global minimum wage

[Ed_from_NYC]

Should there be a global minimum wage? By this I mean should the trilateral countries only allow importation of products that were made by labor that was paid a global minimum wage of say $2 per hour?

 

[Deuce]

I think some problems with establishing that is that cost of living varies dramatically across the world, currency exchange is never constant, the lifestyle that $X/hour buys you varies from country to country, inflation isn't constant, etc. Yeah, it would be nice to make sure we're not buying things made by people who are essentially slaves, but an arbitrary dollar amount probably wouldn't accomplish that.

 

[tessaesque]

Lest we forget, of course, that most developing countries are going through "typical" growing pains. It isn't unheard of for countries to start with incredibly low wages, low working ages, and crap working conditions as they progress towards full industrialization. Forcing a country to skip steps in order to fall in line with some sort of arbitrary ideal would likely do more harm than good.

 

[RadicalModerate]

Lest we forget, of course, that most developing countries are going through "typical" growing pains. It isn't unheard of for countries to start with incredibly low wages, low working ages, and crap working conditions as they progress towards full industrialization. Forcing a country to skip steps in order to fall in line with some sort of arbitrary ideal would likely do more harm than good.

Dead on, tessa. Just what I was gonna say.

 

[tessaesque]

Dead on, tessa. Just what I was gonna say.

We don't often agree, RM. But I'm glad you're with me on this one.

 

[poweRob]

Should there be a global minimum wage? By this I mean should the trilateral countries only allow importation of products that were made by labor that was paid a global minimum wage of say $2 per hour?

No need to establish a global law. Just abolish free trade and go with fair trade standards. Then as a country, you can say, "well you use slave labor so therefore we are going to put a 1000% tariff on the goods we import from you until you stop using slave labor and pay the workers a living wage."

Trade should be used to raise standards. Free trade lowers the bar to the lowest possible standard and tells everyone that they must compete with the lowest standards in the world.

 

[MaggieD]

Should there be a global minimum wage? By this I mean should the trilateral countries only allow importation of products that were made by labor that was paid a global minimum wage of say $2 per hour?

Horrible idea. In many parts of the world, paying someone $2 per hour would make them part of their country's elite.

 

[Ed_from_NYC]

$4000 per year is too much? The cost of gasoline is the same everywhere in the world. Yes some governments subsidize but the underlying ocst is the same. The cost of a year at Harvard is the same for the children of Americans and of Indians. A worker who makes IPads that sell for $800 each is not entitled to $4000 for a year of work?! Just because you can screw someone does not mean you should.

 

[RadicalModerate]

The cost of gasoline is the same everywhere in the world.

The market price for oil is the same, but gasoline (refined and processed oil byproduct) is very different all over the world.

A worker who makes IPads that sell for $800 each is not entitled to $4000 for a year of work?!

Because the labor market is different there.

Why aren't American skilled workers "entitled" to $1 million for a year of work?

The price of labor (wages) are based on supply and demand, like everywhere else. There is a glut of labor in China, thus the price of labor is very low.

 

[Ed_from_NYC]

RadicalModerate, shouldn't we let labor into the US to lower wage rates here down to global rates?

 

[samsmart]

Should there be a global minimum wage? By this I mean should the trilateral countries only allow importation of products that were made by labor that was paid a global minimum wage of say $2 per hour?

No.

It would be too difficult to implement, for one.

For another, prices of commodities and consumer goods may vary wildly.

I wouldn't mind some kind of mandate to ensure that every country has some kind of minimum wage to ensure a basic living standard, but I don't think such a minimum wage should be standardized globally.

 

[notquiteright]

When wonks speak of a global minimum wage they usually mean half the mean wage average for that country so the amount varies from country to country but the effect is very close around the world.

 

[Helix]

i think it's more important to link working conditions and pollution controls to level of preferential trade status.

at the very least, we should use unfettered access to our market as a tool to encourage manufacturing in the developing world to treat workers and people living in the area in a humane fashion.

 

[Ontologuy]

I'm uncertain on how to weigh the pros and cons of a global minimum wage .. though I will say that I'm ethically opposed to wage-slave labor in any country, even if the goods made there will also be sold and used there.

There are two things I would like to see, though.

One is a simple rule for U.S.-based companies: if you make it abroad, you sell it abroad, or you're subject to an import tariff.

And second .. import tariffs with real teeth.

Of course, these two things by themselves will not be particularly effective. They must be part of a greater major comprehensive plan to restore prosperity to America to function optimally.

 

[samsmart]

i think it's more important to link working conditions and pollution controls to level of preferential trade status.

at the very least, we should use unfettered access to our market as a tool to encourage manufacturing in the developing world to treat workers and people living in the area in a humane fashion.

I'm all for a human rights tariff on those countries that abuse human rights. If we want to get rid of human rights abuses all over the world, we should make it tougher for them to profit by it.

 

[nathanjames1791]

Should there be a global minimum wage? By this I mean should the trilateral countries only allow importation of products that were made by labor that was paid a global minimum wage of say $2 per hour?

That would be pratically impossible. A nice idea yes but most likely impracticle.

 

[TNAR]

Trade should be used to raise standards. Free trade lowers the bar to the lowest possible standard and tells everyone that they must compete with the lowest standards in the world.

At whose arbitrary standards should the "bar" be set? Free trade forces restrictive and regressive nations such as the United States to compete on a more level playing field in a global economy. So-called "fair trade" only results in lowered standards of living, unemployment, higher prices, and fewer options.

The market price for oil is the same, but gasoline (refined and processed oil byproduct) is very different all over the world.

Oil sells for thousands of different prices throughout the world every single day.

RadicalModerate, shouldn't we let labor into the US to lower wage rates here down to global rates?

Free trade will tend to equalize prices. In the case of labor, much of U.S. labor prices are held artificially high by minimum wage laws and a restricted supply. Opening the borders would have the short-term affect of lowering U.S. labor wage-rates while slowly increasing foreign wage-rates. But what is good for everyone is not necessarily good for everyone; if you know what I mean.

And second .. import tariffs with real teeth.

Translation: I am for higher prices.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I read threads like this and wonder what third world country made the clothes the minimum wage advocate is wearing... We can't possibly be responsible enough to boycott the products to whose production method we morally object, no, we need a One World Government to start subjecting all the world's people to its laws. :lol:


Anyone interested in this idea should read up about what Harkin's (D-IA) bill banning child-made textiles from the third world did to Bangladeshi girls.

Caution: Spoiler alert!

The law didn't even pass, but the word got out and the factory slavemasters laid off countless little girls and they returned to prostitution to help feed their families.

 

[poweRob]

At whose arbitrary standards should the "bar" be set? Free trade forces restrictive and regressive nations such as the United States to compete on a more level playing field in a global economy. So-called "fair trade" only results in lowered standards of living, unemployment, higher prices, and fewer options.

Fair trade means you can set tariffs on counrtries who have no standards for their workers or environment. So if one country want's to produce goods and dump all the mercury waste in the local river, we'd tariff them for not having our clean up standards. That is fair and that raises their standards to meet our standards. Free trade states that oh well, if they are dumping let our companies fire their American workers and go produce product over there because they don't have clean up costs.

Free trade = drastically lowered standards of living, unemployment, pollution and unethical treatment of those working in other countries.

 

[poweRob]

I read threads like this and wonder what third world country made the clothes the minimum wage advocate is wearing... We can't possibly be responsible enough to boycott the products to whose production method we morally object, no, we need a One World Government to start subjecting all the world's people to its laws. :lol:


Anyone interested in this idea should read up about what Harkin's (D-IA) bill banning child-made textiles from the third world did to Bangladeshi girls.

Caution: Spoiler alert!

The law didn't even pass, but the word got out and the factory slavemasters laid off countless little girls and they returned to prostitution to help feed their families.

It's quite interesting that you hold the view that promotes being a slave as a better way of life for people.

 

[Slartibartfast]

terrible idea. early industrialization, while abusive in first world eyes is a necessary stage for a country to go through as its economy matures.

 

[imagep]

Horrible idea. In many parts of the world, paying someone $2 per hour would make them part of their country's elite.

So there is something wrong with people being raised to the status of the elite? I would have thought that to be a good thing.

 

[imagep]

$4000 per year is too much? The cost of gasoline is the same everywhere in the world. Yes some governments subsidize but the underlying ocst is the same. The cost of a year at Harvard is the same for the children of Americans and of Indians. A worker who makes IPads that sell for $800 each is not entitled to $4000 for a year of work?! Just because you can screw someone does not mean you should.

The reason that China loans so much money to the US is because China has more money than it has a need for because it underpays it's workers.

And the US supports Chineese workers being underpaid by allowing free trade with China while relatively penalizing companies that work in the US by requiring compliance with worker and enviromental protection laws.

 

[Ontologuy]

And second .. tariffs with real teeth.

Translation: I am for higher prices.

Well that was an ideologically compelled kneejerk response.

I clearly stated here -- http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/123396-global-minimum-wage-2.html#post1060382044 --

Of course, these two things by themselves will not be particularly effective. They must be part of a greater major comprehensive plan to restore prosperity to America to function optimally.

So your comment is meaningless as it was purposefully taken out of context.

When a comprehensive plan to restore prosperity to America is implemented and fully effected, nearly everyone will be working again, and bringing home a living wage.

So though prices will be up, wages will be way up and unemployment will be miniscule.

Today, with the great number of the masses either unemployed, inadequately part-time employed, or full-time employed having forced to take a major cut in pay, though a pair of jeans may sell for $7.00 at Wal-mart, not many can budget even that.

But in a fully recovered America, way beyond where we were shortly prior to the recession, though those same jeans may sell for $25.00, a much greater percentage of the population can budget them than formerly.

It's all about recognizing the value of a plan for renewed national purpose that targets the recovery of the overwhelming vast majority of American citizens.

When that is accomplished, tariffs will have been just a part of the success of it.

 

[RadicalModerate]

RadicalModerate, shouldn't we let labor into the US to lower wage rates here down to global rates?

"Shouldn't we let labor into the US to lower wage rates..."

Ummm...I guess your talking about immigration?