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GOP aims at Obamacare, hits innocent custormers

Vern

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So as cons obediently cheered anything they see as hurting Obamacare, as they obediently ignored the people their policies hurt, it looks like insurers will get their money anyway.

"Health plans that get stiffed can therefore sue the federal government for the cost-sharing reductions," Bagley writes. Once the lawsuits are filed in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, "winning those cases should be easy: the plans will just have to show that they’re owed money under the ACA. And here’s the kicker: Congress has permanently appropriated the money to pay court judgments, even if it hasn’t appropriated money for the cost-sharing reductions. The right question isn’t whether health plans will get paid. It’s when." (Emphasis in the original.)

Rubio's legacy: How the GOP aimed its guns at Obamacare and hit innocent consumers instead - LA Times

Seems like they'll get their money. We just need a couple of conservatives to post "no way will they get their money" to know for sure.
 

Fenton

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So as cons obediently cheered anything they see as hurting Obamacare, as they obediently ignored the people their policies hurt, it looks like insurers will get their money anyway.

"Health plans that get stiffed can therefore sue the federal government for the cost-sharing reductions," Bagley writes. Once the lawsuits are filed in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, "winning those cases should be easy: the plans will just have to show that they’re owed money under the ACA. And here’s the kicker: Congress has permanently appropriated the money to pay court judgments, even if it hasn’t appropriated money for the cost-sharing reductions. The right question isn’t whether health plans will get paid. It’s when." (Emphasis in the original.)

Rubio's legacy: How the GOP aimed its guns at Obamacare and hit innocent consumers instead - LA Times

Seems like they'll get their money. We just need a couple of conservatives to post "no way will they get their money" to know for sure.

Chuck Schumer: Passing Obamacare in 2010 Was a Mistake - The Atlantic
 

Fenton

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Hey VERN, if Healthcare was SO expensive back in 2008 that we neeeded a new law to make it " affordable " , how is it more affordable now that premiums, out of pocket expenses and deductibles have gone up ?
 

ludin

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Hey VERN, if Healthcare was SO expensive back in 2008 that we neeeded a new law to make it " affordable " , how is it more affordable now that premiums, out of pocket expenses and deductibles have gone up ?

insurance companies have already submitted their increases for next year. again people are facing anywhere from a 15-20+% increase in their premiums.
people in Oregon are facing almost a 40% increase again.

yet again since obamacare has been enacted people have seen multiple 30-40% increases in their premiums.
every year. so how is this affordable again?

still waiting on my 2500 reduction haven't seen it yet.
 

Fenton

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insurance companies have already submitted their increases for next year. again people are facing anywhere from a 15-20+% increase in their premiums.
people in Oregon are facing almost a 40% increase again.

yet again since obamacare has been enacted people have seen multiple 30-40% increases in their premiums.
every year. so how is this affordable again?

still waiting on my 2500 reduction haven't seen it yet.

Yea but if it wasn't for ObamaCare premiums would even be higher......

A poster in a diffedifferent thread posted that nonsense. I guess Obama's supporters think everyone is as naive and gullible as they are.
 

ludin

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Yea but if it wasn't for ObamaCare premiums would even be higher......

A poster in a diffedifferent thread posted that nonsense. I guess Obama's supporters think everyone is as naive and gullible as they are.

yet there is no proof or evidence of this.

before obamacare what I paid went up maybe 4 or 5%.

since obamacare came into effect what I have had to pay has gone up 20-40%.
last year we bought another company and they didn't raise it so maybe they got a better
rate with the addition of more people.

I am a little worried about what it is going to go up this year.
so far just increase after increase.

other people get tax credits I get nothing for working.
obamacare was never about expanding or making insurance cheaper.

just another huge burden on working people to have to pay for.
 

Fenton

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yet there is no proof or evidence of this.

before obamacare what I paid went up maybe 4 or 5%.

since obamacare came into effect what I have had to pay has gone up 20-40%.
last year we bought another company and they didn't raise it so maybe they got a better
rate with the addition of more people.

I am a little worried about what it is going to go up this year.
so far just increase after increase.

other people get tax credits I get nothing for working.
obamacare was never about expanding or making insurance cheaper.

just another huge burden on working people to have to pay for.

Yea my Company provided Insurance went up 40% this year and who knows what next year is going to bring.

Nothing good.

Ive had Company provided insurance for me and my family for the last 20 years and I've never seen rate increases like this before.

Last year they dropped dependents from our plan, this year I had to pay in for the first time in 20 years

ObamaCare was a destructive and disastrous piece of legislation passed on a pack of repeated lies by people who lacked the ability to comprehend anything outside of their ideological world view let alone its consequences on the economy and the American Middle Class

The only saving grace is that its had dire political consequences for the people and the party that are responsible for it and thats its simply unsustainable

Something is going to give, and no it wont lead to Single payer
 

Neomalthusian

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Yea my Company provided Insurance went up 40% this year and who knows what next year is going to bring.

Nothing good.

Ive had Company provided insurance for me and my family for the last 20 years and I've never seen rate increases like this before.

Last year they dropped dependents from our plan, this year I had to pay in for the first time in 20 years

ObamaCare was a destructive and disastrous piece of legislation passed on a pack of repeated lies by people who lacked the ability to comprehend anything outside of their ideological world view let alone its consequences on the economy and the American Middle Class

The only saving grace is that its had dire political consequences for the people and the party that are responsible for it and thats its simply unsustainable

Something is going to give, and no it wont lead to Single payer

The fact that in the last 20 years you never paid anything (for premiums, I assume you mean) is in my opinion absolute lunacy.

As to the bold, actually it might, in a counter-intuitive and roundabout way, but the law would need to be modified so as not to arbitrarily leave families and those who earn a penny too much completely out in the cold.

Hypothetically, if the following happened:
1) the 400% FPL subsidy cliff was smoothed
2) the "family glitch" was eliminated
3) every employer in the nation dumped insurance and paid $167/month per employee to the IRS
4) every person in the nation signed up for insurance on the federal exchange and got subsidies

We would have a sort of de facto single payer, for all intents and purposes. No one out there would be paying more than 2.5% to 10-12% of their modified AGI on health insurance premiums. From a beneficiary cost angle, that is tolerable.

The law needs to modified to try to decouple health insurance from employment, instead of what it currently does which is mislead people to think it HAS TO be provided as part of employment, as the latter impression creates full-time employment disincentives.
 

ludin

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The fact that in the last 20 years you never paid anything (for premiums, I assume you mean) is in my opinion absolute lunacy.
why? his company choose to provide healthcare while working there. however after obamacare and the penalties involved with providing good coverage to families and people
they probably can't afford the cost of the fines.

As to the bold, actually it might, in a counter-intuitive and roundabout way, but the law would need to be modified so as not to arbitrarily leave families and those who earn a penny too much completely out in the cold.

the law had nothing to do with lowering costs or helping people get coverage that was the lie behind it and everyone but liberals can see it.

We would have a sort of de facto single payer, for all intents and purposes. No one out there would be paying more than 2.5% to 10-12% of their modified AGI on health insurance premiums. From a beneficiary cost angle, that is tolerable.

There is no proof of this in anyway, and no I don't want the government controlling my healthcare anymore than what it already does.
it has already made a mess of things.

The law needs to modified to try to decouple health insurance from employment, instead of what it currently does which is mislead people to think it HAS TO be provided as part of employment, as the latter impression creates full-time employment disincentives.

before obamacare employeers didn't have to provide health insurance.
they provide health insurance as a benefit to attract workers.

it was a way to get around FDR's wage freezes during the great depression.
 

Neomalthusian

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why? his company choose to provide healthcare while working there. however after obamacare and the penalties involved with providing good coverage to families and people they probably can't afford the cost of the fines.

Mm, no, health care is health care. They offered health insurance as a benefit by paying the premium on behalf of the employee, and the reason having people pay $0.00 until just now is crazy is because people often have better deals available to them than the high cost of group coverage premiums, and having employees pay $0.00 for premiums encourages wasteful double-coverage. It also undermines people's awareness of what it is exactly that makes a particular insurance policy a good deal vs. a bad deal.

There is no proof of this in anyway, and no I don't want the government controlling my healthcare anymore than what it already does.
it has already made a mess of things.

Insuring a family in my state cost between $30,000 and $50,000 a year, just in premiums. The government already controls health care in that they mandate employers AND individuals to buy insurance and they mandate what insurance must provide. Their control is already as high as it can be. The only problem is the mechanism by which COST is controlled is not really there yet.

before obamacare employeers didn't have to provide health insurance.

They still don't. It's just convoluted and messy because the law made it half-way seem like it was mandated but didn't make it easy for employers to turn people to the individual marketplace.
 

ludin

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Mm, no, health care is health care. They offered health insurance as a benefit by paying the premium on behalf of the employee, and the reason having people pay $0.00 until just now is crazy is because people often have better deals available to them than the high cost of group coverage premiums, and having employees pay $0.00 for premiums encourages wasteful double-coverage. It also undermines people's awareness of what it is exactly that makes a particular insurance policy a good deal vs. a bad deal.

This is simply your opinion with no merit or basis. If a company chooses to pay 100% of the premium for an employee then that is their choice
and who cares if they do or not. Given the expense that obamacare has put on businesses then they are putting more of the cost of healthcare on
their employee's which in general is a bad thing. IE that means less disposable income to spend.

Insuring a family in my state cost between $30,000 and $50,000 a year, just in premiums. The government already controls health care in that they mandate employers AND individuals to buy insurance and they mandate what insurance must provide. Their control is already as high as it can be. The only problem is the mechanism by which COST is controlled is not really there yet.

which has 0 to do with what I quoted. You said that someone would spend no more than 2.5 to 10-12% of their modified AGI on insurance.
there is absolutely 0 merit to that claim. wait obamacare was supposed to reduce costs and it hasn't. 10-40% depending on the area some higher
than that has been seen every year since obamacare came into existence.

They still don't. It's just convoluted and messy because the law made it half-way seem like it was mandated but didn't make it easy for employers to turn people to the individual marketplace.

yea it did because companies couldn't afford the cost and if they had 55 employee's it is cheaper to pay the
2,500 a year penalty on each one and let them fend for themselves.

which is why you can keep your insurance if you like it was the biggest lie of the year.
same went for if you like your doctor you can keep them.

not so much as people found out.
 

Neomalthusian

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This is simply your opinion with no merit or basis. If a company chooses to pay 100% of the premium for an employee then that is their choice
and who cares if they do or not.

Choices can be bad ones.

Given the expense that obamacare has put on businesses then they are putting more of the cost of healthcare on their employee's which in general is a bad thing. IE that means less disposable income to spend.

An employer paying 0% while an employer pays 100% of it, regardless of what it costs, is a defined benefit. Defined benefits are problematic, particularly when the underlying cost or value changes significantly.

which has 0 to do with what I quoted. You said that someone would spend no more than 2.5 to 10-12% of their modified AGI on insurance.
there is absolutely 0 merit to that claim.

Yes there is, those are the subsidies. The subsidies contribute the difference between those % income thresholds and the actual cost of the plan, regardless of what that real cost of the plan is. Right now the subsidies cap the buyer's premium expense at between 2.5% and 9.5% of modified AGI. The problem with them is they're administered unfairly. Earn a penny over 400% FPL, you suddenly get nothing. Have one single family member that's offered affordable insurance? Well then no one else in the family is subsidy eligible. Those are problems. Barriers to employers dumping insurance. Remove the barriers by adding a 12% (for example) bracket for those who earn more than 400% of the FPL, and eliminate the family glitch problem.

yea it did because companies couldn't afford the cost and if they had 55 employee's it is cheaper to pay the
2,500 a year penalty on each one and let them fend for themselves.

Which is what they could do if it weren't for the subsidy cliff and family glitch, and then we'd have everyone paying for insurance according to their income, instead of this mixed bag mess of a system.

which is why you can keep your insurance if you like it was the biggest lie of the year.
same went for if you like your doctor you can keep them.

It wasn't true that anyone could truly "keep their insurance" if they liked it before, either. It changed every single year, especially in price, but in other ways too. Networking contracts between insurers, facilities, organizations and providers, changes to how benefits are administered, and so on. The industry has been volatile for years, there was no stability to "keep."

Don't mistake me as a big PPACA fan. I'm not. I'm only pointing out that just changing a few minor glitchy applications of the law, and actually intending to decouple insurance from employment, would seismically change the health insurance landscape across the nation, because then employers could stop providing this, hike wages, externalize costs to the feds, and make themselves and their employees both better off in the end.
 

ludin

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Choices can be bad ones.
again your opinion. the company doesn't see it that way and thinks that it is of greater benefit
to the employee's. you are attempting to claim you opinion as fact doesn't work very well.


An employer paying 0% while an employer pays 100% of it, regardless of what it costs, is a defined benefit. Defined benefits are problematic, particularly when the underlying cost or value changes significantly.

Yep each company should be allowed to define what benefits it offers. why shouldn't they? it is there company after all they have the right to
run it as they see fit. if they pay 100% of it then that is their choice. Not really as it only affects people working there. you are mistaking
healthcare premiums for pensions. don't get them confused they are not one in the same. all healthcare benefits are defined they have to be.

Yes there is, those are the subsidies. The subsidies contribute the difference between those % income thresholds and the actual cost of the plan, regardless of what that real cost of the plan is. Right now the subsidies cap the buyer's premium expense at between 2.5% and 9.5% of modified AGI. The problem with them is they're administered unfairly. Earn a penny over 400% FPL, you suddenly get nothing. Have one single family member that's offered affordable insurance? Well then no one else in the family is subsidy eligible. Those are problems. Barriers to employers dumping insurance. Remove the barriers by adding a 12% (for example) bracket for those who earn more than 400% of the FPL, and eliminate the family glitch problem.

still does not stop the problem. the fact is that obamacare has increased insurance premiums on everyone regardless if they are in the single market or not.
you still have not backed up your claim with anything substantial other than your opinion.


Which is what they could do if it weren't for the subsidy cliff and family glitch, and then we'd have everyone paying for insurance according to their income, instead of this mixed bag mess of a system.

I guess you don't get it. the employer group market is different than the single market. do you not understand this?
companies only get subsidies under certain criteria. the criteria was so complicated and confusing that pretty much
no one tried to wade through the red tape to get it for the company.

my company is to large to qualify for obamcare subsidies for it's employee's so I am stuck with the cost increases.

It wasn't true that anyone could truly "keep their insurance" if they liked it before, either. It changed every single year, especially in price, but in other ways too. Networking contracts between insurers, facilities, organizations and providers, changes to how benefits are administered, and so on. The industry has been volatile for years, there was no stability to "keep."

before obamacare some people had their insurance plan for years and years.

Don't mistake me as a big PPACA fan. I'm not. I'm only pointing out that just changing a few minor glitchy applications of the law, and actually intending to decouple insurance from employment, would seismically change the health insurance landscape across the nation, because then employers could stop providing this, hike wages, externalize costs to the feds, and make themselves and their employees both better off in the end.

millions of people would lose their healthcare insurance from your plan. I would. then I get stuck with a plan that
no one takes or the people that I use for my healthcare take.

why would I what to medically cripple my family like that?
 

Deuce

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Yea but if it wasn't for ObamaCare premiums would even be higher......

A poster in a diffedifferent thread posted that nonsense. I guess Obama's supporters think everyone is as naive and gullible as they are.

The rate of increase did slow down.
 

Fenton

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The rate of increase did slow down.

Lies but hey, I like the lefts strategy when it comes to ObamaCare. Keep pissing off the electorate. Keep treating them like their a bunch of idiots.

Last year the premiums on my employer provided plan shot up 40%, next year they're expected to jump another 20-30% if not more.

2 years ago my employer stopped paying for dependent coverage and told us if we wanted to keep our dependents on the plan it would cost 160.00 dollars a week.

Most of us kept our families on our plan anyway, but some of us couldn't spare the 600 bucks a month hit.
Those that did lost 600 dollars of discretionary income a month that could have been pushed back into the economy or saved for things like a kids Colleg fund or for retirement

For the last 20 years Ive had employer provided Health insurance for me and my dependents. My employer told me he used to pay 200 a month for a PPC Healthcare plan that covered a employee and his dependents and this is the first time he's ever had to cut back coverage due to rising cost

The truth is 85 % of Americans prior to ObamaCare had Health insurance through their employers or had private plans and they LIKED THEIR DR AND THEIR PLANS

They remember just like I do how well those plans worked and they realize what a disaster ObamaCare is and what a bunch of disgusting liars the Democrats and the President are
 

Deuce

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Lies but hey, I like the lefts strategy when it comes to ObamaCare. Keep pissing off the electorate. Keep treating them like their a bunch of idiots.

Last year the premiums on my employer provided plan shot up 40%, next year they're expected to jump another 20-30% if not more.

2 years ago my employer stopped paying for dependent coverage and told us if we wanted to keep our dependents on the plan it would cost 160.00 dollars a week.

Most of us kept our families on our plan anyway, but some of us couldn't spare the 600 bucks a month hit.
Those that did lost 600 dollars of discretionary income a month that could have been pushed back into the economy or saved for things like a kids Colleg fund or for retirement

For the last 20 years Ive had employer provided Health insurance for me and my dependents. My employer told me he used to pay 200 a month for a PPC Healthcare plan that covered a employee and his dependents and this is the first time he's ever had to cut back coverage due to rising cost

The truth is 85 % of Americans prior to ObamaCare had Health insurance through their employers or had private plans and they LIKED THEIR DR AND THEIR PLANS

They remember just like I do how well those plans worked and they realize what a disaster ObamaCare is and what a bunch of disgusting liars the Democrats and the President are

My employer did the same thing.

Before the ACA passed.
 

sangha

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Yea my Company provided Insurance went up 40% this year and who knows what next year is going to bring.

Nothing good.

Ive had Company provided insurance for me and my family for the last 20 years and I've never seen rate increases like this before.

Last year they dropped dependents from our plan, this year I had to pay in for the first time in 20 years

ObamaCare was a destructive and disastrous piece of legislation passed on a pack of repeated lies by people who lacked the ability to comprehend anything outside of their ideological world view let alone its consequences on the economy and the American Middle Class

The only saving grace is that its had dire political consequences for the people and the party that are responsible for it and thats its simply unsustainable

Something is going to give, and no it wont lead to Single payer

Lies but hey, I like the lefts strategy when it comes to ObamaCare. Keep pissing off the electorate. Keep treating them like their a bunch of idiots.

Last year the premiums on my employer provided plan shot up 40%, next year they're expected to jump another 20-30% if not more.

2 years ago my employer stopped paying for dependent coverage and told us if we wanted to keep our dependents on the plan it would cost 160.00 dollars a week.

Most of us kept our families on our plan anyway, but some of us couldn't spare the 600 bucks a month hit.
Those that did lost 600 dollars of discretionary income a month that could have been pushed back into the economy or saved for things like a kids Colleg fund or for retirement

For the last 20 years Ive had employer provided Health insurance for me and my dependents. My employer told me he used to pay 200 a month for a PPC Healthcare plan that covered a employee and his dependents and this is the first time he's ever had to cut back coverage due to rising cost

The truth is 85 % of Americans prior to ObamaCare had Health insurance through their employers or had private plans and they LIKED THEIR DR AND THEIR PLANS

They remember just like I do how well those plans worked and they realize what a disaster ObamaCare is and what a bunch of disgusting liars the Democrats and the President are

So this is the first year you've ever had to pay anything for your health insurance coverage. This year, your premium went up 40%

So exactly how much is the 40% of $0 costing you?
 

katzgar

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Yea my Company provided Insurance went up 40% this year and who knows what next year is going to bring.

Nothing good.

Ive had Company provided insurance for me and my family for the last 20 years and I've never seen rate increases like this before.

Last year they dropped dependents from our plan, this year I had to pay in for the first time in 20 years

ObamaCare was a destructive and disastrous piece of legislation passed on a pack of repeated lies by people who lacked the ability to comprehend anything outside of their ideological world view let alone its consequences on the economy and the American Middle Class

The only saving grace is that its had dire political consequences for the people and the party that are responsible for it and thats its simply unsustainable

Something is going to give, and no it wont lead to Single payer



obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with your private insurance. you are making things up just to be hysterical.
 

Fenton

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My employer did the same thing.

Before the ACA passed.

And soon after Obama told us all that we could " keep our Dr and Insurance plans " if we liked them and told us the ACA would make Healthcare more affordable

Remember this exchange between Chris Wallace and Eziekel Emanual ?

First, Eziekel Emanual is a morally reprehensible disgusting low life. Obama picked the perfect guy to go out and lie to the faces of millions of Americans.

Second, that strategy of treating the American people like a bunch of imbeciles that are stupid enough to believe any lie thats thrown their way really hasn't payed off for the Democrats

Apparently Americans aren't morons, and dont like being treated as such.......go figure.

Third, lies come with consequences.

Like in 2014 when Obama and his signature legislation were such a liability to the Democrats chances of keeping the Senate that thdidn't running for re-election had to pretend their Presdidn'tamd the ACA didn't exist

Didn't help them much, they still got their clocks cleaned

So Im curious, why keep lying ? Out of desperation? Or is it part of the same strategy that led to the GOP taking back the Senate and winding up with 31 Governorships?
 

Fenton

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obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with your private insurance. you are making things up just to be hysterical.

Lol ! You're a Obama supporter aren't you ? To be that uniformed, that gullible, yea you have to be a Obama supporter.

Apparently Insurance Companies are losing money hand over fist.
In the individual market place that includes ObamaCare exchanges, insurers lost money in 41 States in 2014 alone. They're making up for those losses by increasing premiums and or jusr dropping out of the exchanges

Insurers: Our Obamacare Losses Will Force Us to Jack Up Rates and Flee Markets in 2017 - Guy Benson

So, you have no idea what you're talking about
 

katzgar

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Lol ! You're a Obama supporter aren't you ? To be that uniformed, that gullible, yea you have to be a Obama supporter.

Apparently Insurance Companies are losing money hand over fist.
In the individual market place that includes ObamaCare exchanges, insurers lost money in 41 States in 2014 alone. They're making up for those losses by increasing premiums and or jusr dropping out of the exchanges

Insurers: Our Obamacare Losses Will Force Us to Jack Up Rates and Flee Markets in 2017 - Guy Benson

So, you have no idea what you're talking about


I am not an Obama supporter, it is just that you are wrong.
 

Fenton

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I am not an Obama supporter, it is just that you are wrong.

No, Im not.

I just posted a link proving my point.

That due to huge losses in the market place Insurance companies have been forced to raise premiums exponentially

I dont get it. Do people give a **** about this Country and its people anymore or is supporting some lying Politician and his disastrous legislation more important ?
 

katzgar

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No, Im not.

I just posted a link proving my point.

That due to huge losses in the market place Insurance companies have been forced to raise premiums exponentially

I dont get it. Do people give a **** about this Country and its people anymore or is supporting some lying Politician and his disastrous legislation more important ?


you can post links all day long but I prefer facts. some insurance companies are lowering premiums. when you get out of the right wing fake reality the ACA is a resounding success. Many insurance companies are expanding their ACA roles.
 

Fenton

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you can post links all day long but I prefer facts. some insurance companies are lowering premiums. when you get out of the right wing fake reality the ACA is a resounding success. Many insurance companies are expanding their ACA roles.

:lamo

Right wing fake reality ? Oh the irony !

People like you live in a fantasy world of your own making. Absolutely delusional.

Insurers Warn Losses from Obamacare Unsustainable
Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable | TheHill

Tell me, if ObamaCare was such a " resounding success " why did the Democrats in the last Midterms pretend it didn't exist ?

Wasn't because it was such a " resounding success ", no they ignored Obama's signature legislation AND Obama because they were both massive liabilities to their chances of keeping the Senate

Dont believe me ?

Chuck Schumer Blames GOP Route of Democrats on ObamaCare
Chuck Schumer: Passing Obamacare in 2010 Was a Mistake - The Atlantic

Unbelievable that there are people this brainwashed out there, and they vote. Scary thought
 

katzgar

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:lamo

Right wing fake reality ? Oh the irony !

People like you live in a fantasy world of your own making. Absolutely delusional.

Insurers Warn Losses from Obamacare Unsustainable
Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable | TheHill

Tell me, if ObamaCare was such a " resounding success " why did the Democrats in the last Midterms pretend it didn't exist ?

Wasn't because it was such a " resounding success ", no they ignored Obama's signature legislation AND Obama because they were both massive liabilities to their chances of keeping the Senate

Dont believe me ?

Chuck Schumer Blames GOP Route of Democrats on ObamaCare
Chuck Schumer: Passing Obamacare in 2010 Was a Mistake - The Atlantic

Unbelievable that there are people this brainwashed out there, and they vote. Scary thought


time for the right wing to accept the reality that we have a black president, get over it.
 
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