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For Those Who Call Yourselves by His Name

BDBoop

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Just wondering. And no, I'm not talking to anybody but the people who self-identify as Christians in the mold of Michele Bachmann.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

How does this mesh with how you treat people who don't see the world exactly as you do? How can you judge people you don't even know on a daily basis.

How can you insult and disrespect the President. And don't go jumping down my throat. I didn't say question. I didn't say ignore his (in your estimation) many mistakes. The Bible clearly says we should be praying for him. So when you're in here calling him names and tearing him down - that's really okay, in your mind? I'd like to know what verses countenance such behaviors.

Some of the worst trolls on this board claim the name of Christ. I just don't know how or why.

As always, if this shoe doesn't fit? I'm not talking about you.
 
You can love someone for their humanity while disagreeing with their views from an ego level.

The President directly affects my life so naturally I will want to be aware of his actions and the actions of congress.

Incidentally, I do practice compassion as consciously as I possibly can and I agree that it is the cornerstone to living a fruitful and healthy life.
 
You can love someone for their humanity while disagreeing with their views from an ego level.

The President directly affects my life so naturally I will want to be aware of his actions and the actions of congress.

Incidentally, I do practice compassion as consciously as I possibly can and I agree that it is the cornerstone to living a fruitful and healthy life.

Exactly and exactly. But there is a HUGE difference between awareness, discussing it, vs calling him "that bastard from Kenya, thug" - and claiming to be a believer.
 
Just wondering. And no, I'm not talking to anybody but the people who self-identify as Christians in the mold of Michele Bachmann.



How does this mesh with how you treat people who don't see the world exactly as you do? How can you judge people you don't even know on a daily basis.

How can you insult and disrespect the President. And don't go jumping down my throat. I didn't say question. I didn't say ignore his (in your estimation) many mistakes. The Bible clearly says we should be praying for him. So when you're in here calling him names and tearing him down - that's really okay, in your mind? I'd like to know what verses countenance such behaviors.

Some of the worst trolls on this board claim the name of Christ. I just don't know how or why.

As always, if this shoe doesn't fit? I'm not talking about you.

Lets face it, christians today don't really care about becoming "more righteous".
They are only concerned with not going to hell for eternity.
Indeed, just go to a church mention how many times you hear "You are imperfect/Christ died for your sins/will you go to heaven? etc. etc." Thats all sermons ever encompass!

With theology like that, who needs theodicy?
 
Lets face it, christians today don't really care about becoming "more righteous".
They are only concerned with not going to hell for eternity.
Indeed, just go to a church mention how many times you hear "You are imperfect/Christ died for your sins/will you go to heaven? etc. etc." Thats all sermons ever encompass!

With theology like that, who needs theodicy?

Hi. I haz a stupid. What is theodicy?
 
Hi. I haz a stupid. What is theodicy?

philosophical study of an all-loving God. Or as my great-grandfather used to say: "bring [experience of] god to others by being godly yourself" :)
 
philosophical study of an all-loving God. Or as my great-grandfather used to say: "bring [experience of] god to others by being godly yourself" :)

I think there were a few decades when I couldn't grasp the concept of "abba, father" because my earthly example was SUCH a bastard.

It feels like people think they're setting a standard - and they are. It's just not a good one. We're not supposed to put ourselves on the judgement seat of Moses, and point and shame and blame and find fault. We're not supposed to vilify and belittle. We're not supposed to believe we're good Christians, simply because we don't (in our own confused eyes) sin. I don't want to head this thread in too many directions, but if God created you straight, what. Congratulations? But you get to judge those who ... I don't expect anybody to follow me into this sentence, but yes. He created gays.

I was really saddened by that document Michele Bachmann signed today. It was very ugly. And she's not even operating in a vacuum. She has a gay stepsister. And she still practices this strange brand of Christianity that makes no sense to me. Where is her heart? That's what is missing from this. She literally threw away a family member for being gay. That's what Christians do? I don't get it.
 
Cue Christian bashing in 3...2...
 
Cue Christian bashing in 3...2...

I think it is more criticism of someone claiming to be Christian but doing some very unChristian things.
 
SOLD!!!

B, didn't you know that only some parts of the Bible apply at a time?

Thank you for not disappointing. You can do better than that though. ;)
 
I think there were a few decades when I couldn't grasp the concept of "abba, father" because my earthly example was SUCH a bastard.

It feels like people think they're setting a standard - and they are. It's just not a good one. We're not supposed to put ourselves on the judgement seat of Moses, and point and shame and blame and find fault. We're not supposed to vilify and belittle. We're not supposed to believe we're good Christians, simply because we don't (in our own confused eyes) sin. I don't want to head this thread in too many directions, but if God created you straight, what. Congratulations? But you get to judge those who ... I don't expect anybody to follow me into this sentence, but yes. He created gays.

I was really saddened by that document Michele Bachmann signed today. It was very ugly. And she's not even operating in a vacuum. She has a gay stepsister. And she still practices this strange brand of Christianity that makes no sense to me. Where is her heart? That's what is missing from this. She literally threw away a family member for being gay. That's what Christians do? I don't get it.
What we have is not a failure of christianity, but a failure of people. The weekly "ritual" of going to church on sunday are not what christianity, or any religion in the world for that matter, is about, but ethics. This is why we have a rise of secularism in my opinion. People shouldn't say "look at him! he goes to church, he is religious", people should say "He invites homeless into his home for dinner, he is religious!". Instead, we have simply been taught from birth that all people need to do is believe in Jesus and they will go to heaven, leading to a seeming lack of justice in the creator(all others go to hell for eternity, no matter what? That actually seems rather racist as well). Today, people rarely even practice the movements, they just "believe"(like the demons believe) that jesus is god, while they selfishly and narcissisticaly await his coming to prove their own theology, and hang it over the heads of the "damned". And yet...we ask why secularism is rising in the world?

But you will never hear a sermon on that.
 
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What we have is not a failure of christianity, but a failure of people. The weekly "ritual" of going to church on sunday are not what christianity, or any religion in the world for that matter, is about, but ethics. This is why we have a rise of secularism in my opinion. People shouldn't say "look at him! he goes to church, he is religious", people should say "He invites homeless into his home for dinner, he is religious!". Instead, we have simply been taught from birth that all people need to do is believe in Jesus and they will go to heaven, leading to a seeming lack of justice in the creator(all others go to hell for eternity, no matter what? That actually seems rather racist as well). Today, people rarely even practice the movements, they just "believe"(like the demons believe) that jesus is god, while they selfishly and narcissisticaly await his coming to prove their own theology, and hang it over the heads of the "damned". And yet...we ask why secularism is rising in the world?

But you will never hear a sermon on that.

We should, and we should hear it often.
 
SOLD!!!

B, didn't you know that only some parts of the Bible apply at a time?

Yup, that I do know. But if people are going to call themselves by the name, then should they not expect to be examined?
 
It seems that there a number of people on this forum who believe that criticizing or even questioning Christianity is the same as bashing Christianity.

Some of these people who cry "Christian bashing" on this forum the loudest don't seem to have a problem "bashing" atheism,Islam,homosexuality,science or anything else they don't believe in.

Wahh,wahh,wahh,cry me a river.
 
What we have is not a failure of christianity, but a failure of people. The weekly "ritual" of going to church on sunday are not what christianity, or any religion in the world for that matter, is about, but ethics. This is why we have a rise of secularism in my opinion. People shouldn't say "look at him! he goes to church, he is religious", people should say "He invites homeless into his home for dinner, he is religious!". Instead, we have simply been taught from birth that all people need to do is believe in Jesus and they will go to heaven, leading to a seeming lack of justice in the creator(all others go to hell for eternity, no matter what? That actually seems rather racist as well). Today, people rarely even practice the movements, they just "believe"(like the demons believe) that jesus is god, while they selfishly and narcissisticaly await his coming to prove their own theology, and hang it over the heads of the "damned". And yet...we ask why secularism is rising in the world?

But you will never hear a sermon on that.

Exactly. People beat people up on a daily basis, not just with the Bible, but with God. Hence my thread of a week or so ago, re: Taking God's name in vain. I think telling somebody they're going to hell because they're gay is taking God's name in vain, personally. I think judging a woman whose sandals you will NEVER be in for making a decision you disagree with, is taking God's name in vain. Every time I read such a thing, I think "Straining at gnats and swallowing camels."
 
It seems that there a number of people on this forum who believe that criticizing or even questioning Christianity is the same as bashing Christianity.

Some of these people who cry "Christian bashing" on this forum the loudest don't seem to have a problem "bashing" atheism,Islam,homosexuality,science or anything else they don't believe in.

Exactly.

For instance, form the documentary "For the Bible Tells Me So"; Believers will get all wrapped up in Homosexuality is a sin. The Bible says so.

Okay. The Bible says you should sell all you have, and follow him. Why don't they do that? Why do they eat cheeseburgers? Shellfish? There is a great deal that the Bible speaks against, but they pick and choose and then have the nerve to act surprised when somebody calls them on the contradictions.

My sister is a lesbian. She once asked me if I thought she was going to hell for being a lesbian. I said no. I think you're going to hell because you've turned your back on God. I know there are all manner of Christian gays. And I think it is, as Harvey Milk said, easy to despise when you don't know any gays.

That brings me full circle to Bachmann and her stepsister. People aren't disposable. There's something inherently wrong with saying "God is love, except where you're concerned."
 
Exactly. People beat people up on a daily basis, not just with the Bible, but with God. Hence my thread of a week or so ago, re: Taking God's name in vain. I think telling somebody they're going to hell because they're gay is taking God's name in vain, personally. I think judging a woman whose sandals you will NEVER be in for making a decision you disagree with, is taking God's name in vain. Every time I read such a thing, I think "Straining at gnats and swallowing camels."
I wouldn't necessarily call it taking God's name in vain, since many christians grow up without the ability to face real people and deal with real problems, leading to a religion without wisdom. Though they do sin, they are not solely responsible for their actions. Even the most homophobic christians have homosexuals among them, not because the group is tolerant but because the leaders are hypocrites.
I think the bible makes it clear: "See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the LORD my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.”

I think the reverse is also true, apparantly. If people don't call us "...a wise and understanding people..." It's because we are not. Before people of other faiths/non-faiths follow christianity, christians must take care of themselves first.
 
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I believe that self-criticism should come before the criticism of any others. How can you expect to be wise or even just rational if you can't hold yourself to the same criteria you hold others to. Most people in the world seem to lack this ability. Or they shy away from actually doing it because they are too cowardly to face their own imperfections, and instead ridicule others for any imperfection that they can find.
 
I believe that self-criticism should come before the criticism of any others. How can you expect to be wise or even just rational if you can't hold yourself to the same criteria you hold others to. Most people in the world seem to lack this ability. Or they shy away from actually doing it because they are too cowardly to face their own imperfections, and instead ridicule others for any imperfection that they can find.
"spiritual bullying" is what i like to call it.
 
I call myself a follower of Jesus. I pray for the president. I doubt you can find me bashing him here, though I despise his politics, and dislike the job he's done.

I desire greatly for the fruits of the spirit to increase in my life. I have a long way to go.

There are people on this forum who's politics resonate with my own, but who's communication style does not. And I also find the shallow epithets thrown around to be pretty annoying. But neither side has a monopoly on that junk. And for that matter Christians are FAR from monolithically conservative.

There are also people on this forum who's political viewpoints are quite different than mine, and yet their demeanor causes me to listen to and consider their ideas. And of course there are plenty of annoying one dimensional crap slingers on the left too. Some of them may even be *gasp* Christians.

My Lord has shown me over the years the value of "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control". And I know I need to practice these virtues as best I can even when confronted by seeming idiocy on any side.

At first it sounded like you were just attacking Christians. By the end of the OP you seemed to have specialized a little. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt even though the thread title describes me.

I'll even agree with you that I have seen (not exempting myself) people on my political side of the continuum not practicing the fruits of the spirit. It bugs me too.

But what does it profit us to hate on them?

To be blunt you seem like the sort of person that was burned by highly legalistic religious garbage earlier in life and is still kinda pissed off about it. Could be wrong...
 
"spiritual bullying" is what i like to call it.

That's exactly what it is. It took me getting into a church that believed that Grace was more important than legalism to see what the problem is. I didn't even know how much pressure I was under until the Pastor drew a word picture of not even being able to see the little donkey under all the burdens people kept piling on him. "Do more! Try harder!" "If you do the do's, you won't have time to do the don'ts!" etc. So there's these four little donkey legs splayed out under all the weight, and I burst into tears.

That can't be healthy. >.>
 
But what does it profit us to hate on them?

To be blunt you seem like the sort of person that was burned by highly legalistic religious garbage earlier in life and is still kinda pissed off about it. Could be wrong...

Not hating. <--- I do have to admit, I am sick unto death of people using that as a catch-all phrase for anybody who practices critical thinking. No, I don't hate Michele Bachmann. No, I don't hate Sarah Palin. I am dangerously close to hating John Boehner. And I am not currently hating on the people I described in the first post.

Not pissed, but yes. I came out of a strict fundamentalist, Assembly of God background. My siblings and I were abused to the point of torture, and nobody interceded. The one who did the most damage was in church Sunday morning and night, and Wednesday night, hands in the air and praising God. And she made my life a living hell, so obviously I have some issues going on there, as well. Not least of which was why God allowed the abuse.

I've always been greatly aware of the dichotomy between the people I refer to. I said "You who call yourself by his name" for a reason. People have expectations of Christians. Those who judge pretty much set themselves up to expect the same in return, i.e.: Judge not, lest ye be judged.
 
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