment has been at 20-year lows for the past 5 years. I wouldn't expect you to realize that, seeing as someone else has been paying those premiums for you.
 
Greenbeard said:
Premium growth in the employer-based coverage market segment has been at 20-year lows for the past 5 years. I wouldn't expect you to realize that, seeing as someone else has been paying those premiums for you.
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Insurance Companies Warn Obamacare Losses Unsustainable
Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable | TheHill

Massive losses in the individual market which includes the exchanges are being shifted to Employer provided healthcare plans.

And the Insurance companies are still saying their losses are unsustainable

What a disaster of a law. Passed by partisan hacks who cared more about pushing their party agenda than the welfare of the American people

Even now as Obamacare enters into its predicted death spiral they're still trying to defend it

Party politics come first, am I right?
 
It's not Obamacare which is driving up costs. It's the cutting edge technology which we all demand. It's obscene profit margins allowed the drug manufacturers. Now that more people than ever have access to health care, some whether or not they can pay their share, the per capita cost has risen. For as long as as we have for profit insurance companies adding a layer of cost to the system, the cost will be higher than it has to be.

We need true universal healthcare like every other industrialized country in the world has at a per capita cost half of what we in the U.S. pay. We have some of the best technology in the world but poor access to it, and those with access are skinned alive monetarily for the privilege.
 
Russell797 said:
It's not Obamacare which is driving up costs. It's the cutting edge technology which we all demand. It's obscene profit margins allowed the drug manufacturers. Now that more people than ever have access to health care, some whether or not they can pay their share, the per capita cost has risen. For as long as as we have for profit insurance companies adding a layer of cost to the system, the cost will be higher than it has to be.

We need true universal healthcare like every other industrialized country in the world has at a per capita cost half of what we in the U.S. pay. We have some of the best technology in the world but poor access to it, and those with access are skinned alive monetarily for the privilege.
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Lies and more lies.

Keep it up, its a winning strategy for the low life Political party that's responsible for this disaster

Health Insurance Companies increase premiums to offset unsustainable losses
Health Insurers Hiking Premiums To Offset Obamacare Costs | The Daily Caller
 
Russell797 said:
Not lies. If we are to address rising costs, those factors will have to be dealt with, Obamacare or no Obamacare.
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Yes lies, I just posted a link that proved that they were lies

Obamacare was sold on a pack of lies by people that put party politics above the welfare of the American people and now its being defended by the same type of people

Its a disaster, not just for the Middle class and the economy but also for the Democrat party who has been paying a steep Political price for their malfeasance

You would think that they would be all for abandoning the ACA but no, they've chosen propaganda and misinformation instead
 
Lovebug said:
Let us get one thing straight, the GOP, with all its faults and ridiculous nonsense, aims at Obamacare because they realized from the beginning that ACA can't work. After all the fanfare, all the promised and the hope we had, one would think that life for the poorest and most vulnerable would have improved. But not only did it not improve, many more are one illness, one paycheck, away from chaos.
So please do us all a favor and see this ACA for the failure it is, stop making HC into a partisan issue, and start looking for solutions that actually work.
People who have nothing to offer than the same old party blame game should shut up for once, and let those who are interested in solving problems step up.
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dude, you just cant whine about HC being a partisan issue then regurgitate the conservative lies about Obamacare. 20 million people now have health coverage because of obamacare and it has increased the quality of care. so if you want to call Obamacare a failure, you need to explain how its a failure by taking into acount the actual facts, not the lies from the conservative media. so your response should start out "sure Obamacare has given 20 million people health care but........."
 
Threegoofs said:
I do find it fascinating how the ACA seems to have only targeted Conservatives for 40% premium increases year after year.

No one else in the country seems to be experiencing this.
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Serves them right for voting against it

But Fenton is obviously lying as the plans that had large increases are in the individual market and Fenton is obviously in the group market
 
Vern said:
dude, you just cant whine about HC being a partisan issue then regurgitate the conservative lies about Obamacare. 20 million people now have health coverage because of obamacare and it has increased the quality of care. so if you want to call Obamacare a failure, you need to explain how its a failure by taking into acount the actual facts, not the lies from the conservative media. so your response should start out "sure Obamacare has given 20 million people health care but........."
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Vern, when are you going to get off the ACA bandwagon and realize that maybe (technically) more people have a healthcare policy, but at the same time cannot afford to use it? When are you going to admit that people cannot keep their doctors? When are you going to admit that there has been a 7-10% increase in the cost of premiums, along with crazy high co-pays? When are you going to admit that some state co-ops are shut down for the lack of funds/providers?
 
ludin said:
again your opinion. the company doesn't see it that way and thinks that it is of greater benefit to the employee's. you are attempting to claim you opinion as fact doesn't work very well.
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Where costs of insurance are (relatively) low, it often is of greater benefit. Where costs are high, the existence of subsidies could be a game-changer, if they weren't implemented and administered with glitches and benefit cliffs built into them.

Yep each company should be allowed to define what benefits it offers. why shouldn't they?
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I'm not saying they shouldn't, but math isn't opinion. In some places, the the financial analysis supports dumping people onto the exchanges, and if it weren't for the glitches/cliffs in the subsidy benefits the law offers, it in fact could lead to single payer, albeit counterintuitively.

if they pay 100% of it then that is their choice. Not really as it only affects people working there. you are mistaking
healthcare premiums for pensions. don't get them confused they are not one in the same. all healthcare benefits are defined they have to be.
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I'm not confusing them, and no they don't have to be defined benefit and in many places they aren't. It is not uncommon that some organizations will contribute up to a specified amount toward health coverage. That is defined contribution. Having the employer pay it no matter the premium price is defined benefit in nature. The employer contributing a percentage or up to (x) amount is not. Not having skin in the game (premium-wise) tilts employee preferences toward unaffordable premiums, which has played a part in the rising costs over the last 20 years. The actual insured want unnecessarily vast benefits because they don't feel the premiums.

you still have not backed up your claim with anything substantial other than your opinion.
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It's not opinion, it's math and policy. I can clarify if there are aspects you don't understand, but the point is, even as counterintuitive as it may seem, PPACA could lead to single payer if but a few sloppy/glitchy/unfair small but highly consequential aspects of its subsidy rules were changed.

the employer group market is different than the single market. do you not understand this?
companies only get subsidies under certain criteria.
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I'm talking about individual subsidies that people would receive if employers dumped them into the marketplace after discontinuing the insurance benefit and raising wages.

my company is to large to qualify for obamcare subsidies for it's employee's so I am stuck with the cost increases.
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It doesn't really matter how large the company is. In high-cost areas the IRS SRP (penalty) for ALEs (applicable large employers) that don't offer insurance is actually fairly small ($2k), relative to the cost of the coverage. Family premiums under my employer group plan are going to cost over $2,900 per month next year. The "shared responsibility payment" is $2,000 per year. No one is "stuck" with it. Any employer can pay the penalty and raise wages if the cost is high.

There are classes of employees in my organization that don't pay $0.01 toward premiums, for themselves or family. The organization will pay $35,040 in premiums to cover these families starting July 1. If the organization decided to not offer insurance, it would pay $2,000 to the IRS, and could raise wages significantly, e.g. $15,000 to $20,000 a year, and the family could go get subsidized insurance and pay a lot less for their own insurance than the employer had been. The feds cover the difference. Any other scenario, the full $35,040 in premiums is shouldered by some combination of the employer and employee. Only by dumping could part of this cost (a significant part) be externalized to FedGov.

before obamacare some people had their insurance plan for years and years.
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Yes, and in many places (including where I live), its cost was skyrocketing, including before Obamacare.

millions of people would lose their healthcare insurance from your plan. I would. then I get stuck with a plan that
no one takes or the people that I use for my healthcare take.

why would I what to medically cripple my family like that?
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Under my plan, you would (1) take home more cash in your paycheck to offset the additional cost of buying it independently, and (2) push some of the cost of your insurance onto the Federal Government. This would be especially true in high-cost states. If you're in a low-cost state, my plan might not make sense, so you and your employer could keep buying insurance, but then you have somewhat less to complain about because your insurance is relatively cheap.
 
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RetiredUSN said:
Vern, when are you going to get off the ACA bandwagon and realize that maybe (technically) more people have a healthcare policy, but at the same time cannot afford to use it?
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RN, see how you search for any phrase or sentence fragment to not get on the ACA bandwagon. 20 million people now have health care insurance that didnt have it before. No "maybe technically" about it. your "cant afford to use it" is a bit perplexing. It looks like you're yet another con that believes you have to pay the deductible upfront or is trying to get other cons to believe it. Can you state that point clearly. thanks

And RN, 20 million people didnt have a doctor. Where is your concern for them? and the hilarious thing is, you could keep your doctor. You simply had to find a plan he accepts. And RN, everybody knows premiums go up every year. Where is your concern for the 10 million people who couldnt afford the premiums to start with? And yes RN, we know some coop shut down. Somehow you've missed all the posts pointing out that republicans sabotaged the reinsurance program that contributed to the coops shutting down. And you're in a thread that says the insurers are going to get their money Can you explain what you think your point is about the coops? thanks again.

So RN, I dont have to post silly hyperbole and false narratives to get on the ACA bandwagon. You however do to not get on it.
 
sangha said:
Serves them right for voting against it

But Fenton is obviously lying as the plans that had large increases are in the individual market and Fenton is obviously in the group market
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Lol.... Fenton's not lying at all. Sangha cant read
 
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